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Message 1094314 - Posted: 7 Apr 2011, 15:33:36 UTC - in response to Message 1094304.  
Last modified: 7 Apr 2011, 15:34:38 UTC

BTW, what temps are typical for Core2 E6420? I see ~65C and run TThrottle to not go too higher... BOINC only on 50% CPU...


	 
Intel Core 2 Duo 	 
  	 
Intel core 2 Duo (Conroe E4300, E4400, E6300, E6400) 	61.4°C
Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe E4500, E4600, E4700) 	73.3°C
Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe E6320, E6420, E6540, E6550, E6600, E6700, E6750, E6850) 	60.1°C
Intel Core 2 Duo (Wolfdale) 	72.4°C
Mobile Core 2 Duo 	100°C
  	 
Intel Core 2 Extreme 	 
  	 
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Conroe) 	60.4°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Kentsfield Q6700) 	71°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Kentsfield Q6600) 	62.2°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Kentsfield QX6700, QX6850) 	64.5°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Kentsfield QX6800) 	54.8°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Yorkfiled Q9300, Q9450, Q9550) 	71.4°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Yorkfield QX9650) 	64.5°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Yorkfield QX9770) 	55.5°C
Intel Core 2 Extreme (Hypertown QX9775) 	63°C



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Message 1094320 - Posted: 7 Apr 2011, 15:51:02 UTC - in response to Message 1094304.  

BTW, what temps are typical for Core2 E6420? I see ~65C and run TThrottle to not go too higher... BOINC only on 50% CPU...

Is that CPU temp or CPU core temp? As Mike stated CPU temp limit should be 60.1ºC. If I remember correctly core temps are allowed up to 90ºC, but should probably double check that.
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Message 1094324 - Posted: 7 Apr 2011, 16:01:13 UTC - in response to Message 1094320.  

BTW, what temps are typical for Core2 E6420? I see ~65C and run TThrottle to not go too higher... BOINC only on 50% CPU...

Is that CPU temp or CPU core temp? As Mike stated CPU temp limit should be 60.1ºC. If I remember correctly core temps are allowed up to 90ºC, but should probably double check that.

It's temp that TThrottle shows....
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Message 1094351 - Posted: 7 Apr 2011, 16:56:50 UTC - in response to Message 1094324.  

BTW, what temps are typical for Core2 E6420? I see ~65C and run TThrottle to not go too higher... BOINC only on 50% CPU...

Is that CPU temp or CPU core temp? As Mike stated CPU temp limit should be 60.1ºC. If I remember correctly core temps are allowed up to 90ºC, but should probably double check that.

It's temp that TThrottle shows....

I am not sure what TThrottle is displaying. It says core temp but that does not seem to be the same as other software displays. Thermal software comparison.
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Message 1094579 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 4:13:18 UTC - in response to Message 1094351.  
Last modified: 8 Apr 2011, 4:43:05 UTC

BTW, what temps are typical for Core2 E6420? I see ~65C and run TThrottle to not go too higher... BOINC only on 50% CPU...

Is that CPU temp or CPU core temp? As Mike stated CPU temp limit should be 60.1ºC. If I remember correctly core temps are allowed up to 90ºC, but should probably double check that.

It's temp that TThrottle shows....

I am not sure what TThrottle is displaying. It says core temp but that does not seem to be the same as other software displays. Thermal software comparison.


Core Temp and TThrottle read the same (internal in the CPU core) sensor.
The value that sensor gives is offset from TjMax.

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/howitworks.html

"Intel defines a certain Tjunction temperature for the processor. This value is usually in the range between 85°C and 105°C.
In the later generation of processors, starting with Nehalem, the exact Tjunction Max value is available for software to read in an MSR (short for Model Specific Register).
A different MSR contains the temperature data. The data is represented as a Delta in °C between current temperature and Tjunction.

So the actual temperature is calculated like this 'Core Temp = Tjunction - Delta'"


So the program must know the right TjMax
In your case TThrottle thinks the TjMax is 100ºC (so the temps shown are 15ºC higher!)

There is setting in TThrottle (Expert tab) to manually change the TjMax if you are confident that it have to be 85ºC


Since particular program may be wrong it is good to use several programs (as you do):
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=59292

Processor Electrical Specifications (V, A, W, ºC)
http://mysite.verizon.net/pchardwarelinks/elec.htm


 


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Message 1094603 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 6:25:05 UTC

Hm, why TThrottle not read corresponding MSR for correct Tjunction value?...
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Message 1094836 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 19:48:34 UTC - in response to Message 1094603.  

Hm, why TThrottle not read corresponding MSR for correct Tjunction value?...

It does, but this is a relative value.
And.... Intel doesn't document the Tjunction setpoint that is normally 100C.
But there are few CPU's that use 85C or 105C.
Some CPU's may have defective temperature chips, or they may be a bit off.
The best way is, to check the case temperature. TThrottle reports the die temperature and that should be close to 5C higher.
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Message 1094858 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 20:29:59 UTC - in response to Message 1094836.  


So you say TThrottle reads both MSRs?

"In the later generation of processors, starting with Nehalem, the exact Tjunction Max value is available for software to read in an MSR (short for Model Specific Register).

A different MSR contains the temperature data. The data is represented as a Delta in °C between current temperature and Tjunction."


 


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Message 1094859 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 20:31:05 UTC - in response to Message 1094836.  

It would be convenient then if TThrottle could report case temp too for comparison. All needed tools in one app :)
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Message 1094866 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 20:42:07 UTC - in response to Message 1094858.  


1) So you say TThrottle reads both MSRs?

2) "In the later generation of processors, starting with Nehalem, the exact Tjunction Max value is available for software to read in an MSR (short for Model Specific Register).

1) All MSR's depending on the nr of real cores.
2) Must check.
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Message 1094867 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 20:43:04 UTC - in response to Message 1094859.  

It would be convenient then if TThrottle could report case temp too for comparison. All needed tools in one app :)

Way too much work.

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Message 1094868 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 20:44:02 UTC - in response to Message 1094859.  

It would be convenient then if TThrottle could report case temp too for comparison. All needed tools in one app :)


SIV 'System Information Viewer' reports both temps (and many other values)
http://www.rh-software.com/

It is hard to implement as the program have to know many different sensor chips used on motherboards.

And every motherboard uses somehow proprietary solution (connects sensor chip's inputs to different hardware)
- there is no standard AFAIK for how the different sensor chips have to be used/connected on motherboards.


 


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Message 1094869 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 20:50:37 UTC - in response to Message 1094866.  

So you say TThrottle reads both MSRs?

By "both MSRs" I mean:

A) MSR containing Tjunction Max (one constant value for the given CPU)
B) MSR (or MSRs if many cores) containing Delta/offset to TjMax (dynamic value(s))


 


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Message 1094876 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 21:04:47 UTC - in response to Message 1094869.  
Last modified: 8 Apr 2011, 21:05:37 UTC


A) MSR containing Tjunction Max (one constant value for the given CPU)

No, but I will try to implementation it in one of the new releases.
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Message 1094879 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 21:11:12 UTC

My motherboard reports case temperature. When I started using TThrottle on this rig, I had to adjust the Tjunction at high load so that TThrottle reported the same temperature as the motherboard. I ended up with 85°C as pointed out earlier. The two only match up at high load, which is exactly what I want. I never have to worry about my 980 CPU overheating, even at over 4.2 GHz of over clock. This is a wonderful tool, and I consider it a necessity.

Thank you Fred!

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Message 1094912 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 22:04:26 UTC - in response to Message 1094879.  

My motherboard reports case temperature.

In which program?
Does program say "CPU case temperature" and which sensor (e.g. Winbond) it uses for reading?

When I started using TThrottle on this rig, I had to adjust the Tjunction at high load so that TThrottle reported the same temperature as the motherboard. I ended up with 85°C as pointed out earlier. The two only match up at high load, which is exactly what I want.

As you use Intel CPU - Intel defines Tjunction Max temperature
(which is the Max allowed internal in-the-CPU-core temperature).

You have to use that (not CPU case temperature) as TThrottle reads exactly that internal in-the-CPU-core temperature
and Intel wants exactly that internal in-the-CPU-core temperature to not exceed the Intel-defined Tjunction Max temperature.

CoreTemp and TThrottle have to show the same values at all temperatures as they read the same value.

Use e.g. this site to check the Tjunction Max of your CPU (Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU X 980 @ 3.33GHz):
Processor Electrical Specifications (V, A, W, ºC)
http://mysite.verizon.net/pchardwarelinks/elec.htm


(AMD defines Mac CPU case temperature)


 


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Message 1094918 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 22:13:00 UTC

Its an ASUS Rampage 2 Extreme, and I use the LCD display that came with it. The results are the same as what Asus Probe reports, but with the LCD display, I don't need the overhead of Asus Probe. In earlier motherboards with Asus Probe, within 10 seconds of starting to crunch, Asus Probe let out audible warnings that I was overheating. This was with stock cooling, and at stock speeds. It was that that drove me to water cooling, as I know how imoportant keeping the temperatures down is. At the moment I am running at 4.2 GHz, with my coolant temperature showing 14.4°C, and the LCD display reporting my CPU temp at 51°C.

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Message 1094926 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 22:25:59 UTC

That's a good site BilBg! Here is what I found for my processor. Thank you for that info!

Core i7
(Gulftown)
Socket 1366 Core
Voltage Vmax Max. Core Amp. Thermal Design Power Max. Cover Temp.

Core i7 980X
(6-core 3.33GHz - 6x 256KB - 12MB L3) ?V
(0.8V~1.3V) 1.4V 145A 130W 67.9° C

I knew about the 67.9°C cover temp, and that's what I adjusted to. This has been running at these speeds for about a year. My core voltage is 1.482 according to CPU-Z. The BIOS core voltage is set to 1.45 VDC

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Message 1094930 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 22:36:27 UTC - in response to Message 1094918.  
Last modified: 8 Apr 2011, 22:39:32 UTC


I took the time to check now and see that Intel changed the way it defines the Max temp for Core i7 CPUs to Max. Cover Temp. (the same AMD used/use)
(or maybe Intel now defines both Max. Cover Temp. and TjMax?)






 


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Message 1094941 - Posted: 8 Apr 2011, 23:17:32 UTC - in response to Message 1094926.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2011, 0:09:46 UTC

I knew about the 67.9°C cover temp

I wonder how they come with values such as 67.9°C - did they expect that if CPU cover temp becomes 68.0°C the CPU will explode?? :)

My CPU (AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3500+, Athlon 64 3500+ (Orleans) [DH-F2])
have (AMD defined) Max CPU case temperature of 70°C

In TThrottle (Expert tab) is shown/used the default [70°C] "Tjunction Temperature"

(TThrottle says I can raise this (manually) +5 to 75°C - as 70°C is the Max CPU case temperature and it is expected that when the CPU case is at 70°C the internal temperature will be e.g. 75°C
I didn't change the default [70°C] (AMD CPUs temperature reading is not affected by setting of TjMax - the formula to calculate the "real" temperature of CPU core do not use TjMax value))

I use the starting point for Temperature Throttle ("Set Core") of 55°C (air stock cooling - "Box" CPU bundle (CPU + AMD labeled Fan/Heatsink))




What value do you use for "Set Core"? (in case e.g. cooling pump dies)


Edit:
And run Core Temp and Real Temp:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=59292

... see what they report for TjMax and set that value in TThrottle

! If TThrottle do not know the right TjMax it can't calculate the right CPU core temperature!
E.g.: if you now have set in TThrottle TjMax=80 (I don't know the proper/needed value) and TThrottle shows the CPU cores at about 51°C
if you set TjMax=60 then TThrottle will show 31°C and will think the CPU is very cool.
So set the right value for TjMax! (it is NOT 67.9°C !)

(TThrottle can't read the sensor on the mainboard that measures the external socket/CPU case temperature!)


 


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