Ancient Aliens - What's the proof?


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Profile Johnney Guinness
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Message 1092567 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 9:11:20 UTC - in response to Message 1092235.
Last modified: 2 Apr 2011, 9:12:22 UTC

Are you trying to use satire with that comment and that image?

Yes, i am!

Mankind has thousands of scientists studying the cosmos, we have spent billions of dollars looking at the sky. Officially we have never seen any confirmed life outside Earth.

Maybe we should look closer to home. We might find what we are looking for.

John.

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Message 1092569 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 9:17:33 UTC - in response to Message 1092567.

Aliens have visited but they just don't understand us !!

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Message 1092572 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 9:23:04 UTC - in response to Message 1092569.

Daddio has the reason why we haven't seen any aliens well in hand.



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Message 1092576 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 9:37:52 UTC

Love those Daddio's Bill!

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Message 1092578 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 9:51:13 UTC - in response to Message 1092567.

Are you trying to use satire with that comment and that image?

Yes, i am!

Mankind has thousands of scientists studying the cosmos, we have spent billions of dollars looking at the sky. Officially we have never seen any confirmed life outside Earth.

Maybe we should look closer to home. We might find what we are looking for.

John.


So, again, we see something that we haven't fully explained (pyramids) and we want to reach for the most fantastic answer that doesn't have any supporting evidence, and you want us to match our observations with the data instead of having the data lead us to the answers?

Don't you think that if there was anything to the theories, we'd be making landmark discoveries about it already? It's not simply a matter of not looking. We have, and there's nothing alien about it or anything else here on Earth.

It's just as fanciful to say God made them because we can't come up with a better answer yet.

No, the pyramids weren't created by alien beings and we're not their ancestors. Though there's a good chance that life was started here on Earth due to some living organisms on a comet crashing into earth and evolving over time.

Please don't allow yourself to be pulled into the escapism and fantasy of a few fevered imaginations who are able to put it together into a show and put on a channel that tries to pass itself off as authoritative in documentaries. We need more people grounded in reality and not off chasing Unicorns because we found a fossil with an extra appendage.

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Message 1092732 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 18:44:57 UTC - in response to Message 1092578.
Last modified: 2 Apr 2011, 19:25:08 UTC

So, again, we see something that we haven't fully explained (pyramids) and we want to reach for the most fantastic answer that doesn't have any supporting evidence, and you want us to match our observations with the data instead of having the data lead us to the answers?

Don't you think that if there was anything to the theories, we'd be making landmark discoveries about it already? It's not simply a matter of not looking. We have, and there's nothing alien about it or anything else here on Earth.

It's just as fanciful to say God made them because we can't come up with a better answer yet.

No, the pyramids weren't created by alien beings and we're not their ancestors. Though there's a good chance that life was started here on Earth due to some living organisms on a comet crashing into earth and evolving over time.

Please don't allow yourself to be pulled into the escapism and fantasy of a few fevered imaginations who are able to put it together into a show and put on a channel that tries to pass itself off as authoritative in documentaries. We need more people grounded in reality and not off chasing Unicorns because we found a fossil with an extra appendage.

Look, you make a really good point, its a very important point, and i agree completely. Let me tell you exactly why i started this thread in the first place.

I have been posting messages in this SETI science forum since 2006, thats about 5 years now. Anyone who reads the messages i post here must know full well that i am a very grounded person, i'm grounded to science fact. To such an extent, i can't handle science fiction, or anyone who posts rubbish UFO videos and abduction claims. That drives me mad so i usually don't participate in those messages. In summery, i need solid science, solid proof, you need to be that way to make progress in science. Thats the kind of scientifically minded person i am.

But!!! Why did i post this message? Why am i now participating in a conversation about something that would normally drive me mad? About 2 years ago i started investigating "something relating to SETI" just for fun. It started out as something to do just to pass time. But the more i investigated, the more real scientific evidence that started to turn up. And i'm not talking about UFO's or any rubbish. This just made me more curious and i continued the investigation. Cut a long story short, by the end of December 2010, the evidence was so compelling that now i cannot let go. I effectively found what i was looking for. It started as a fun pastime, now the incredibly compelling scientific evidence is forcing me to follow through and officially publish my scientific findings. I'm still several months away from completing the investigation. But i promise you one thing, i will publish what i found, and its solid science!

Please don't allow yourself to be pulled into the escapism and fantasy of a few fevered imaginations who are able to put it together into a show and put on a channel that tries to pass itself off as authoritative in documentaries. We need more people grounded in reality and not off chasing Unicorns because we found a fossil with an extra appendage.

I promice you this, i will never be sucked into science fiction and fantasy. I'm as grounded as they come. I'm finding it hard myself to believe what i am finding. I have to shake my head somethimes and ask myself if i'm going mad. But i'm not mad, its just the stuff thats turning up is difficult to believe. If i told you what has happened to me in the last 3 months, you wouldn't believe me. So i just don't tell anyone! OzzFan i don't talk to anyone about what i found!

John.
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Message 1092740 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 19:20:14 UTC - in response to Message 1092732.

But!!! Why did i post this message? Why am i now participating in a conversation about something that would normally drive me mad? About 2 years ago i started investigating "something relating to SETI" just for fun. It started out as something to do just to pass time. But the more i investigated, the more real scientific evidence that started to turn up. This just made me more curious and i continued the investigation. Cut a long story short, by the end of December 2010, the evidence was so compelling that now i cannot let go. I effectively found what i was looking for. It started as a fun pastime, now the incredibly compelling scientific evidence is forcing me to follow through and officially publish my scientific findings. I'm still several months away from completing the investigation. But i promise you one thing, i will publish what i found, and its solid science!


I once almost got sucked into a few conspiracy theories because I actually wasted my time in even giving them the chance and benefit of the doubt.

Many of these outlandish theories have very smart people that are able to add things up in such a convincing way that even an intelligent person like you or me can fall for.

I'm glad you wish to publish what you find, but be forewarned that peer-review isn't just you vs. the skeptics. It's all about solid science.

A little stabbing point just to keep you well grounded (and I'm not trying to provoke you or make you angry), but I remember your thread in the Cafe about there not truly being any thread lurkers and your Myth-busters style math and experimentation was full of errors. I really mean no offense but I do seriously question your conclusions and your interest in what is my opinion can only be described as folly.

Please don't allow yourself to be pulled into the escapism and fantasy of a few fevered imaginations who are able to put it together into a show and put on a channel that tries to pass itself off as authoritative in documentaries. We need more people grounded in reality and not off chasing Unicorns because we found a fossil with an extra appendage.

I promice you this, i will never be sucked into science fiction and fantasy. I'm as grounded as they come. I'm finding it hard myself to believe what i am finding. I have to shake my head somethimes and ask myself if i'm going mad. But i'm not mad, its just the stuff thats turning up is difficult to believe. If i told you what has happened to me in the last 3 months, you woulldn't believe me. So i just don't tell anyone!

John.


Hey! There's nothing wrong with Science Fiction so long as we all realize it's not reality! :-D

I do fear though that you are falling for convincing theories that are purposely made to make sense casually, but when put in peer-review against actual scientists (not just laymen on a message board and not crackpots who claim to be scientists), it will be a waste of your time that you'll never be able to get back in your life.

Real alien-hunters have a hard enough time being taken seriously without all the ridiculous, unproven theories that never hold up. But hey, it's your life and you can do with it what you wish. I just hate to see smart people get sucked into a web of lies and conspiracies because they are trying to make their opinions match reality instead of letting the data dictate reality.

I mean, I once believed I had an out of body experience and met God, and I was willing to do anything to prove to people that it happened - and there were far too many people willing to believe me simply because I invoked the word "God". It never really happened but I wanted to make it real anyway.

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Message 1092746 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 19:35:29 UTC

IMHO, The ONLY way to find out if the earth has been visited in it's past history, would have to be for those currently here, to step forward and state so.
(Yes indeed. My flying saucer poster says, "I Do Believe!".)

Other wise, the debate on the subject will continue on forever, given the lack of hard and absolute proof of the proposed occurrence.

BTW, Personally I believe they've been "hanging 'round the hood" for a long, long time, perhaps changing DNA sequences; toying, twisting, folding, and tweaking them, which would account for the appalling appearance and acceptance by the younger earth's human populous of "RAP" music.

MUSIC!?

More of an "EPIC FAIL", if I do say so, on their part!

Guess they aren't as smart, as we believe they were OR they have crummy taste in aurial pleasures. :-)
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Message 1092753 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 20:01:03 UTC - in response to Message 1092740.
Last modified: 2 Apr 2011, 20:04:02 UTC

OzzFan said:

I just hate to see smart people get sucked into a web of lies and conspiracies because they are trying to make their opinions match reality instead of letting the data dictate reality.

OzzFan,
Sometimes i wish i could wind back the clock and not find what I've found. Sometimes i wish i could stop. But i can't. I'm not following someone else's theory, i'm just doing what i do best. My talent in life is problem solving. So i investigated several difficult scientific problems over the last few years, and on December 29th 2010, i solved all the problems all at the one time. Now i'm so overwhelmed by what's happened, i'm spending the next few months checking, and checking again, and double checking, and verifying the problems i solved. I need to be sure, as you say, peer-review is cruel. So i'm either 100% sure or i won't be publishing anything.

OzzFan i do appreciate your constructive criticism, thank you!

John.
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Message 1092754 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 20:07:48 UTC - in response to Message 1092746.

MUSIC!?

More of an "EPIC FAIL", if I do say so, on their part!

Guess they aren't as smart, as we believe they were OR they have crummy taste in aurial pleasures. :-)

WHOSIT,
If there are aliens out there, i bet they like music too :)

John.

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Message 1092822 - Posted: 2 Apr 2011, 23:35:15 UTC - in response to Message 1092740.

The pyramids were built based on mathmatical theory, geomatry, something called a tringle, the human brain is smart enough to come with that, and that is what the ancient egyptians engineers did; aliens did not build them as some waco scientists claim. All human enginuity, nothing else. The next thing is for someone to come up with theory that parthegon was built by aliens. Lets focus on asttronomy, SETI, not discuss wacco ideas or theories based on fantasy.

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Message 1092858 - Posted: 3 Apr 2011, 1:31:32 UTC - in response to Message 1092822.
Last modified: 3 Apr 2011, 1:32:51 UTC

The next thing is for someone to come up with theory that Parthenon was built by aliens....

Hmmmm.....Now you really got me thinking. There's no way the Greeks could have built a monstrosity like that....LOL :) Must have been ET!!

John.

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Message 1092954 - Posted: 3 Apr 2011, 13:13:11 UTC

OK, I'll shove my 2C worth in here.

I happen to believe that that we were visited by extraterrestrials at some time in the past and various books I've read all seem to think at about 11,000 BC. I think that an expedition from somewhere did land here, using shuttle craft from an orbiting mother ship, and spent a couple of years exploring all over the world, before they went home. They probably used some form of helicopters and tracked vehicles.

The Von Daniken books are interesting as is also Duncan Lunans "Man and the stars" about the Epsilon Bootis space probe. However what strikes me is the similarity between virtually all of the worlds religions. In each case they all have the same origins.

    Their gods came from the sky
    They moved about in strange flying machines
    Whenever they appeared there was thunder and flame
    They carried out miracles with magic rods
    They went back to the stars and promised to come back
    None of them ever have done



I think that the Bible has many accounts of their time on earth but it is recounted in the language of the time which needs to be deciphered. For example "they spoke with a loud voice" well, a shuttle craft landing like a jump jet harrier ain't gonna be quiet!

"it shone unto like a Beryl" if you were trying to describe a red hot rocket exhaust 11,000 years ago how would you have done it?

"When they moved they had wheels within wheels" If you were surveying desert or sandy regions wouldn't you use something like a lunar rover or snowcat? Have a read of Ezekial.



Thse magic rods of theirs that apparently could cut rocks. Today we would recognise those as thermic lances or portable industrial lasers.

Various flying beings had wings, ie Archangels, angels, cherubims etc. Traditionally they are depicted in human form with bird like wings. Today we might recognise them as Chinooks, Black Haws/Sea Kings, or one man gyrocopters.

"They had rows of eyes" To a desert nomad portholes would look like that.

They also spoke through altars and if a human touched one they fell down dead. If they were communication devices with a large battery for power, short circuiting yourself is not a good idea!

Take the Baalbek terrace with 1000 ton stones. We couldn't build that today with modern technology. Or Tiahuanacu is a mystery at 15,000 BC.

But the bible does a lot more than that. Take Genesis, God caused Adam to have a deep sleep and removed one of his ribs and created Eve. Ok, today we would instantly recognise that as an account of anaesthesia, an operatiom, and DNA cloning using bome marrow.

So and so begat so and so, and he lived x hundred years, and so on ..... simple parish records. Human history is in there but fragmented and partly missing, and with no timescales.



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Message 1092970 - Posted: 3 Apr 2011, 14:18:15 UTC

Point of order. We and the ancients could certainly build with very large stones. They (and we) could polish them and align them very precisely. The ancient races such as the Babylonians and the Egyptians had their share of skilled mathematicians and engineers.

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Message 1092977 - Posted: 3 Apr 2011, 14:51:12 UTC - in response to Message 1092970.

as far as ezekial seeing aliens, perhaps he was schizophrenic. It wouldn't be a stretch since many schizophrenics see and hear things that we cannot. I think it would be interesting to see if our prophets were actually mentally disturbed and not actually talking to beings others couldnt see
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Message 1093026 - Posted: 3 Apr 2011, 18:01:51 UTC
Last modified: 3 Apr 2011, 18:04:34 UTC

There is also some evidence that hallucinogenic substances have been about since the dawn of time. But as the author of this thread says

This is my question; What would be 100% proof of Ancient Aliens?


Difficult to answer actually. If we found a mummified space ship how would we know it wasn't one of ours from a previously died out civilisation. (Atlantis anyone?) Unless and until earth detects orbiting spaceships, and they actually land upon earth, it is all subjecture and opinion.

I can't prove that aliens exist or have been here in the past, nor can anyone prove that they haven't, and I don't see that changing in my lifetime. All we can do is to believe what we want to believe.
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Message 1093144 - Posted: 4 Apr 2011, 0:08:24 UTC - in response to Message 1092954.

Sounds like " District 9 "

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Message 1093226 - Posted: 4 Apr 2011, 4:25:07 UTC - in response to Message 1093026.
Last modified: 4 Apr 2011, 4:35:38 UTC

Chris S,
Pitty you didn't join in here sooner. I read your last two messages very carefully. I agree with almost everything you say. I'm glad someone see's that there might be the possibility that there is some scientific truth in the Ancient Aliens theory. Its at least worth investigating this stuff.

Modern science completely rules out anything to do with bible stories, the Koran, or any other old religious text's that invoke God or any "devine creator". I think that is very very wrong!! To completely rule out bible stories as having no scientific credibility is wrong! Its removing hugh chunks of written human history at times when people recorded incredible things that were happening all over the world! THAT IS VERY WRONG! And its NOT SCIENTIFIC to banish anyone who investigates weird and unusual science. If we don't challenge todays science, then no progress will ever be made in any area of science!

So, right or wrong, thats exactly what i have been doing for the last number of years. I'm investigating particular elements of the Ancient Aliens theory to see if there is any scientific credibility to the theory. When i started my investigation, i had never heard of the Ancient Aliens theory, but now i understand the theory, thats the kind of category my investigation falls into. I was doing this before the history channel ever had that TV show. If the investigation is carried out in a scientific manner, then what i am doing is very worthwhile science!!

If nothing credible comes from my scientific investigation, then i won't be publishing anything, nothing will change and the Ancient Aliens theory will continue as just a fascinating pastime for wacky people. But if i do find some credible scientific evidence that people are not currently aware of, then i will publish my scientific findings!

And so far in my investigation, i am following a "very definite line of inquiry".

John.
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Message 1093231 - Posted: 4 Apr 2011, 4:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 1093026.
Last modified: 4 Apr 2011, 5:22:16 UTC


I can't prove that aliens exist or have been here in the past, nor can anyone prove that they haven't, and I don't see that changing in my lifetime. All we can do is to believe what we want to believe.

Chris S,
You mark my words my friend, you will see it in your lifetime!! Far sooner than you think!

Chris i am the ultimate skeptic. Nobody is more skeptical than me when it comes to information, and especially scientific information. Why??? Because i'm the kind of person that is likely to actually go off and physically test a theory to breaking point. Its very hard to pull the wool over my eyes then it comes to physics and electrical engineering. Thats my specialty!

So Chris, to hear someone like me posting messages in a public forum asking people serious questions about Ancient Aliens, then you know i'm not doing it just for kicks. I'm saying two years from now at the very latest, but most likely i will publish my findings in the next few months. I'm willing to go to incredible lengths to solve difficult problems, I'll stop at nothing to solve a problem in physics. Chris what you said in your first message here inspires me and gives me strength!

Chris S said:
OK,
    Their gods came from the sky
    They moved about in strange flying machines
    Whenever they appeared there was thunder and flame
    They carried out miracles with magic rods
    They went back to the stars and promised to come back
    None of them ever have done


Jesus came back, and what did we do to him??? We crucified him on a cross because he talked about love and hope and charity and forgiveness and heaven and God and an afterlife! And we wonder why aliens won't land here in spaceships!! We wonder why SETI can't hear anyone broadcasting "hello we're here" messages. Jesus said he would come back, and i believe him!

Joan Osborne - What if God was One Of Us! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4CRkpBGQzU

I started praying to God lately. I haven't prayed in 30 years.

John.
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Message 1093237 - Posted: 4 Apr 2011, 5:16:37 UTC - in response to Message 1093231.

"Chris i am the ultimate septic."

Johnny, thank you. That typo made my evening.

The idea of life on earth starting from other worlds does not require a physical visitation. There are interesting theories to the "seeds of life" being spread via meteor, comet, many other possibilities. We do know viruses
can be maintained in crystalized dormant form for extended periods of time.

This of course, proves nothing. And what science does not explain, religion attempts to. I suppose any theory requires a leap of faith. At least until proven.


____________

Janice

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