No way for us to search for alien with our current technology


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Message 1045251 - Posted: 31 Oct 2010, 17:01:06 UTC

I dont think that with our current technology of telescope , we can search for alien life form in the univers. This is because the things and images that we can capture with our telescope is like an image which produced a few thousand years ago. For example , if we observe a galaxy 9000 light years away , the image that we can see is the image of 9000 years old . Just imagine , what is earth looks like 9000 years ago. If you are watching us from others planet . You wont be able to spot any civilization. So if we want to find an alien civilization in space, I think we need to look faster then the speed of light . If we can look into 2x or more then the speed of light , we can get an entirely brand new universe under our observation. Perhaps it will help us to locate an alie life form. I think the whole idea of locating alien life form , is not how far we can look into is depends on how fast we can look into. We can create a giant telescope perhaps the biggest in earth , but i dont think it will help looking for alien civilization , the biggest you go , the further you go , the further you go , the worse it is .. you are only looking into history of the universe. I dont think we want history , wht we want is civilization. So I think is time to figure out how to look into space with a faster way instead of look into space and get further and further . There is no point for a bigger telescop.. but there is a point if we can get a telescop that can see faster then the speed of light...
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Message 1045430 - Posted: 1 Nov 2010, 9:32:46 UTC - in response to Message 1045251.

There is a speed limit in the Universe and its the speed of light.
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Message 1045603 - Posted: 2 Nov 2010, 8:07:07 UTC - in response to Message 1045430.
Last modified: 2 Nov 2010, 8:09:37 UTC

That one is the known fact of our human knowledge .. perhaps there is more. If depends on light and waves.. what we can see is only the past of the universe. If we want to look for alien civilization , i think we need more then the past . I do read through some articles there is actually a way to speed up the light too.. so i guess the speed of light will be able to break.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100126175921.htm this is the articles i am talking about ..

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Message 1045659 - Posted: 2 Nov 2010, 16:52:36 UTC - in response to Message 1045603.

There are two speeds for any wave packet, a group speed and a phase speed. The first is always less than c, the second can be greater since it does not carry energy/momentum. It was not clear, at least to me, which speed is covered in the article.
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Message 1045752 - Posted: 3 Nov 2010, 4:35:25 UTC - in response to Message 1045659.

Just have a very interesting question. Everything we see in this world due to the reflection of light or emission of light. We do discover things call dark matter through their gravity field , but non of us has see it with our eyes. Physic claims that nothing can go beyond the speed of light, but just curious if something can go faster then speed of light in the univers , can we see them ? Since most of the thing we see is through the reflection of light if something go faster then the light speed , in universe can we see or discover them . For example a super sonic jet fighter past by .. we will not be able to detect it through our ears.. we only can see it through our eyes.. because when we hear the sound, the fighter already gone.

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Message 1046142 - Posted: 5 Nov 2010, 1:40:32 UTC - in response to Message 1045752.

We can see things only if they are within our light cone.There is a simple explanation of this in every book about special relativity, but light cones are also valid in general relativity. See "Shadows of the mind" by Roger Penrose or other books on GR.
Tullio

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Message 1046168 - Posted: 5 Nov 2010, 4:42:53 UTC

we cannot "see" anything out of the optical spectrum. Eyes are limited to that (and direct pressure.. Thumbs work but not recommended). Yet we can watch television transmitted on radio waves, listen to audio encoded on radio waves or digital signals.

Yet the speed of light remains, even though it is exceeded in nuclear accelerators, It is still generally accepted that particals will only travel "about that fast".

For any of that to make a difference in our SETI search, we would need to find transmissions that FAR exceed the speed of light, on an order of magnitude. This is not necessary for how we are currently looking. If we can find where life WAS... we know that other life can be, And the feelings of attachment to the rest of the universe could increase. I personally find it unlikely that the earth is the only place life has formed. And it is certainly worthy of "looking" further.

If we find what "was" we are a large step closer to finding what "is".


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Message 1046205 - Posted: 5 Nov 2010, 9:58:17 UTC - in response to Message 1046168.

When I say "see" i am not referring only to the optical spectrum but to the whole EM spectrum, from radio waves to gamma rays, and also to gravitational waves, to elementary particles such as neutrinos etc. No particle accelerator can accelerate elementary particle above the speed of light, because this would violate relativity, and it has never occurred.
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Message 1046208 - Posted: 5 Nov 2010, 10:55:44 UTC - in response to Message 1046168.

we cannot "see" anything out of the optical spectrum. Eyes are limited to that (and direct pressure.. Thumbs work but not recommended). Yet we can watch television transmitted on radio waves, listen to audio encoded on radio waves or digital signals.

Yet the speed of light remains, even though it is exceeded in nuclear accelerators, It is still generally accepted that particals will only travel "about that fast".

For any of that to make a difference in our SETI search, we would need to find transmissions that FAR exceed the speed of light, on an order of magnitude. This is not necessary for how we are currently looking. If we can find where life WAS... we know that other life can be, And the feelings of attachment to the rest of the universe could increase. I personally find it unlikely that the earth is the only place life has formed. And it is certainly worthy of "looking" further.

If we find what "was" we are a large step closer to finding what "is".



That one was a good one!
Boxers see stars and galaxies every time they fight a combat on the ring!
Some cannot resist it and become K.O.

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Message 1046230 - Posted: 5 Nov 2010, 13:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1046208.

But I do feel that the further we look into , the less likely we will be able to identify for a civilization. If we looking into 3000 light years away , we are looking into things that is 3000 years ago , if we are looking into 9000 light years away , we are looking into things tht is abou 9000 years ago . Just imagine , what are we or earth 9000 years ago ... ? If we can spot a civilization in 9000 light years away or even more , which means this civilization is 9000 years ahead of us in civilization.. or perhaps the civilization is gone now. So personally I do feel that if we cannot see faster .. maybe SETI can just stick to the area of around 200-500 light years away , and wider the area of search. Perhaps we can spot some alien civilization which have almost the same technology level or a few hundreds years ahead of us. I think is it almost the time their signal for this civilization going to reach us after 200- 500 years ... Our first radio appear around 1900's so it is almost 200 years ago. We assume there is another civilization have the same level of technology with us and thier planet is around 200 light years away from us .. it is about the time it's radiowave going to reach us .. so an ideal area to search for life is around 200-500 light years away from us...

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Message 1052496 - Posted: 2 Dec 2010, 16:28:46 UTC - in response to Message 1046230.

Your hidden premise that all intelligent life evolve exactly simultaneously have no scientific basis.
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Message 1054601 - Posted: 10 Dec 2010, 11:26:54 UTC - in response to Message 1046230.
Last modified: 10 Dec 2010, 11:28:41 UTC

I doubt that we could Detect a radio wave at those distances unless it were an extremely high power, focused beam. I don't think that we are looking at those frequencies. There are really not very many stars out to those distances any way--certainly not millions. Figure out the density that 100,000,000,000 stars would have on average in a galaxy 100,000 light years across and you will see what I mean. Serious study may show that planets may have a one in a billion chance of being hospitable to evolving intelligent life.

It is very unlikely that we would detect spurious radiation at these distances--best bet is a beam from the distant past in my way of thinking. SETI is like a religion to some; to me it is like playing the lottery. Fun but not likely to pan out --wildly exciting if it does but keep your eyes wide open.

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Message 1055911 - Posted: 14 Dec 2010, 11:13:47 UTC - in response to Message 1054601.

I doubt that we could Detect a radio wave at those distances unless it were an extremely high power, focused beam. I don't think that we are looking at those frequencies. ...

Indeed so.

Just take the interplanetary radar as used at Arecibo as an example... s@h would never detect those transmissions due to looking on a different frequency AND the transmissions are never repeated...


Hence, our present directed search with the big assumption that we are looking for a deliberately dedicated beacon.

Best assumption we can make for our present capability.


Keep searchin',
Martin


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Message 1056372 - Posted: 15 Dec 2010, 19:52:40 UTC

Granted, the technology needed to detect signals eminating from a civilization around another star may not be available as of yet, I feel it will be soon. And if we were to detect signals, I feel they would most likely be from a civilization which has developed a good deal beyond where we currently are. The reason for that is because of the sheer volume of transmissions that would eminate from that civilization on a daily basis.

Now, I have heard the speed of light mentioned. One thing I wist to point out is that there is a theorized particle called the tachyon, which scientists hate. They hate it because they are supposed to be faster than light. The scientists do not like that, and whenever they come up with a new theory, and it requires tachyons... they will do whatever it takes to remove them from the theory. But that would be the topic for a different thread...
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Message 1076836 - Posted: 13 Feb 2011, 16:10:15 UTC

We are limited by the speed of light in that we can't gain instantaneous results. However I'd like to point out that humanity is a fairly late comer to the Earth which means that it is entirely possible that there are other worlds out there which have been looking for us much longer than we've been looking for them. Any way, is that really a reason to give up and not look ?
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