Carolyn = replica (Nov 18 2010)

Message boards : Technical News : Carolyn = replica (Nov 18 2010)

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Monty Chandler

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Message 1050490 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 4:37:44 UTC

As Seti appears to have become no longer viable, you may want to find other projects to engage in. I found a few which I've now directed my resources to. Seems a waste to have spent a decade with a project that has recently really tanked. First it was 40% availability (an industry first) and now an unplanned outage lasting over a month (something I have never heard of in my 32 years in the IT industry). Too bad, but I guess it was inevitable..

Cheers..
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Message 1050492 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 4:41:25 UTC - in response to Message 1050490.  

As Seti appears to have become no longer viable, you may want to find other projects to engage in. I found a few which I've now directed my resources to. Seems a waste to have spent a decade with a project that has recently really tanked. First it was 40% availability (an industry first) and now an unplanned outage lasting over a month (something I have never heard of in my 32 years in the IT industry). Too bad, but I guess it was inevitable..

Cheers..


Thank you for your opinion. Now if you do not mind, while you dig holes, we will try to finish a new roof on the place.

Janice
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Message 1050516 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 6:46:08 UTC - in response to Message 1050490.  

As Seti appears to have become no longer viable, you may want to find other projects to engage in. I found a few which I've now directed my resources to. Seems a waste to have spent a decade with a project that has recently really tanked. First it was 40% availability (an industry first) and now an unplanned outage lasting over a month (something I have never heard of in my 32 years in the IT industry). Too bad, but I guess it was inevitable..

Cheers..

I see from some of your other posts that you are a "30 year IT professional" and it makes me wonder where you were trained.

I've got you beat by a decade.

For most of us, in our "day jobs" we can't have downtime. People are interacting with our systems in real-time, and if something is down, people are inconvenienced.

Sometimes, "inconvenienced" means "can't give us money" and "had to buy from our competitors."

As a result, we run redundant servers, and redundant connectivity, and carry pagers. Data centers are often staffed 24/7. Our companies pay dearly for 99.99% uptime, or 99.999% uptime.

Lots of scientific projects simply don't have the money to do that.

SETI especially, but all of the BOINC projects have that issue: big science, lots of computation, no money.

BOINC is an attempt to do big science on a small-science budget.

I'm disappointed that you're making statements like "40% availability -- an industry first" without reading any of the BOINC White Papers. For that matter, it seems to me that 40% is pessimistic, but then again, all of your posts are mostly doom and gloom.

For what I do, 99% uptime would be dismal and unacceptable. 99% uptime is 3 1/2 days per year. For something like SETI, something like 50% uptime is probably good enough.

Then there is the whole "mission critical" aspect of our jobs that don't apply to BOINC projects. The only people who might be inconvenienced are the project scientists. Your computer certainly doesn't care about idle time, and it isn't inconvenienced when it has to retry.

As for 40% being "unheard of in industry" have you read RFC-821? It goes to great lengths to make sure E-Mail gets delivered on an unreliable internet. It was published in the 1980's -- computing in less-reliable environments isn't new by any means.

Many like you have said "I'm very upset over the down-time" and others always ask "exactly how does this hurt you -- your computers aren't upset."

In my professional opinion, your position is simply not based on the reality of volunteer, academic computing -- nor is your thesis supported by those who raised a nice chunk of cash to buy new servers so the project can continue.
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Profile Geoff Gong

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Message 1050530 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 8:42:01 UTC

Here Here
Exactly that
'volunteer, academic computing'
Low ,LOW budget
we won't mention PayPal here
a job well done

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Profile Uli
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Message 1050532 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 8:52:41 UTC - in response to Message 1050530.  

Here Here
Exactly that
'volunteer, academic computing'
Low ,LOW budget
we won't mention PayPal here
a job well done

Did you contact me?
Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
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Profile Bill Walker
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Message 1050556 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 12:11:25 UTC - in response to Message 1050490.  

...now an unplanned outage lasting over a month (something I have never heard of in my 32 years in the IT industry).


The basic error here, and in some other posts, is thinking of S@H as an IT project. Wrong.

It is a science project. IT is one of the tools it uses. Like every science project, there is never enough time or money, so priorities have to be set. Right now we are not crunching, but the project marches on.

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Message 1050575 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 14:50:33 UTC - in response to Message 1050556.  

...now an unplanned outage lasting over a month (something I have never heard of in my 32 years in the IT industry).


The basic error here, and in some other posts, is thinking of S@H as an IT project. Wrong.

It is a science project. IT is one of the tools it uses. Like every science project, there is never enough time or money, so priorities have to be set. Right now we are not crunching, but the project marches on.

Seti@home will return.
Pluto is still a planet

Beep! Beep!
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Profile soft^spirit
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Message 1050588 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 19:01:45 UTC

Woohoo!! And Carolyn takes the lead!!

Janice
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Message 1050643 - Posted: 23 Nov 2010, 22:03:22 UTC - in response to Message 1050530.  

we won't mention PayPal here

You just did.

... and you won't find anyone at SETI@Home (or apparently other projects at UCB) that disagree.

Part of being at the University is a whole bundle of services, like accounting, that would otherwise need to be done by staff. Central donations is part of that, and they do not yet support Paypal.
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John McLeod VII
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Message 1050737 - Posted: 24 Nov 2010, 4:54:42 UTC - in response to Message 1050490.  

As Seti appears to have become no longer viable, you may want to find other projects to engage in. I found a few which I've now directed my resources to. Seems a waste to have spent a decade with a project that has recently really tanked. First it was 40% availability (an industry first) and now an unplanned outage lasting over a month (something I have never heard of in my 32 years in the IT industry). Too bad, but I guess it was inevitable..

Cheers..

A story I heard from a different industry:

Mechanic finds a problem with an oil pump and tries to order a replacement part. The delivery estimate comes back as 5 weeks. The mechanic's response is "ouch, I can't possibly wait that long". "I will try ordering the enclosing assembly." The delivery estimate for that came back as 3 day. The mechanic then says cool. that I can do. The comptroller of the airline then pays a visit to the poor hapless mechanic and wonders what the h***** the mechanic is doing ordering a new 777.

Moral: Uptime is good, but it can get too expensive, even if the downtime is costing $$$.

BOINC projects typically have a shoe string budget. Spending lots of money to generate five nines of uptime is just not going to happen. (OK, there are a couple of exceptions to this rule, but not very many).


BOINC WIKI
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Profile Mike
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Message 1050761 - Posted: 24 Nov 2010, 8:38:51 UTC


Only theoretical.

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 1050767 - Posted: 24 Nov 2010, 8:51:44 UTC

If or when we make a discovery they will all what to jump on the band wagon, A lot of low budget science projects make great discoverys look at columbus, He made a great discovery then it was spoilt by many who jumped on afterwards
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OzzFan
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Message 1050787 - Posted: 24 Nov 2010, 13:29:56 UTC - in response to Message 1050767.  

If or when we make a discovery they will all what to jump on the band wagon, A lot of low budget science projects make great discoverys look at columbus, He made a great discovery then it was spoilt by many who jumped on afterwards


Columbus wasn't the great man we were taught he was in school. His intentions were to conquer the new lands and enslave the natives. It wasn't spoiled by those after him, it was spoiled by him.
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Profile platium
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Message 1050793 - Posted: 24 Nov 2010, 14:13:26 UTC - in response to Message 1050787.  

i siad the new world was the great discovery after he got there it was spoilt and yes you are right about colubus
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Message boards : Technical News : Carolyn = replica (Nov 18 2010)


 
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