Dead alien found in UFO hotspot in Russia


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Message 1113696 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 1:52:43 UTC - in response to Message 1113529.

To bring this to full circle, my original stipulation was that "Big Brother"...the minders of the "NWO" or which ever entity you choose if you believe such things, would definitely do their upmost and resort to the highest levels of subterfuge to conceal such information from us. Would they be able to perpetuate such a grand scale ruse...probably not for long, but then again, who knows. Humans are by and large a pretty gullible species. Furthermore the probability of their success wouldn't stop them from trying. And though I personally believe some sort of life exists elsewhere in the universe, I know more about how governments around the world have manipulated information to affect political/social change. Wars have been started by sometimes no more than a mere whisper.


... and to bring it back to my original point was that they may try, but there's no way they'd be successful, particularly on such a grand scale.

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Message 1113699 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 1:58:32 UTC - in response to Message 1113547.

There's no indication to believe that such a scenario would happen. Even if such a shift would happen, the governments of our world would not stop it.


They stop it everyday in Russia, Iran, North Korea, China...etc. Example of free news media in countries: Press Freedom Map


Freedom of the press has very little to do with government cover-up conspiracies on such a grand scale as hiding alien beings. It's honestly lunacy to insist otherwise.

Where again did I state they wouldn't lie to me? My premise is that they could not keep something like this a secret no matter how hard they tried.

To actually believe they could is equally as foolish as you suggest it would be to believe they wouldn't lie to us.


They absolutely could, and I believe they are. As rare as life is in our solar system, they would have every reason to keep it a secret if some kind of major evidence was found to say we are not alone. Why airbrush photos of the moon? Or Mars? What is it that they are hiding from the public if it's not something to do with ET or the likes? The government is bent on creating conspiracies and lies. Example: JFK. Probably the only truly real conspiracy to this day.


They absolutely could not, your belief be damned.

They may have "reasons" to keep things secret, but there's just too many real scientists that would call bullshit if they see it in their field.

You're free to take your own photos of the moon or Mars, or whatever else you wish and release your findings. But it's an awful large leap of faith to insist that the photos you get are airbrushed or photoshopped to hide things from us, particularly alien beings.

It's not the government that's bent on creating conspiracies and lies. It's the people who use bad information, bad data, bad science that create conspiracies.

Everyone else just rolls their eyes and walks away.

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Message 1113758 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 6:58:46 UTC - in response to Message 1113699.

You have too much faith in governments. These are the same entities that are spending us into never ending bankruptcy. These are the same people who are living in luxury when their citizens are struggling paycheck to paycheck. these are the same people that overall, don't give a damn about what you or I think of them and what they are doing. These are the same ones who think its ok to tell us what to do and when to do it and how. If you have so much faith in these governments to think they aren't covering up something about space, aliens, UFOs or whatever you can imagine, then you may as well be working for them. Heck, be one of their spokespersons. You are clearly on the right track.
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Message 1113760 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 6:59:47 UTC - in response to Message 1113696.

To bring this to full circle, my original stipulation was that "Big Brother"...the minders of the "NWO" or which ever entity you choose if you believe such things, would definitely do their upmost and resort to the highest levels of subterfuge to conceal such information from us. Would they be able to perpetuate such a grand scale ruse...probably not for long, but then again, who knows. Humans are by and large a pretty gullible species. Furthermore the probability of their success wouldn't stop them from trying. And though I personally believe some sort of life exists elsewhere in the universe, I know more about how governments around the world have manipulated information to affect political/social change. Wars have been started by sometimes no more than a mere whisper.


... and to bring it back to my original point was that they may try, but there's no way they'd be successful, particularly on such a grand scale.


Tell that to the people who believe 9/11 was an inside job.

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Message 1113843 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 12:23:35 UTC - in response to Message 1113758.

You have too much faith in governments.


...and you give them far more credit than they deserve.

If you have so much faith in these governments to think they aren't covering up something about space, aliens, UFOs or whatever you can imagine, then you may as well be working for them. Heck, be one of their spokespersons. You are clearly on the right track.


Your absolute ignorance of my views and equally ignorant commentary is astounding. I'm telling you that the government isn't capable of mass cover-ups because they're made up of the same humans you claim are naive followers, and you claim I have "faith" in them and I should be a spokesperson.

Typical of a conspiracy theorist to be divisive and lash out at those that don't agree with them by accusing them of being "spokespersons".

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Message 1113844 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 12:24:29 UTC - in response to Message 1113760.
Last modified: 6 Jun 2011, 12:25:24 UTC

... and to bring it back to my original point was that they may try, but there's no way they'd be successful, particularly on such a grand scale.


Tell that to the people who believe 9/11 was an inside job.


I've tried, but I believe Bobby over in the Politics forum has done a rather fine job of proving their beliefs are misplaced.

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Message 1113871 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 13:55:37 UTC - in response to Message 1113844.
Last modified: 6 Jun 2011, 14:05:47 UTC

... and to bring it back to my original point was that they may try, but there's no way they'd be successful, particularly on such a grand scale.


Tell that to the people who believe 9/11 was an inside job.


I've tried, but I believe Bobby over in the Politics forum has done a rather fine job of proving their beliefs are misplaced.


I incredibly doubt that. There are far too many unanswered questions. Not to mention I doubt a single person can "prove" that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. I for one don't believe most of what the government has said in regards to 9/11 as a lot of what they said makes no sense given the evidence behind it. But that is off topic. Point is: The government(s) tell people what they want to hear, and because the vast majority of the people on the planet are not so open minded, (which seems to me the category you are falling into at the moment), they will believe anything they tell them. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and talks like one, then its not a cat.

EDIT: Please direct me to the thread where "bobby" says people's thoughts are misplaced. I would like to enter my 2 cents.
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Message 1113873 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 14:01:50 UTC - in response to Message 1113843.
Last modified: 6 Jun 2011, 14:05:32 UTC

...and you give them far more credit than they deserve.


I give them very little credit in terms of space and what not. Why? What replaces the shuttles when they are gone? So far: nothing. So lets retire the fleet and then beg the Russians to take our people to space all the time until NASA can get their fingers out of their noses?

Your absolute ignorance of my views and equally ignorant commentary is astounding. I'm telling you that the government isn't capable of mass cover-ups because they're made up of the same humans you claim are naive followers, and you claim I have "faith" in them and I should be a spokesperson.

Typical of a conspiracy theorist to be divisive and lash out at those that don't agree with them by accusing them of being "spokespersons".


I never accused you of being a government spokesperson. I said with the commentary you are trying to feed me, and are expecting me to believe is just like what a gov't spokesperson would do.

To think the government is not capable of conspiracies or capable of covering up certain situations is typical of what 90% of the world's population thinks. And because of that, we will continue to elect fraudulent politicians to spend us more into oblivion, take our jobs and rights away and completely ignore the people once they are in power. You may not agree with me and that's ok. But don't sit here and try to tell me what is and what isn't and expect me to believe you or agree with you either.
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Message 1113878 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 14:10:55 UTC - in response to Message 1113871.

I incredibly doubt that. There are far too many unanswered questions. Not to mention I doubt a single person can "prove" that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. I for one don't believe most of what the government has said in regards to 9/11 as a lot of what they said makes no sense given the evidence behind it. But that is off topic. Point is: The government(s) tell people what they want to hear, and because the vast majority of the people on the planet are not so open minded, (which seems to me the category you are falling into at the moment), they will believe anything they tell them. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and talks like one, then its not a cat.

EDIT: Please direct me to the thread where "bobby" says people's thoughts are misplaced. I would like to enter my 2 cents.


You doubt things just for the sake of doubting, because you'd rather believe that there's some conductor orchestrating all the chaos than to actually understand the world isn't as neat as you think it is.

You'll have to ask the Moderators to unlock the thread, and it's a rather long one, but you can read the entire thing here.

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Message 1113880 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 14:19:44 UTC - in response to Message 1113878.

I incredibly doubt that. There are far too many unanswered questions. Not to mention I doubt a single person can "prove" that 9/11 wasn't an inside job. I for one don't believe most of what the government has said in regards to 9/11 as a lot of what they said makes no sense given the evidence behind it. But that is off topic. Point is: The government(s) tell people what they want to hear, and because the vast majority of the people on the planet are not so open minded, (which seems to me the category you are falling into at the moment), they will believe anything they tell them. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and talks like one, then its not a cat.

EDIT: Please direct me to the thread where "bobby" says people's thoughts are misplaced. I would like to enter my 2 cents.


You doubt things just for the sake of doubting, because you'd rather believe that there's some conductor orchestrating all the chaos than to actually understand the world isn't as neat as you think it is.

You'll have to ask the Moderators to unlock the thread, and it's a rather long one, but you can read the entire thing here.


I doubt things because it's human to do so. Science isn't a perfect system, and what science proves or disproves changes over time when new discoveries are made. If humans stopped doubting the governments or science, then we have failed as a whole. It's that simple really.

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Message 1113884 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 14:32:56 UTC - in response to Message 1113873.
Last modified: 6 Jun 2011, 14:39:16 UTC

...and you give them far more credit than they deserve.


I give them very little credit in terms of space and what not.


I give them very little credit for nearly everything they do, which is why it's laughable that you would suggest I have "faith" in our government.

The very fact that our government is so incomprehensibly, mind boggingly inept, it blows my mind that anyone can actually believe they have it in them to hide complex things from the American public for any amount of time.

Your absolute ignorance of my views and equally ignorant commentary is astounding. I'm telling you that the government isn't capable of mass cover-ups because they're made up of the same humans you claim are naive followers, and you claim I have "faith" in them and I should be a spokesperson.

Typical of a conspiracy theorist to be divisive and lash out at those that don't agree with them by accusing them of being "spokespersons".


I never accused you of being a government spokesperson. I said with the commentary you are trying to feed me, and are expecting me to believe is just like what a gov't spokesperson would do.


I'm not expecting you to believe anything. I'm simply arguing against your insistence that our goverment somehow controls every fact we believe, and that only people who question our goverment with wild theories must be the Truth Believers.

Just like every other conspiracy theoriest I've ever come across, you use what George Carlin called "spooky language" in an attempt to control a potention "believer's" thought process by forewarning them of "falling into the wrong thought processes", "eating the lies fed by [insert opposition's views here]", and insisting only "gullible" people believe that our government only tells us the "truth", as if to suggest that simply because one doesn't believe in the conspiracy theories, they're somehow part of the consortium. Absolute absurdity at its finest.

To think the government is not capable of conspiracies or capable of covering up certain situations is typical of what 90% of the world's population thinks. And because of that, we will continue to elect fraudulent politicians to spend us more into oblivion, take our jobs and rights away and completely ignore the people once they are in power. You may not agree with me and that's ok. But don't sit here and try to tell me what is and what isn't and expect me to believe you or agree with you either.


After that little speech, you actually expect me to believe you and your opposite claims?

I honestly don't care if you "believe" me. You're free to believe in whatever crackpot theories you wish.

But to actually equate the nation's fiscal issues, and politician's natural corruption of power, and their constant big-brothering of the American people is somehow the same as hiding proof of alien beings and spaceships, or JFK's assination conspiracy is absolutely ludacrous.

I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in your logic and understanding, and concluding that your claims are baseless, unfounded, and fantastically absurd. Like any conspiracy theorist, your ideas operate in the realm of suspended logic, lack of actual facts, circumstantial evidence, and personal testimony from the very same group of unsophisticated human beings you claim are somehow part of the truth.

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Message 1113885 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 14:37:55 UTC - in response to Message 1113880.

You doubt things just for the sake of doubting, because you'd rather believe that there's some conductor orchestrating all the chaos than to actually understand the world isn't as neat as you think it is.

You'll have to ask the Moderators to unlock the thread, and it's a rather long one, but you can read the entire thing here.


I doubt things because it's human to do so. Science isn't a perfect system, and what science proves or disproves changes over time when new discoveries are made. If humans stopped doubting the governments or science, then we have failed as a whole. It's that simple really.


There's reasonable doubt, and then there's conspiracy doubt. There is nothing wrong with doubt itself. Its in how far you take that doubt and what lengths you're willing to go just to have doubt, despite any human's inability to have a deep level of understanding on every topic imaginable, then concluding that it must be lies and untruth because it doesn't make sense to your unsophisticated view - even if you're an intelligent person.

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Message 1113889 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 14:47:19 UTC - in response to Message 1113884.

I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in your logic and understanding, and concluding that your claims are baseless, unfounded, and fantastically absurd. Like any conspiracy theorist, your ideas operate in the realm of suspended logic, lack of actual facts, circumstantial evidence, and personal testimony from the very same group of unsophisticated human beings you claim are somehow part of the truth.


Oh but you are. You are trying to tell me the governments are not capable of such manipulations. You have given me no facts, simply your opinion. You then try to tell me that 'bobby' "proved" 9/11 wasn't an inside job...one person. Highly unlikely that one person can debunk such claims.

Governments have endless cash, endless power and endless influence. I will not believe for a single second that any government is NOT capable of hiding the truth. It is quite simple and has been stated before: To keep the peace and stability and to keep those wealthy people in power while most of their own citizens suffer at the hands of the decisions they make everyday. So yes you are trying to "sell me" your opinion as being 100% fact. It is not. They created their own conspiracy with JFK and to think they cannot do it again is absurd. Conspiracies are not created by "crackpots" but by people that see evidence that points to a totally different answer than what the governments feed us. I do believe they are hiding a lot more from us about space and other such things that have to do with it. There are too many unanswered questions. And in regards to your earlier post on looking at the moon myself or Mars, if it were that easy, then why hasn't anyone else actually done it? We cannot see all of the moon from a simple telescope in my backyard or for that matter Mars. If there is nothing to hide then why do they hide it? If "there is nothing to see here" then why even airbrush out images from such places? If you cannot tell a photoshopped image from a real one then that's fine. But if you want to believe everything they tell you then that's fine too. I am not here to change your mind, but to just point out the flaws in your logic as well.
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Message 1113920 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 15:27:20 UTC - in response to Message 1113889.

I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in your logic and understanding, and concluding that your claims are baseless, unfounded, and fantastically absurd. Like any conspiracy theorist, your ideas operate in the realm of suspended logic, lack of actual facts, circumstantial evidence, and personal testimony from the very same group of unsophisticated human beings you claim are somehow part of the truth.


Oh but you are. You are trying to tell me the governments are not capable of such manipulations. You have given me no facts, simply your opinion.


You haven't given any supportive facts for your claims either. Only the aforementioned supended logic, circumstantial evidence, and the personal testimony of others.

That logic is as absurd as the "prove God exists/doesn't exist" argument. The burden of proof falls on the claimee - you. You claim that our government is capable of such obfuscation, yet your evidence is as you quoted above.

You then try to tell me that 'bobby' "proved" 9/11 wasn't an inside job...one person. Highly unlikely that one person can debunk such claims.


Did you even read the thread? The very fact that you can't believe Bobby did such a fabulous job of providing actual facts to back up the claims put out by our government means you're simply unwilling to let go of the conspiracy doubt you hold onto so dear.

What I told you was that Bobby did a fine job of proving that people who believe in 9/11 being an inside job have their beliefs misplaced. It's up to you to either accept the facts or question further.

And you're upset because "one person" was able to do this? You're the one with the religious quote in your signature.

Governments have endless cash, endless power and endless influence.


And an endless supply of stupidity, ineptitude, and lack of real co-ordination.

I will not believe for a single second that any government is NOT capable of hiding the truth.


Sounds absolutist. So despite any evidence given, even if not from me, you would still not believe it? If not, that's the very logic (or lack thereof) of a conspiracy nut.

So yes you are trying to "sell me" your opinion as being 100% fact. It is not.


You seem to struggle with the difference between disproving one's theories as fact and providing fact itself.

You claim empirically that what I am saying is not "fact", and therefore you attempt to empirically claim it must therefore be opinion. You also claim that I have provided no evidence to support my "opinion", which is, of course, backwards because again, it is the claimee that needs to prove themselves and their ideas.

Conspiracies are not created by "crackpots" but by people that see evidence...


...that they can't possibly be sophisticated enough to interpret in a meaningful manner, or instead use half-truths spread by others who are just as unsophisticated.

Why are conspiracy believers always laymen and never top scientists, philosophers, or genious level individuals? Because they're smart enough to know and interpret fact, or actually have trust in friends that do.

There are too many unanswered questions.


Because you haven't learned to ask the right questions, or learned enough about the answers given to understand them.

And in regards to your earlier post on looking at the moon myself or Mars, if it were that easy, then why hasn't anyone else actually done it?


I never claimed it would be easy. All I said was that people are free to do it themselves and look for their own answers. Hopefully they're smart enough to be able to interpret what it is they're looking at. There's a reason why it takes a lot to be a scientist.

We cannot see all of the moon from a simple telescope in my backyard or for that matter Mars. If there is nothing to hide then why do they hide it?


They're not hiding the moon or Mars. It's up to you to come up with creative ways to see all of them just like NASA did.

If "there is nothing to see here" then why even airbrush out images from such places? If you cannot tell a photoshopped image from a real one then that's fine. But if you want to believe everything they tell you then that's fine too.


Most photos are available untouched. It's only a conspiracy theorist that thinks that certain artifacts must be evidence of doctoring to "hide" something.

I am not here to change your mind, but to just point out the flaws in your logic as well.


I'm still waiting for it. Methinks my logic isn't nearly as flawed as you'd like to believe, simply because it contradicts your own very solidly.

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Message 1113922 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 15:34:52 UTC - in response to Message 1113920.
Last modified: 6 Jun 2011, 15:35:46 UTC

And you're upset because "one person" was able to do this? You're the one with the religious quote in your signature.


Read the quote. Read it carefully. Religious it might be, but its there for a reason: It contradicts what people believe of the Bible and 'god':

By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command...: The Bible leads us to believe God created everything we see touch etc. So those who have faith in the Bible believe that and that because God said "let there be light" that suddenly the sun appeared out of thin air.

...so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Then proceeds to say that everything that was created was not made out of what we see, feel etc. You cannot make something from nothing. Hey...I didn't write it. It's there. See for yourself. I can pick out a few hundred if you like and we can discuss that too.

Now you can pick apart my thread posts line by line if you want. But stop trying to convince me that you are so totally right. I have my beliefs on my government and their actions and the agencies associated with them. They will not change nor will yours. That's fine. But don't insult me because I refuse to accept what you say as fact.
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Message 1113937 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 16:04:39 UTC - in response to Message 1113922.

And you're upset because "one person" was able to do this? You're the one with the religious quote in your signature.


Read the quote. Read it carefully.


Oh, I read it and fully understood it. You still haven't read that thread I pointed you to. I gave you proof in the form of a link to another conversation where "a single person" did an excellent job of backing up their statements with proof and the most you can do is bawk at the fact that one person did it.

But you're right. "One person" didn't do it. Bobby merely did the research and made himself sophisticated enough to understand the evidence. Other people actually did the scientific work of verifying the governments claims to make sure they were accurate.

Now you can pick apart my thread posts line by line if you want. But stop trying to convince me that you are so totally right. I have my beliefs on my government and their actions and the agencies associated with them. They will not change nor will yours. That's fine. But don't insult me because I refuse to accept what you say as fact.


That's the difference between you and me. I am willing to change my views given enough actual peer-reviewed evidence. I am willing to accept when I'm wrong, if I'm actually wrong, based upon actual proven facts.

You state definitively that your views will not change, indicating that you are not open to discussion about the evidence and your mind has already been made up.

But one thing you need to understand, is that I never preemtively and purposefully insult people, though many of the things I say are very challenging and people interpret them as insulting.

Again, you're free to believe whatever you want as "fact", but apparently we have two different ideas of what makes up "fact" in the first place. I prefer to rely on advancing my understanding of the world around me through education and peer-review, while a conspiracy nut simply wants to believe in "unseen powers" controlling everything around us through half-truths and lack of understanding.

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Message 1113946 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 16:23:27 UTC - in response to Message 1113937.

Again, you're free to believe whatever you want as "fact", but apparently we have two different ideas of what makes up "fact" in the first place. I prefer to rely on advancing my understanding of the world around me through education and peer-review, while a conspiracy nut simply wants to believe in "unseen powers" controlling everything around us through half-truths and lack of understanding.


You keep calling me a conspiracy nut. Based on what? That I believe the government is doing more harm than good? That they don't give a crap about what the people think? That they have more power and money to do as they please without giving a thought as to how it effects us? That I think they do a good job at covering up details of situations just so we as a people will re elect them? The government is not "unseen." What they do everyday with our money and our lives is criminal enough for me to believe that yes they are very much capable at covering up a given situation to suit their needs and no one elses. I too am for peer-review and education. I have done my own research on 9/11 and I am not convinced one way or another. I have also done my research on images NASA sends us that have been clearly airbrushed or portions removed or altered in some form or another. So for me to sit back and be convinced they are not hiding something is, in my opinion is ridiculous. Take the video that started this thread as an example: Everyone believed it to be fake because of what? That's right...a government run, owned and funded news agency said it was and everyone took that to be what you would call "the truth." I am not stupid and I know the plausible explanation is that it's a fake. But to simply take the Russian government's word for it is as closed minded as anyone can get. To think that our government or anyone elses isn't covering something up about UFOs etc is just being closed minded. There is too much evidence of several UFO incidents that simply cannot be explained away by what the government tells us. The Phoenix lights and the Roswell incident in the 50's to name a couple. We obviously know the government takes UFOs seriously enough to the point that they have Project Bluebook. I don't have to prove myself. You are capable of doing your own research on these subjects, so go forth. I was never trying to prove anything other than the government has before created conspiracies and coverups so there is no reason to suggest they aren't doing it now or won't do it again.
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Message 1113977 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 17:22:28 UTC - in response to Message 1113946.
Last modified: 6 Jun 2011, 17:29:04 UTC

Again, you're free to believe whatever you want as "fact", but apparently we have two different ideas of what makes up "fact" in the first place. I prefer to rely on advancing my understanding of the world around me through education and peer-review, while a conspiracy nut simply wants to believe in "unseen powers" controlling everything around us through half-truths and lack of understanding.


You keep calling me a conspiracy nut. Based on what?


I never called you a conspiracy nut, just like you never said I was a spokesperson for the government.

What they do everyday with our money and our lives is criminal enough for me to believe that yes they are very much capable at covering up a given situation to suit their needs and no one elses.


Then you give them far too much credit, and you don't give enough credit to those who would get involved if they felt the government were in the business of obfuscation of facts.

I have done my own research on 9/11 and I am not convinced one way or another.


Then perhaps you should get together with Bobby and perhaps he can help you.

I have also done my research on images NASA sends us that have been clearly airbrushed or portions removed or altered in some form or another.


By who's understanding are they "clearly airbrushed" or "altered"? What is their credibility amongst their peers?

Take the video that started this thread as an example: Everyone believed it to be fake because of what? That's right...a government run, owned and funded news agency said it was and everyone took that to be what you would call "the truth." I am not stupid and I know the plausible explanation is that it's a fake. But to simply take the Russian government's word for it is as closed minded as anyone can get.


How do you know "everyone" believed it was a fake solely because the government said so? How do not you know that people might believe it to be a fake because they are actually sophisticated enough to understand a fake when they see it?

If you are not stupid and know the plausible explanation is that it is a fake, then what makes you qualified to make such generlization about everyone else's intelligence?

By the way, taking any government at their word would be gullible, not close-minded. Close-minded is saying things like "I won't believe for a second..." or "My views won't change".

To think that our government or anyone elses isn't covering something up about UFOs etc is just being closed minded.


To actually believe our government is covering up the existence of aliens or alien spacecraft classified as UFOs is naive.

I don't know how I could be open-minded enough to change my mind based upon factual evidence, yet be considered close-minded because I don't believe the goverment is coordinated enough to pull of hiding such major discoveries from all of mankind.

There is too much evidence of several UFO incidents that simply cannot be explained away by what the government tells us.


So don't believe what the government tells us. Believe the sophisticated scientists who actually verify the claims.

The Phoenix lights and the Roswell incident in the 50's to name a couple.


Both incidents have been well debunked by scientists - not just based on claims from our government. The fact that you bring stuff up like this is why I say you're leaning toward the nutty conspiracy theorist side.

We obviously know the government takes UFOs seriously enough to the point that they have Project Bluebook.


The government is made up of humans, and if there's any reason to fear the unknown and attempt to be prepared for it, they will start any project at all. Just because the government may start a project, doesn't mean it gives credibility to any claims of knowlege of existence.

I don't have to prove myself.


Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist.

You are capable of doing your own research on these subjects, so go forth.


I have, and I have concluded that there is no credible reason to believe aliens have ever visited our planet in the recent or distant past, or ever.

I was never trying to prove anything other than the government has before created conspiracies and coverups so there is no reason to suggest they aren't doing it now or won't do it again.


And the only thing I'm trying to tell you is that the government isn't nearly as powerful and coordinated as you seem to believe. You keep saying the governments are the one that "feed us lies", so then remove the government from the equation and go to the professionals who understand the evidence. But I suppose if they say the same thing as what the government said, then it must still be a cover-up, right? I mean, the government doesn't turn to scientists to find out what things are before releasing statements to the public beforehand, do they?

I've seen government workers, and they're just not smart enough to pull such mass obfuscation off.

PS - I'm not trying to "pick apart" your posts. You write so much that there's a lot to address. I break them down to smaller parts so that I can address them properly.

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Message 1114038 - Posted: 6 Jun 2011, 19:35:33 UTC - in response to Message 1113977.

from Wikipedia on Project Bluebook
I think it is pretty clear that they found no evidence of anything that wasn't explainable by normal human or natural occurances

Project Blue Book had two goals:

1.to determine if UFOs were a threat to national security, and
2.to scientifically analyze UFO-related data.
Thousands of UFO reports were collected, analyzed and filed. As the result of the Condon Report, which concluded there was nothing anomalous about UFOs, Project Blue Book was ordered shut down in December 1969 and the Air Force continues to provide the following summary of its investigations:

1.No UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force was ever an indication of threat to our national security;
2.There was no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as "unidentified" represented technological developments or principles beyond the range of modern scientific knowledge; and
3.There was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicles.[1]

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Message 1114144 - Posted: 7 Jun 2011, 3:17:12 UTC - in response to Message 1113977.

My beliefs on 9/11 are my beliefs. They are not going to change because someone tells me otherwise, 'Bobby' or no bobby. Evidence speaks for itself and there are too many unanswered questions. I give as little credit to the government as possible. I stand by my statement that they are filthy rich people with all the power we give them. As a whole they don't care about the people, only their well being and the acceleration of their power and influence. They lie, cheat, steal and think that because they are part of the "government" it gives them the right to do so. I see my dollars wasted away on useless bills and funding for projects that never happen. I see them evading taxes and having encounters with mistresses all under MY hard earned and paid tax dollars. My opinion on them still stands. if they can do all that, get reelected and still hold office, then they are smart enough to feed us lies about the simplest things. If you don't want to see that, then that's fine. but do try to change my beliefs on how messed up they really are because you refuse to believe my stance. We will have to agree to disagree.
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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

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