Earthquake and Tsunami hits Japan.

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John McLeod VII
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Message 1086643 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 3:28:11 UTC - in response to Message 1086636.  

The day the Chernobyl cloud passed over Italy I was visiting the Euratom site ad Ispra and, as a rule, I was given a small nuclear radiation detector to monitor any radiation I might receive. I had to give it back while exiting the site, so I never knew how much radiation I had absorbed that day.
Tullio

Of course there is a difference between Chernobyl and Fukushima I, Chernobyl was man made as Disasters go, And Fukushima I is a real accident that may not have been adequately protected from a Tsunami by a 35' tall sea wall. But We'll see as some of the reactors there were built back in 1967 and are probably obsolete now. This doesn't mean all there are due to be shut down, Just the older ones.

There are other major differences. Chernobyl was a graphite moderated reactor. These have two distinct problems that do not exist in other types of reactors. First Graphite tends to catch fire. Second, they do not do well at all at low power.

There were several other problems with Chernobyl. Including the roofs of the non-containment buildings. These were made of sheet metal with crimped edges with a coating of tar on top. These are bad fire hazards because the tar on the roof is metered into any fire inside the building at a rate that usually keeps it burning hot - no matter what the firemen do. The containment building failed to keep the radiation inside, and released a major cloud of radioactive ash into the atmosphere. My bet is that the containment buildings in Japan will hold, and it will be more like Three Mile Island.


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Message 1086647 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 3:42:17 UTC

I think the containment building of one reactor has exploded, unless it was the turbine hall that exploded cause a hydrogen buildup.
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Message 1086649 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 3:45:43 UTC - in response to Message 1086647.  

I think the containment building of one reactor has exploded, unless it was the turbine hall that exploded cause a hydrogen buildup.
Tullio

From what the News said It was not the Containment/Vessel that exploded Tullio. The explosion looked more like hydrogen/steam than anything else and the radioactivity did fall the News said, which is good.
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Message 1086652 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 4:03:09 UTC

The safety of a nuclear reactor is three tiered. Th first tier is the casing of the fuel elements, made from an alloy called Zircaloy. The second is the steel vessel containing the reactor core. The third one is the containment building made of reinforced concrete. It is this that may have crumbled after a chemical explosion.
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Message 1086762 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 16:31:47 UTC
Last modified: 13 Mar 2011, 16:34:01 UTC

Q&A: What has quake done to Japanese nuclear reactors?


How does a nuclear reactor of this kind work?

Uranium 235 -- the fuel inside a nuclear reactor -- undergoes nuclear fission. This process emits a lot of heat energy, (water is used to cool down the U235)which produces steam, and that steam turns a turbine, generating electricity.

What happened to the nuclear reactors during the quake?

Three of the six reactors at the site were in operation when the earthquake hit. The reactors are designed to shut down automatically when a quake strikes, and emergency diesel generators began the task of pumping water around the reactors to cool them down. However, these stopped about an hour later. The failure of the back-up generators has been blamed on tsunami flooding by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

On Sunday an official with Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said a meltdown may be under way at one of Fukushima Daiichi's nuclear power reactors.

Described by one analyst as a "Hail Mary pass", Tokyo Electric Power Company began injecting sea water mixed with boron into the primary containment vessel in an operation that got under way Saturday night, IAEA said.

Boron is an element with the ability to absorb neutrons, the sub-atomic particles that occur in the nucleus of all atoms. In a nuclear reactor, it is essential that just the right number of neutrons are present. Too many neutrons can cause a fission reaction to get out of control. Too few neutrons and a fission reaction stops.

What could have caused the explosion at the plant?

The blast was not caused by damage to the nuclear reactor but by a pumping system that failed as crews tried to bring the reactor's temperature down, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Saturday. He said the plant operator confirmed there was no damage to the steel container housing the reactor.

Malcolm Grimston, Associate Fellow for Energy, Environment and Development at London's Chatham House, said he believed the explosion had been caused by a build-up of pressure inside the inner containment of the reactor.

"Because they lost power to the water cooling system, they needed to vent the pressure that's building up inside.

"My suspicion is that as the temperature inside the reactor was rising, some of the metal cans that surround the fuel may have burst and at high temperature, that fuel cladding can react with water to produce zirconium oxide and hydrogen.

"That hydrogen then will be part of the gases that need to be vented. That hydrogen then mixes with the surrounding air. Hydrogen and oxygen can then recombine explosively.

"So it seems while the explosion wasn't directly connected with the nuclear processes, it was indirectly connected, because the hydrogen was only present because of what was going on in the reactor core."

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Message 1086791 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 17:32:11 UTC - in response to Message 1086787.  
Last modified: 13 Mar 2011, 17:32:48 UTC

UK latest

Yeah, But I think 10,000 may be somewhat low, I expect the death toll to be much higher, But by then the News will have moved on, As the Quake by then will be old news not worth reporting.
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Message 1086795 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 17:43:10 UTC - in response to Message 1086791.  

UK latest

Yeah, But I think 10,000 may be somewhat low, I expect the death toll to be much higher, But by then the News will have moved on, As the Quake by then will be old news not worth reporting.


We´ll be informed in eueope.
With no doubt.



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Message 1086803 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 17:53:50 UTC - in response to Message 1086801.  

How on earth are they going to remove the many ships inland on the ground? Some are very large, they will have to be cut up in pieces one assumes?

It can be done, One was up on a dock, There a coffer dam could be constructed so as to float the ship away and then lower the ship back down, But cranes would be cheaper to use, For those farther away Cranes and special moving equipment would be needed, As It's like moving a large building, So cutting/scrapping is not needed.
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Message 1086807 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 18:16:17 UTC

The toll will be int the tens of thousands..........

Did you watch the first tsunami?????????//
Christ Almighty come awash........

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1086812 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 18:35:59 UTC - in response to Message 1086807.  

The toll will be int the tens of thousands..........

Did you watch the first tsunami?????????//
Christ Almighty come awash........

Yeah, I saw that monster wave on TV, Only those on hills nearby or on tall buildings here and there were safe. sigh another setback in a long line of setbacks going back to beyond antiquity.
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Message 1086816 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 18:54:33 UTC

Peoples tend to forget. The tsunami following the Messina quake of 1908 destroyed Messina and killed 80000 people. Yet people still live there. There were no nuclear reactors, of course, but some plan to build a bridge across the Stretto di Messina. I hope they think twice after this disaster.
Tullio

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Message 1086828 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 20:08:36 UTC - in response to Message 1086826.  

Before/after

Moce the centre slider left and right.

Those look bad.


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Message 1086829 - Posted: 13 Mar 2011, 20:21:43 UTC - in response to Message 1086828.  

Before/after

Moce the centre slider left and right.

Those look bad.

Agreed, Total Devastation for the most part, Almost no structures survived intact and the land is either flooded or has sank some. The airport @ Sendai might be salvageable though, As that whole area is not going to be the same as It was before.
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Message 1086995 - Posted: 14 Mar 2011, 13:03:09 UTC - in response to Message 1086988.  

Nikkei dropped 6%. It's not pretty and I would think that trading would be halted for a week. In the hopes that some stability could be won.


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Message 1087016 - Posted: 14 Mar 2011, 15:39:07 UTC - in response to Message 1086996.  

What I think impresses me is that there has been no looting at all. During the 2007 floods in the UK West Country, abandoned cars were broken into and free packs of bottled water were stolen. There was looting in Chile after the earthquake last year, and troops were sent in. In New Orleans the looting was simply terrible.

Why do some people react to disaster by demonstrating everyone for himself, but others – especially the Japanese – are able to pull together in adversity?

I think You'll find It's their culture and maybe their religion, But then I could be wrong, As I'm just on the outside looking in. The USS Ronald Reagan("the navy has a Raygun") has moved farther offshore as It seems the whole ship moved through a radioactive cloud, So they may have to wash(decontaminate) the ship & personnel off.
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Message 1087017 - Posted: 14 Mar 2011, 15:50:43 UTC - in response to Message 1086996.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2011, 15:53:19 UTC

Why do some people react to disaster by demonstrating everyone for himself, but others – especially the Japanese – are able to pull together in adversity?

Just an observation: Japan endured the most horrific man-made catastrophe in history.
Perhaps that singular event helped change/mold their perspective and character.
But, I am sure there are many attributing factors which define the collective consciousness of the Japanese people.
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Message 1087023 - Posted: 14 Mar 2011, 16:06:17 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2011, 16:07:32 UTC

On the News, Some food stores in Japan are sold out of food, They showed bare shelves. Also at least one of the fisheries ships caught fire and may have sunk.
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Message 1087024 - Posted: 14 Mar 2011, 16:12:38 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2011, 16:12:56 UTC

A few minutes ago i have read that 72,945 Buildings are destroyed.
I wonder how they count it so exactly...

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Message 1087025 - Posted: 14 Mar 2011, 16:25:52 UTC - in response to Message 1087024.  

A few minutes ago i have read that 72,945 Buildings are destroyed.
I wonder how they count it so exactly...

Helli

Satellites and Computers maybe, Otherwise I have no idea.
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Message 1087029 - Posted: 14 Mar 2011, 16:33:30 UTC - in response to Message 1087024.  

A few minutes ago i have read that 72,945 Buildings are destroyed.
I wonder how they count it so exactly...

Helli


Well, when whole towns are destroyed you just check to see how many buildings were in that town then count the extra buildings outside. Doesn't take long to come up with a total that is way too high but accurate.



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