Most solar installations now days are grid connect, so you can scratch the batteries and associated hardware. This pretty much leaves panels, inverters, and grid switches.

But whether it will pay off for you (it will but in how long is a serious question, and there is no fast and accurate answer, it always "depends") is something you have to justify to yourself.

Yes installations that cost thousand of dollars and installed by a contractor
not a do it yourself for marks situation

Many people think just cause their not in the southwest that solar is not for them, I mean Wisconsin is in the same latitude as Rome Italy, Germany is farther north than that and they have solar like crazy, So unless one lives in Alaska/Yukon or farther north, Solar isn't impossible. And yes, Grid connected is the way to go, No batteries to worry about, Just the panels, wiring, mounting and an inverter, The grid is the battery and in the winter solar photovoltaic panels become even more efficient cause of the cold weather and when there's snow around more light gets reflected off of the snow towards the panels.

Great simplistic view I really like the part about reflected light
lets all bend the light so it hits our panel

Solar drops off drastically with anything other than full sun
Here in ny where I live for over a month now we're lucky if we've had that more than a few min at a time every few days Hardly useful for generating power

Unless You've had a survey that says otherwise, You get more than You think, 4.5Kwh per day in areas like Wisconsin is an example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_States#Availability

There are DIY install kits out there Robert, Not all of them cost lots of money, Meaning more than $10,000.00, Some cost less, Like here for a 1.2Kw kit for $5,378.34 before shipping and yes installation services are available.

For a person using 1500 Kwh a month 4.5 is not going to cut it. I assume that number is 4.5/ panel. if thats the case then you'd need 10-11 panels to cover just your use. This doesn't seeem to be an effective means of Mark saving near time money. If he was planning to save money long term sure. However he's losing work not getting a massive golden parachute. Lets get back to logical solutions that aren't cash heavy on the front end.

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Some ideas to cut costs for you....

Stop buying whiskey & cigarettes-period. Put the cash used for whiskey/smokes into a jar and keep it in your closet. Use that as your emergency Kitty chow fund. I suspect this fund would grow VERY quickly.

Turn all but one machine off on the weekends.

Ask Lori to move in with you to share costs.

Hope it helps.

Not so funny......as it turns out.

Lori is having some problems with her boss of 10 years or so too.
Not of her own making....she gives her all to her job. But after 10 years, all of a sudden, her boss thinks she is 'overpaid for what she does'.....
Kinda stinks, as some bank consolidations have put his son out of work. Just a few weeks before that comment was made.
We have been lovers for what, 25 years now?

BTW, whiskey is cheap......cigs are not....
They would be the next thing to go before kitty kibble.

Whiskey...... $60.00/month.
Cigs......... $220.00/month.....and killing me.

Yep, Cigs aren't cheap, but then if Yer hooked, There is the patch in smaller and smaller amounts until one is off of cigs.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

could we please not hijack Marks thread about solar? It really does not apply to his current situation, at least short term.

---

Janice

Lets see 4.5Kw per meter 2
9Kw for a nice size 1X2 meter panel
at 11 cents a kw roughly a buck a day $365 per year

Id say 5years constant use with no repairs to recoop expenditure

Gee such a deal not sure I could take all that savings should I live that long

could we please not hijack Marks thread about solar? It really does not apply to his current situation, at least short term.

Uhh.......my original post was about lack of income and 'time of use electric rates' VS oil heat.

I had nothing to say about solar.

Start another thread about it.
(mumbles off meowing into the distance..)

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Most solar installations now days are grid connect, so you can scratch the batteries and associated hardware. This pretty much leaves panels, inverters, and grid switches.

But whether it will pay off for you (it will but in how long is a serious question, and there is no fast and accurate answer, it always "depends") is something you have to justify to yourself.

Yes installations that cost thousand of dollars and installed by a contractor
not a do it yourself for marks situation

Many people think just cause their not in the southwest that solar is not for them, I mean Wisconsin is in the same latitude as Rome Italy, Germany is farther north than that and they have solar like crazy, So unless one lives in Alaska/Yukon or farther north, Solar isn't impossible. And yes, Grid connected is the way to go, No batteries to worry about, Just the panels, wiring, mounting and an inverter, The grid is the battery and in the winter solar photovoltaic panels become even more efficient cause of the cold weather and when there's snow around more light gets reflected off of the snow towards the panels.

Great simplistic view I really like the part about reflected light
lets all bend the light so it hits our panel

Solar drops off drastically with anything other than full sun
Here in ny where I live for over a month now we're lucky if we've had that more than a few min at a time every few days Hardly useful for generating power

Unless You've had a survey that says otherwise, You get more than You think, 4.5Kwh per day in areas like Wisconsin is an example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_States#Availability

There are DIY install kits out there Robert, Not all of them cost lots of money, Meaning more than $10,000.00, Some cost less, Like here for a 1.2Kw kit for $5,378.34 before shipping and yes installation services are available.

For a person using 1500 Kwh a month 4.5 is not going to cut it. I assume that number is 4.5/ panel. if thats the case then you'd need 10-11 panels to cover just your use. This doesn't seeem to be an effective means of Mark saving near time money. If he was planning to save money long term sure. However he's losing work not getting a massive golden parachute. Lets get back to logical solutions that aren't cash heavy on the front end.

No panel goes up that high Robert, Most don't go above 245w, The 4.5Kw is per day, As to what a system makes in a day, I have no idea, Some have 30 or so panels to get to 7.3Kw(per day or what? I don't know), Solar could at the very least offset the A/C costs in the Spring/Summer/Fall and Lights in Winter.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Hey its marks thread and he's already said enough of the danged solar enegery conversation.

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

could we please not hijack Marks thread about solar? It really does not apply to his current situation, at least short term.

Uhh.......my original post was about lack of income and 'time of use electric rates' VS oil heat.

I had nothing to say about solar.

Start another thread about it.
(mumbles off meowing into the distance..)

Sorry Mark, Consider It stopped.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Hey its marks thread and he's already said enough of the danged solar enegery conversation.

Thanks......
I gave figures for cost of oil heat at 80 percent VS real usage of electric at on and off peak rates.

Solar, aside from the investment cost, has poor payback here.

Please stop the discussion of it, Vic.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

It's OK, Vic.

You know how 'pissed-offedness' goes on the boards.......

Takes a few minutes to take hold.

Solar is a worthy discussion, but not in this thread.

If the Goddamned government had continued with the alternative energies protocols that were launched in the 70's.....we would not be here now.

But, when oil became cheap again, they were abandoned.

But......another thread for that, and it should probably be in politics, not NC.

No harm, no foul. OK?

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Hey Mark, I just wanted to say that I am sorry to hear about you situation. I do not really have an idea on how to save on your electric bill. With all you have done for Seti@Home like getting the donations thread going when Seti needed money last October. We and the project would miss you alot but we understand if you need to shut down for awile. The project was down for a month and everyone survived.

This is on a personal note. I quit smoking in 2000 when my daughter told us she was going to have a baby. I used the patch to stop, it wasn't easy but I stuck to it. A year later my father died of lung cancer. I was dignoised with lung cancer in 2007. I had surgery that took it out along with part of my right lung. I was very lucky that they found it in a very early stage. So far so good everything is clear after 4 years and I didn't even have to have cimotherpy. I implore you to quit and save that money for kibble and litter.

Anyway good luck all I can give you is my support which you have.

---

Seti@Home Classic Work Units 413
Seti@Home Classic CPU time 3,869 hours

Doug

Hey Mark, I just wanted to say that I am sorry to hear about you situation. I do not really have an idea on how to save on your electric bill. With all you have done for Seti@Home like getting the donations thread going when Seti needed money last October. We and the project would miss you alot but we understand if you need to shut down for awile. The project was down for a month and everyone survived.

This is on a personal note. I quit smoking in 2000 when my daughter told us she was going to have a baby. I used the patch to stop, it wasn't easy but I stuck to it. A year later my father died of lung cancer. I was dignoised with lung cancer in 2007. I had surgery that took it out along with part of my right lung. I was very lucky that they found it in a very early stage. So far so good everything is clear after 4 years and I didn't even have to have cimotherpy. I implore you to quit and save that money for kibble and litter.

Anyway good luck all I can give you is my support which you have.

Thank you very much for your post.

I am very lost right now.......I know what I should do, but lack the guts to do it.

I suppose I am lucky it didn't kill me by now.

I am 54, and my Dad had a 5 bypass surgery a couple of years ago, even though he never smoked. I am probably pushing my luck. But then again, I never said I was immortal. Or maybe I did......even immortals have to keep up appearances by paying the bills. FOR EVER.....................

I should quit now........not just because the pricks are charging over $8.00 a pack for the s**t........

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

May of 2008 I was laid off and as a way to reduce my tobacco expense I started hand rolling. I spend about $60 per month rather than $160 per month. A side benefit is the quality is much better. This one thing I have done to adjust to the "new normal".
BEST OF LUCK AND HANG IN THERE.

---

Mark, FWIW, when my grandfather saw cigarettes go to 50 cents a pack he bought a Bugler home rolling kit and rolled his own for the next 10~12 years till he died at 72 from prostate cancer. Not bad for the life he had, coal miner, farmer, house painter, cab driver, sideing installer, and other jobs. A 10th grade education kind of precluded nice indoor jobs. Still, he raised a daughter and 5 of her children with the help of my grandmother who also worked 2 jobs a day for most of her life, until one of her jobe found out she'd lied about her birth date when she hired in there and was really 75 instead of 65.

Mark, FWIW, when my grandfather saw cigarettes go to 50 cents a pack he bought a Bugler home rolling kit and rolled his own for the next 10~12 years till he died at 72 from prostate cancer. Not bad for the life he had, coal miner, farmer, house painter, cab driver, sideing installer, and other jobs. A 10th grade education kind of precluded nice indoor jobs. Still, he raised a daughter and 5 of her children with the help of my grandmother who also worked 2 jobs a day for most of her life, until one of her jobe found out she'd lied about her birth date when she hired in there and was really 75 instead of 65.

Will work every day until I die....God willing.

I don't worry too much about SS payments......I will either die or somebody will pay to have my life extended.

I paid in.........since I was 16 yo.

I don't have to be ashamed to stake my claim now.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Mark, FWIW, when my grandfather saw cigarettes go to 50 cents a pack he bought a Bugler home rolling kit and rolled his own for the next 10~12 years till he died at 72 from prostate cancer.

I'll second the notion of going to roll-your-own. My brother and several of my co-workers go that route. They look just like anything PM etc make, and you can get a 1 or 5-pound bag of tobacco that makes several cartons-worth of smokes for less than one carton of ready-mades. If you aren't ready to quit, that will at least reduce your costs.

Fox River valley, eh? I have relatives in Winneconne, Green Bay, Portage, Germantown, New Berlin, and Milwaukee (where I was hatched).

Stay well, and think positive. As long as you are upright and functional, things can get better.

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

"Mark...Mark...Mark...MARK. You're not REALLY listening to me, are you?"

You know the reference don't you?


In all honesty Mark I can't see your problem.
You're RAC may go down. So What?
The real measure of your contribution to seti@home has nothing to do with RAC.

Your missives are not simple requests for more WU's easily processed for more credits,
but a genuine attempt at dialog, engagement, in a process that may take a long, long time.
Your dedication is to be admired.

Take a calculated break if needed.
I promise that we won't find ET without you.

I LOVE the reference........few others would get it.

The problem is with my pride.

I know that even if I shut everything down for but a few hours a day, I will still be supporting the project somehow.

Just not to MY standards.

It has been years. And this does hurt me.
I shall continue to do all that I can, anyway that I can, where and however I can.

I just may not be able to do what I could before.....and that makes me cry.

The Seti project has been an obsession of mine for almost 11 years.
It has driven most waking moments of my life in that time.

Yes, it will rob me of sleep for years to come if I can't do my best for it.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Oh........
To let everyone else in on the reference......

The movie, one of my favorite movies of all time, is Kpax.

The scene, with the quote, is this.......

Mark, Mark, Mark.

"Every being in the universe knows right from wrong."

Best quote ever from a movie that never got the recognition that it should have.


The best single scene........make sure you can swim. You'd be surprised how much energy there is in a beam of light.

Well, I don't come from where you come from, Dr. Becker.
Where I come from, that's common knowledge.

There, I think that's right........

How many doctors are there on this planet???

This seems to be a newer posting of the scene than I had bookmarked, and full screens with ease and clarity that I don't remember before.

Enjoy.....

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

What you don't see.........
Or wish to give me sometimes, is that last, long shot.

THIS is me......


Tin cup.......

I know I can make it.........

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

You are a fine man, Guido.

My thoughts and interpretations of same are sometimes mistaken for angst.

I do consider myself to be of another world at times.....

And maybe I AM.

As I am stuck here on this planet, in this world.....
I age.

I will die here if I cannot escape this world. If that is my fate, I accept it.

I wish I could go back to whence I came.

I wish I could tell you more about where I came from.

As Prot said, it is simply not possible.

You will know, as I do now, what the future brings.
The sad part is that you, as humans, will expire before you are fully aware.
It will take another few eons before your planet can recover from the human species and start over.

It will, humankind will not.

Kpax is not a mythical place.
We are there, watching you. Have been for some milleniums.
We shall not visit, as there is no reason to.

You are already extinct.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster