Is the GTX 295 still the best card for CUDA? (Better than a GTX 470?)

Message boards : Number crunching : Is the GTX 295 still the best card for CUDA? (Better than a GTX 470?)

Author	Message
lupo Send message Joined: 29 Aug 10 Posts: 91 Credit: 4,736,407 RAC: 30	Message 1050079 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 0:28:37 UTC
	I just picked up 3 GTX 470's for my CUDA system but I have the opportunity to pick up a few 295's. Are the 295's still better than a 470 for CUDA work or are there any programming changes coming down in the future that will make the GTX 470 superior? Thanks, Adam
	ID: 1050079 ·

arkayn Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 14 May 99 Posts: 3094 Credit: 40,484,158 RAC: 65,553	Message 1050090 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 1:07:00 UTC
	Jason over at Lunatics is starting to work on the next generation of the CUDA app now that the 3.2 developer tools are out. Still a ways to go though. ____________
	ID: 1050090 ·

msattler Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 34227 Credit: 345,715,828 RAC: 551,351	Message 1050107 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 1:51:00 UTC Last modified: 21 Nov 2010, 1:52:22 UTC
	Yes, the 295 is still the card to beat. Although on some projects, ATI is a killer. Not here, though. Two 295's in one rig are a powerful couple of crunchers. I have 2 465's in another rig, and they are rather lame. Very dissapointed in them, I be. ____________ ****** "Ask not, what your kitty can do for you. Ask what you can do for your kitty." As it is kitten, so shall it be done.
	ID: 1050107 ·

Brkovip Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 274 Credit: 140,736,484 RAC: 49,901	Message 1050149 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 4:25:54 UTC - in response to Message 1050107.
	Yes, the 295 is still the card to beat. Although on some projects, ATI is a killer. Not here, though. Two 295's in one rig are a powerful couple of crunchers. I have 2 465's in another rig, and they are rather lame. Very dissapointed in them, I be. Overclock them! ____________
	ID: 1050149 ·

lupo Send message Joined: 29 Aug 10 Posts: 91 Credit: 4,736,407 RAC: 30	Message 1050173 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 8:31:23 UTC - in response to Message 1050090.
	So, the question is this. If it were your money, would you keep the GTX 470 or spend the cash on a GTX 295? Do you think the single 470 will surpass the processing power of a 295 once the new version of the CUDA app is out? Also, if you know, what would the new CUDA app do to more fully utilize the power of the 470 making it a better performer that the 295? (If you follow my question.) is there some part of the hardware in the 470 that is not currently utilized in the current CUDA software that will be more fully utilized with the future version of the CUDA app? I have a chance to get 2 295's for about $200 each, but I need to make the decision in the next 36-48 hours. :( Adam
	ID: 1050173 ·

jason_gee Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 4054 Credit: 60,470,869 RAC: 57,215	Message 1050174 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 8:44:52 UTC - in response to Message 1050173.
	... Do you think the single 470 will surpass the processing power of a 295 once the new version of the CUDA app is out? 470, maybe, 480 definitely. Also, if you know, what would the new CUDA app do to more fully utilize the power of the 470 making it a better performer that the 295? (If you follow my question.) Use cuda kernels targeted to the wider memory bus, caching & enhanced concurrency features. is there some part of the hardware in the 470 that is not currently utilized in the current CUDA software that will be more fully utilized with the future version of the CUDA app? Yes I have a chance to get 2 295's for about $200 each, but I need to make the decision in the next 36-48 hours. :( Awesome cards, if you took them you won't be disappointed. They are at the end of their lifecycle though (won't be getting a lot faster), whereas the Fermis are at the beginning of theirs( Will be getting a lot faster). The best choice for you would depend on how much patience you have. Jason ____________ "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
	ID: 1050174 ·

msattler Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 34227 Credit: 345,715,828 RAC: 551,351	Message 1050195 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 9:48:02 UTC - in response to Message 1050149.
	Yes, the 295 is still the card to beat. Although on some projects, ATI is a killer. Not here, though. Two 295's in one rig are a powerful couple of crunchers. I have 2 465's in another rig, and they are rather lame. Very dissapointed in them, I be. Overclock them! It does not help much. The cards are crap. When Seti comes back online, you will see...... 2 295s whack the crap outta 2 465s. Twice the power, of course. ____________ ****** "Ask not, what your kitty can do for you. Ask what you can do for your kitty." As it is kitten, so shall it be done.
	ID: 1050195 ·

gizbar Send message Joined: 7 Jan 01 Posts: 586 Credit: 21,087,774 RAC: 0	Message 1050200 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 10:06:06 UTC
	It's not really much of a comparison though, is it? A 295 is a dual GPU card, and a 470 is a single. You'd need 4 470's to even get close to 2 295's. But as has been said, there won't be any more 295's coming, unless you can pick them up second hand, and they are already updating the 470's and 480's with the 580, which runs cooler and overlocks better, and commands the price premium of being the new kid on the block. Plus as has also been said, there may not be much more that can be done to optimise the code for the 295's, whereas there is a lot to be learned about the Fermi code and optimising that. The killer question is:- Immediate results from some 295's, or possibly better results from a newer spec card but over a longer period of time. Giz. ____________ *A proud GPU User Server Donor!*
	ID: 1050200 ·

msattler Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 34227 Credit: 345,715,828 RAC: 551,351	Message 1050203 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 10:24:43 UTC - in response to Message 1050200.
	It's not really much of a comparison though, is it? A 295 is a dual GPU card, and a 470 is a single. You'd need 4 470's to even get close to 2 295's. But as has been said, there won't be any more 295's coming, unless you can pick them up second hand, and they are already updating the 470's and 480's with the 580, which runs cooler and overlocks better, and commands the price premium of being the new kid on the block. Plus as has also been said, there may not be much more that can be done to optimise the code for the 295's, whereas there is a lot to be learned about the Fermi code and optimising that. The killer question is:- Immediate results from some 295's, or possibly better results from a newer spec card but over a longer period of time. Giz. Not much of a question then, is it? A dual Fermi should be available soon, and then the point will be moot. And of course, the Lunatic fringe will make sure that is the case. ____________ ****** "Ask not, what your kitty can do for you. Ask what you can do for your kitty." As it is kitten, so shall it be done.
	ID: 1050203 ·

Helli Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Dec 99 Posts: 692 Credit: 66,783,677 RAC: 2,479	Message 1050204 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 10:27:07 UTC
	The real Question is - How long do we have to wait for a Fermi optimized version! If Nvidia can follow his own Roadmap - next Year we will have the first Kepler GPUs... Helli ____________
	ID: 1050204 ·

jason_gee Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 4054 Credit: 60,470,869 RAC: 57,215	Message 1050212 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 12:12:10 UTC - in response to Message 1050204. Last modified: 21 Nov 2010, 12:13:52 UTC
	The real Question is - How long do we have to wait for a Fermi optimized version! If Nvidia can follow his own Roadmap - next Year we will have the first Kepler GPUs... Helli You saw the first fermi optimisations introduced with x32f ... unfortunately the particular optimisations related mainly to VLAR, for about a 20% improvement, which the project now doesn't send out to GPUs, so the benefit there is obliterated. Now you just have to wait until we work out how to program the stinking things ;) Jason ____________ "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
	ID: 1050212 ·

Helli Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Dec 99 Posts: 692 Credit: 66,783,677 RAC: 2,479	Message 1050213 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 12:41:26 UTC - in response to Message 1050212.
	Well, we wait...as always. ;-) But keep in mind that the lifetime of the Fermi GPUs is limited. :-) Helli ____________
	ID: 1050213 ·

jason_gee Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 4054 Credit: 60,470,869 RAC: 57,215	Message 1050215 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 12:58:50 UTC - in response to Message 1050213. Last modified: 21 Nov 2010, 12:59:47 UTC
	But keep in mind that the lifetime of the Fermi GPUs is limited. :-) Hahaha, I know what you mean. Thankfully Fermi draws on '80's-90's supercomputer architecture, which isn't something that's going to date quickly. Apps come and go, but the skills involved remain. Jason ____________ "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
	ID: 1050215 ·

SciManStev Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 20 Jun 99 Posts: 4297 Credit: 63,110,081 RAC: 74,207	Message 1050216 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 13:03:02 UTC
	The 480's are very powerful indeed. I have two of them water cooled, and overclocked, and each will deliver a RAC of well over 15,000, actually around 18,000. With only 2 GPU's and a fast processor, that easily puts my rig in the top 20 computers. That is much harder to do with just 1 295, which as mentioned is actually two cards in one. The rigs in the top 20 have several GPU's. When Jason has finished optimizing them, the Fermi's will be formidable indeed. I have all the patience in the world. Steve ____________ Warning, addicted to SETI crunching! Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group. GPUUG Website
	ID: 1050216 ·

Westsail and Pyxey Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Jul 99 Posts: 331 Credit: 19,737,157 RAC: 812	Message 1050242 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 17:17:52 UTC
	Absolutely thrilled with Fermi here...Over in Collatz the 460 is exactly 3x as fast as my 260 and 10 degrees cooler. :) <10 minutes for 460 vs. 30+ minutes on the old 260 Haven't had a chance to compare on Seti yet..Sounds like when Jason gets done they will rock'n roll! Jason, Will there be multiple apps for different versions of GF1xx or a single app for all Fermi? I ask cause of the architecture differences between 460/580 and 465/470/480. Thanks in advance! ____________ "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but rather, 'hmm... that's funny...'" -- Isaac Asimov
	ID: 1050242 ·

jason_gee Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 4054 Credit: 60,470,869 RAC: 57,215	Message 1050244 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 17:22:13 UTC - in response to Message 1050242. Last modified: 21 Nov 2010, 17:23:02 UTC
	Jason, Will there be multiple apps for different versions of GF1xx or a single app for all Fermi? I ask cause of the architecture differences between 460/580 and 465/470/480. Thanks in advance! Likely a single 'flexible' build, since nVidia's drivers now contain sophisticated dispatch mechanisms to select amongst suitable kernels based on compute capability. In addition, device parameters allow scaling the kernel launch characteristics at run time (which I'm actually experimenting with now). Jason ____________ "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
	ID: 1050244 ·

VBobier Send message Joined: 30 Nov 03 Posts: 40858 Credit: 32,157,387 RAC: 19,400	Message 1050286 - Posted: 21 Nov 2010, 22:59:20 UTC
	I'm still planning on getting a pair of GTX295 v2 cards to go with My EVGA CO-OP GTX295 card. ____________ BSG Anthem My Facebook page
	ID: 1050286 ·

Joshua Send message Joined: 19 Mar 06 Posts: 13 Credit: 243,106 RAC: 0	Message 1050331 - Posted: 22 Nov 2010, 17:04:56 UTC
	I had asked myself this exact same question.. do I get a second 295 or do I go with a 470... At the moment you can easily get a 295 for 225-300 and for the same price you can get 470. I decided to get two 470's instead, because FERMI is where is at! Fermi is a new technology, and I've seen good results on a non-optimized app, so would you imagine what the performance will be on a optimized app? I currently have 2 PNY 470's that I will be water colling soon. They run a bit hot, but that's typical for a Fermi card. I like the performance so far. I love my 295, but I know its a dying gen video card, once the optimized Fermi app comes out, we will see more and more FERMI cards on top. Just want to give Jason, and BIG BIG thank you for continuing his work on optimizing the Lunatics apps for all the Fermi owners! Thanks Jason! ____________ Any program is only as good as it is useful. -Linus Torvalds
	ID: 1050331 ·

Helli Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Dec 99 Posts: 692 Credit: 66,783,677 RAC: 2,479	Message 1050336 - Posted: 22 Nov 2010, 17:38:56 UTC - in response to Message 1050331. Last modified: 22 Nov 2010, 17:39:24 UTC
	I had asked myself this exact same question.. do I get a second 295 or do I go with a 470... ... My 295er do 9.6 mid range (AR 0.426) WUs in one Hour. Can the GTX470 do the same? If your Answer is Yes - buy a FERMI, is the Answer No then it's a question of Money. ;-) Helli ____________
	ID: 1050336 ·

Frizz Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 271 Credit: 5,852,934 RAC: 0	Message 1050352 - Posted: 22 Nov 2010, 19:49:50 UTC - in response to Message 1050107.
	Although on some projects, ATI is a killer. Not here, though. The optimized app for Astropulse (in alpha stadium) looks very promising. A mainstream HD6850 crunches a unit in under 1 hour!
	ID: 1050352 ·

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Message boards : Number crunching : Is the GTX 295 still the best card for CUDA? (Better than a GTX 470?)