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Profile Gary CharpentierProject donor
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Message 1059921 - Posted: 26 Dec 2010, 20:10:02 UTC

A provision in President Obama's health care reform bill encourages "end-of- life" counseling for seniors -- sparking euthanasia fears among some of the legislation's critics and leading others to believe that the White House is looking to save money by pressuring insurers to provide less coverage to seniors.
The provision, tucked deep within the House bill, would provide Medicare coverage for an end-of-life consultation every five years, and more frequent sessions if a person is suffering a life-threatening disease.
Health providers would be required to explain to seniors the end-of-life services available, including "palliative care and hospice."
"This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Mich. said in a statement last month.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/08/end-life-counseling-intensifies-health-care-debate/

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Message 1059924 - Posted: 26 Dec 2010, 20:17:31 UTC

ahh as if we thought we would get a break from fear mongering.

Counseling when faced with a choice between non-life and death is NOT a bad thing. We should be more frightened of NOT having that option.
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Message 1060047 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 0:34:33 UTC - in response to Message 1059924.

well we should eliminate estate lawyers now? these are the folks that give and provide end of life counseling. The create thses things we like to call wills. Some people even go so far as to have living wills. My Grandfather had a living will because he had end of life counseling.

This is a sad politically motivated type topic unworthy of further comment
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Message 1060049 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 0:42:41 UTC - in response to Message 1060047.
Last modified: 27 Dec 2010, 0:44:08 UTC

Last I checked attornies and psychologists provided very different services.
edit: the living will is exactly the kind of thing that could be discussed. attorneys just put it in writing. In legaleeze.
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Message 1060067 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 1:19:06 UTC - in response to Message 1059921.

A provision in President Obama's health care reform bill encourages "end-of- life" counseling for seniors -- sparking euthanasia fears among some of the legislation's critics and leading others to believe that the White House is looking to save money by pressuring insurers to provide less coverage to seniors.
The provision, tucked deep within the House bill, would provide Medicare coverage for an end-of-life consultation every five years, and more frequent sessions if a person is suffering a life-threatening disease.
Health providers would be required to explain to seniors the end-of-life services available, including "palliative care and hospice."
"This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Mich. said in a statement last month.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/08/end-life-counseling-intensifies-health-care-debate/

1) It's a Fox News article. This would be like quoting Stalin's propaganda news reels as a credible independent source.

2) It's from 2009. This was written in an attempt to scare people into voting against the legislation.
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Message 1060072 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 1:22:04 UTC - in response to Message 1060049.

Last I checked attornies and psychologists provided very different services.
edit: the living will is exactly the kind of thing that could be discussed. attorneys just put it in writing. In legaleeze.

Yes, Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care is a bit different than the Hemlock Society.

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Message 1060075 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 1:26:44 UTC - in response to Message 1060067.

2) It's from 2009. This was written in an attempt to scare people into voting against the legislation.

Interesting as it came up as a new article on an aggregation site. Wonder if someone got hacked. Well never mind.


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Message 1060083 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 1:51:32 UTC - in response to Message 1060072.

come on Gary.. you are better than that. Hemlock society. Really? Having someone to talk to when faced with choices of soon death vs. long agonizing pain, loss of all function then eventual death is not a "death panel". There is
was and will be no such thing. No one is going to rule who lives or dies. Simply offer a sounding board when faced with such decisions.

We disagree a lot Gary, but usually you do not sink so low on things. You are above fear mongering.
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Message 1060098 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 3:09:39 UTC - in response to Message 1060083.

come on Gary.. you are better than that. Hemlock society. Really? Having someone to talk to when faced with choices of soon death vs. long agonizing pain, loss of all function then eventual death is not a "death panel". There is
was and will be no such thing. No one is going to rule who lives or dies. Simply offer a sounding board when faced with such decisions.

We disagree a lot Gary, but usually you do not sink so low on things. You are above fear mongering.

You obviously have never had the discussion with a physician. Hemlock Society or what is it now called, Compassion and Choices, is exactly what is talked about by a physician. That is taking the limits off the patient controlled morphine. Letting you decide when to go. Where do you get death panels out of that? Or didn't you see I was agreeing with what I quoted?

Perhaps you are a bit confused by the terms. I'll accept that.

A living will is a will and a trust agreement, also called a living trust. It only deals with money.

A Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care, is a document giving another person the right to make health care decisions for you if you can't make them for yourself.

A No Code Order is a directive to the Doctor to not put you on advanced life support to save your life.

The talk is your doctor telling you how to off yourself without him stepping over the line into assisted suicide as well as him getting a feel for where you want him to stop if at all.


As to that talk, what part of billing it as an office consultation is wrong? Why does a special billing code for end of life discussion need be created? What is feared is what will happen once a special billing code is created. If you know bean counters, you can see where it leads.

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Message 1060136 - Posted: 27 Dec 2010, 6:46:12 UTC - in response to Message 1060098.

That is the point. It is just fear. "What is feared...."

From nothing I have read from anyone is there any indication of "The talk is your doctor telling you how to off yourself without him stepping over the line into assisted suicide as well as him getting a feel for where you want him to stop if at all."

The preceding things are all fine ideas. My mother had a DNR order. She was able to decide it, get it written up, stampled, delivered to every medical facility and emergency response team in the area.

A discussion about options is a very good idea.
"The talk is your doctor telling you how to off yourself without him stepping over the line into assisted suicide as well as him getting a feel for where you want him to stop if at all.


" is baseless. except for perhaps the second part. He should have a good idea how far is too far.

Currently far too many are kept in a "persistent vegetative state" or worse, for two reasons: there are no other instructions, and they still get paid.
Even those with Do not resusitate orders on file, if they start to keep them alive in error, they have no "right" to stop.

Again, "Death Panels" (from the title of this thread) is really silly at best, or twistedly obscene.
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