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Smartpatrol Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 10 Credit: 2,646,828 RAC: 0 |
> > > It is sooooooooo true. > Bush as opened a pendor's box and god knows how it will end. Invasion > of Irak was the biggest mistake in the USA history. Actually the biggest mistake that america made in my opinion was liberating france from German occupation in WW II >I would guess that there is now 10 times more muslim fanatics willing to stikes >US then ever before. Funny how there hasn't been a single terrorist attack on American soil since the start of this campaign. > Now since Bush was convince it was a good idea, and turned his > back to the international community, pissed all his allies, Correction you and your country men turned your back on America and to add insult to injury you activily went against the United States in the United Nations security counsel. Thanks....friend.... > and badly hurts USA reputation and credibility, This is not a popularity contest. What happenend on 9/11 was naked agression not unlike Pearl Harbor or Hitlers invasion of Poland. You so quickly forget the blood shed by all sides in order to keep Europe free from opression. Something your country is not willing to do for the innocent people of Iraq. Perhaps we should have given diplomacy more of a chance at sucess in WW II? Rather then going in and kicking Hirohito's and Hitlers ass? >Who will stand with the USa when the next attack comes ? Those that believe in something greater then themselves and their antiquated culture. > Because there will be others for sure. And those that perpetrate hostilities against the United States will reap the whirlwind. > How sad it is that innocent peoples in the US, madrid, Irak, Bali, etc > suffers from fanatics on all sides... Yep and you had your chance to do something about it but you chose to cast a blind eye and betray one of your oldest and most powerful friends becasue you can't get over your superiority complex and the fact that you have little to no influence on world events. "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." Willy Wonka |
Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11 |
Bravo Smartpatrol! I would add that it is rather racist to believe that Muslims (Sunni, Shia, Kurds, whatever) are incapable of democracy. If democracy is not achieved in Iraq, it could be just as easily laid at the doorstep of the French, Germans and other UN countries who have tacitly supported the insurgents in Iraq. And while we're on the subject of racism, the blame for all the trouble in the Middle East has been related back to US support of Israel, in this very thread. I'm not Jewish, but this sounds very much like anti-semitism and it offends me. Anyone who knows the history of the region will be aware that since it's inception, Israel has been blatently attacked by it's neighbors who have plainly stated that their goal is to eradicate the Jewish state. I am proud of US support for Israel, and it was that support which gave the US leverage to keep Israel out of both Gulf wars, preventing a wider racial divide in the area. |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> > > > > > It is sooooooooo true. > > Bush as opened a pendor's box and god knows how it will end. Invasion > > of Irak was the biggest mistake in the USA history. > > Actually the biggest mistake that america made in my opinion was liberating > france from German occupation in WW II Same for France. their biggest mistake has been to fight on your side against the british. You would still be a british colony today. lol hahahaha. Now if the US has been able to liberate "Europe" is because of the russian front on the east. every hitorician will confirm that. Now to show how small minded you are look at my profile... > >I would guess that there is now 10 times more muslim fanatics willing to > stikes >US then ever before. > Funny how there hasn't been a single terrorist attack on American soil since > the start of this campaign. True they are striking in other country for now > > Now since Bush was convince it was a good idea, and turned his > > back to the international community, pissed all his allies, > Correction you and your country men turned your back on America and to > add insult to injury you activily went against the United States in the United > Nations security counsel. Thanks....friend.... Well, in the security concil you need 9 votes out of 10. there was only 4 countries backing the US. If France "turned his back on USA" it was because the bush war on Irak wasn't justify. Facts show today that the French were rights. where are the WMD powell showded the coucil on false fact and satellite pictures ? Where are the links to 9/11 ? France always said it would vote no, it didn't have to use his veto, since only 4 countries were in favor of it. Now open your eyes, stop thinking the French is the cause of your problem, Millions of peoples in all country were marching the streets to say no to that war. some polls showed that more then 80% of the world were against that invasion. Now if you really believe the Irakis are better of now, take a look at this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm > > and badly hurts USA reputation and credibility, > > This is not a popularity contest. What happenend on 9/11 was naked agression > not unlike Pearl Harbor or Hitlers invasion of Poland. You so quickly forget > the blood shed by all sides in order to keep Europe free from opression. God you make me so laugh ! Every american that basicaly has no education and has nothing to say always come with that "we save you durring WWII" The people of Europe are very happy for that and they make remeberence of it every year. But this was 60 years ago. I and probably you weren't there so don't even mention it. > Something your country is not willing to do for the innocent people of Iraq. > Perhaps we should have given diplomacy more of a chance at sucess in WW II? > Rather then going in and kicking Hirohito's and Hitlers ass? The country you are talking about is giving to times more aids to foreign countries then the US. That is a fact and I will post the UN link latter when I am on my other computer (favorites) Now for the diplomacy stupidity you've just said, please compare what is campairable. > >Who will stand with the USa when the next attack comes ? > > Those that believe in something greater then themselves and their antiquated > culture. Hahahahahaha you are a very funny person. are you talking about the US ? Look at the so called coalition again. the country that are still in won't be for very long, Spain left, south korea, britain will do at the next election. You guys wanted to go alone because you are sooooo strong then finish the job alone. The problem in Irak now is an American problem. You wanted it you got it. > > Because there will be others for sure. > > And those that perpetrate hostilities against the United States will reap the > whirlwind. You see terrorism is not something you fight with guns. you see the small childrens in Irak that lost their parents because of intense us bombing, well you can put them already in the terrorist list. Kill one you make him a martyr and two will follow. > > How sad it is that innocent peoples in the US, madrid, Irak, Bali, etc > > suffers from fanatics on all sides... > > Yep and you had your chance to do something about it but you chose to cast a > blind eye and betray one of your oldest and most powerful friends becasue you > can't get over your superiority complex and the fact that you have little to > no influence on world events. Then why bother if France is in the coalition then ? Has for having no influance on world events, well You wish you country had the same world respect as France has. Fact, France is currently the 3rd military power, the only country after US and Russia that can lauch a nuclear attack from land, sea, and air. It is the only country that had the balls to publicaly opposed to bush, helping others, like Canada, where I am from anyway. In all the security council history only one country has been applauds, it was France when they replied to the old Europe comment and the powell bullshit speech. Ha the French, You guys can call your chips freedom fries, put T-shirt saying Irak now France after, throw your bottle of french wine on the streets, it won't change anything. Now go and vote for your Moron president, you both have the same level of education and you make a good pair. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 |
Soaring Fuel Costs Undermining Airlines And how many billion$ of dollar$ did it cost the US taxpayers when the government bailed out the airlines after 9/11? |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> Bravo Smartpatrol! > > I would add that it is rather racist to believe that Muslims (Sunni, Shia, > Kurds, whatever) are incapable of democracy. If democracy is not achieved in > Iraq, it could be just as easily laid at the doorstep of the French, Germans > and other UN countries who have tacitly supported the insurgents in Iraq. Who said they were incapable of democracy ? Democracy has to come from the inside not from an invaders. Now talking about democracy you guys better make it work in your own country first. You look very funny with your crapy voting machine, balots lost in the mail (exactly where the democrats had 69% in 2000) etc. A new one !!! Did you ear that germans friend ? We are supporting the insurgents !!! Common Tom, you use to be better then that ! > And while we're on the subject of racism, the blame for all the trouble in the > Middle East has been related back to US support of Israel, in this very > thread. I'm not Jewish, but this sounds very much like anti-semitism and it > offends me. Anyone who knows the history of the region will be aware that > since it's inception, Israel has been blatently attacked by it's neighbors who > have plainly stated that their goal is to eradicate the Jewish state. I am > proud of US support for Israel, and it was that support which gave the US > leverage to keep Israel out of both Gulf wars, preventing a wider racial > divide in the area. They have been attacked by their neighbors because they took their lands. I am not antisemit, but I am not anti palestinians. Its funny how palestinians could be treated like animal but don't touch the jews and say anything wrong about Israels policies and colony. |
Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11 |
> How said they were incapable of democracy ? Democracy has to come from the > inside > not from an invaders. Now talking about democracy you guys better make it Steven Macy said it in post #41020. > work > in your own vountry first. You look very funny with your crapy voting > machine, > blobs lost in the mail (exactly where the democrats had 69% in 2000) etc. > A new one !!! Dis you ear that germans friend ? We are supporting the > insurgents !!! > Common Tom, you use to be better then that ! > Marc, I said "tacitly supported" the insurgents. This means that by remaining silent as to their tactics and atrocities, they have the equivalant of your support. Democracy might come from the inside, but with the iron grip Saddam had on his country and the military, how would it have happened? If you think the Iraqis could have defied Saddam and his army, you must believe in fairies. So, why are you changing the subject--we are discussing democracy in Iraq, so don't you worry your leftist brain about America's democratic process, which is just as corrupt for the Democrats as the Republicans, and it's none of your concern how we've been electing our leaders for 200 years. > They have been attacked by their neighbors because they took their lands. > Am am not antisemit, but I am not anti palestinians. Its funny how > palestinians > could be treated like animal but don't touch the jews and say anything wrong > about Israels policies and colony. > Whose lands these are is the subject of a 2,500 year dispute (maybe longer); I'm glad you have now settled it by decreeing that the land belongs to the Arabs. If you look at the History of Israel and it's neighbors, the UN (your favorite international body) assigned territory to both the Palestinians and the Israelis. Israel's Arab neighbors attacked, while clearly stating that their aim was to destroy the Jewish state. Every time their neighbors attacked, Israel repelled their armies and advanced deeper into neighboring countries. These occupied territories remain in Israel's hands as a military buffer, except for the Sinai, which was returned to Egypt after a peace treaty was signed. No one else has agreed to abandon their military stance toward Israel, thus other lands have not been returned. Israel has the same right to defend itself that France does, but unlike France, the Israelis are good at it. So, once again, rather than address my point (that some postings in this thread sound anti-semitic), you change the subject to mistreatment of Palistinians--a completely different point. Please respond to my argument rather than bringing up new complaints. "Common [Marc], you use to be better then that !" |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
*****but unlike France, the Israelis are good at it.***** Yea you are right. Israel do defend themself very well. Especialy when you fight kids throwing rocks with a tank.....Tanks that comes from US funds aid. Now please do me a favor and read this About France you must refer to the Great and second war ? Well in 1939 NO COUNTRY would have stoped the Nazi army. Europe as been very lucky to have The british on an island. That is where the the effort of stopping hitler has started. The same for US and Canada, It's a chance that there was an ocean in between.... Now take some time (it might take some time though) to read the history of France. You will see that they have been in the middle of all conflict in Europe since 1200 years. They are still there today, and it is currently the most powerfull military country in Europe. Military Expenditure Total 2002 Rank Country Military expenditures - dollar figure 1 United States $ 276,700,000,000 2 China $ 55,910,000,000 3 France $ 46,500,000,000 4 Japan $ 39,520,000,000 5 Germany $ 38,800,000,000 6 United Kingdom $ 31,700,000,000 7 Italy $ 20,200,000,000 8 Saudi Arabia $ 18,300,000,000 9 Brazil $ 13,408,000,000 Since you seem to be very interrested (obssesed) by France you might also read this <img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=2384&trans=off"><img src="http://img98.exs.cx/img98/1999/hamradio.gif"><img src="http://img54.exs.cx/img54/3872/cqkey.gif"> |
Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11 |
> About France you must refer to the Great and second war ? Well in 1939 > NO COUNTRY would have stoped the Nazi army. Europe as been very lucky to > have The british on an island. That is where the the effort of stopping > hitler has started. The same for US and Canada, It's a chance that there > was an ocean in between.... > Sorry Marc, I was trying to be clever, but I forgot you have dual Canadian/French citizenship. I like Canada so much, that's how I think of you. But I don't particulary hate the French, I'm just angry they supported Saddam so long during the "Oil for Food" program, then opposed removing Saddam--that smelled like a strong conflict of interest. But your point that no country could have stopped Hitler is well taken. You must agree with me then that the Iraqi people could not have deposed Saddam's tanks, planes, 4th largest Army in the world and threatened use of WDM (that he always inferred he had and never allowed confirmation). |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
FBI Investigating Halliburton Contracts About time !!! lol Even Michael Moores was referring to that in his movie. "It's gona be good for the business, bad for the people..." |
Carl Cuseo Send message Joined: 18 Jan 02 Posts: 652 Credit: 34,312 RAC: 0 |
Where does GWB get the notion that his 'crusade' can succeed when for so many centuries these muslim lands have embraced the authority of their religious leaders. It seems to me no amount of democratizing can undermine the patriotism that in these lands is a religious issue based on the authority granted to the mullas through belief in the Qoran. GWBs crusade is not such a good idea....cc |
Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 |
> About time !!! lol Even Michael Moores was referring to that in his movie. > "It's gona be good for the business, bad for the people..." > I wonder if anythings gonna happen to Halliburton. California cant even get the FERC to force ENRON and the other utilities to refund the billion$ they stole from us. |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> > About France you must refer to the Great and second war ? Well in 1939 > > NO COUNTRY would have stoped the Nazi army. Europe as been very lucky to > > have The british on an island. That is where the the effort of stopping > > hitler has started. The same for US and Canada, It's a chance that there > > was an ocean in between.... > > > Sorry Marc, I was trying to be clever, but I forgot you have dual > Canadian/French citizenship. I like Canada so much, that's how I think of > you. But I don't particulary hate the French, I'm just angry they supported > Saddam so long during the "Oil for Food" program, then opposed removing > Saddam--that smelled like a strong conflict of interest. Fight against wood, drug prescription, etc aside, Canada and US are the stongest allied ever. No other country in the world has a greater economic exchange then Our countries. Canada is an example of democracy and a very peacefull country. Now you probably know that Canada also strongly opposed to the war in Irak ? Canada's war effort during the great and the second world war was greater then the US per capita. You can't consider Canada as a corrupt country that opposed to this war for conflict of interrest like France. Why did Canada opposed to that war ? Could it be because it was just a very bad idea, for false reasons ? Could it be that the reasons for invading Irak where wrong. It's funny now everybody says it's a good thing that Sadam is not in power anymore, but did you forget that the reasons was for WMD ? Would the american peoples had approved this war if the government had said the truth ? What really piss me off in this is that your government uses the 9/11 attacked, brainwhashed the american with terrorist and WMD in order to do what they wanted to. Invade Irak. Period. The american economy is largely base on war. Since the cold war is over it needs new enemy to make the machine turn. And how funny it is that all Bush team has either oil or military interrest ? You see, we might never know the real reasons behind France opposition to that war, but we do know what were the reasons for the US to start it. It was not for WMD, It was not for removing a dictator, it was not for rebuilding that country or any other bullshit like that. It was for BUSINESS !!! And at least now France can't be blame for having the blood of tens of thousands innocent peoples on their hands. Wich one is to blame ? The one that illigaly invade a sovereign country that poses no threats for his own interrest, and killing god knows how many innocent in the process. Or a country that opposed for "maybe" conflict of interrest but that doesn't killed anyone in the process ? Another thing wich really annoyes me is the fact that WE have helped Sadam for many years. Nobody ever complains he was a dictator when he was fighting the evil Iran ! How many WMD did the US, France, Russia has given to him ? Chimical Ahli had uses French fighter jets and Germans toxic gas to kill 5000 Irakis. Where was the so good American intention then ? Where were the world liberators ? You can say whatever you want Tom. It wont change my mind and the mind of a very vast majority of the world population that in this story, The US were wrong and the one to be blamed, not France. <img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=2384&trans=off"><img src="http://img98.exs.cx/img98/1999/hamradio.gif"><img src="http://img54.exs.cx/img54/3872/cqkey.gif"> |
Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11 |
> Fight against wood, drug prescription, etc aside, Canada and US are the > stongest allied ever. No other country in the world has a greater economic > exchange then Our countries. Canada is an example of democracy and a very > peacefull country. Now you probably know that Canada also strongly opposed > to the war in Irak ? Canada's war effort during the great and the second > world war was greater then the US per capita. You can't consider Canada as > a corrupt country that opposed to this war for conflict of interrest like > France. Why did Canada opposed to that war ? Could it be because it was just > a very bad idea, for false reasons ? Could it be that the reasons for > invading Irak where wrong. It's funny now everybody says it's a good thing > that Sadam is not in power anymore, but did you forget that the reasons was > for WMD ? Would the american peoples had approved this war if the government > had said the truth ? What really piss me off in this is that your government > uses the 9/11 attacked, brainwhashed the american with terrorist and WMD > in order to do what they wanted to. Invade Irak. Period. The american economy > is largely base on war. Since the cold war is over it needs new enemy to make > the machine turn. And how funny it is that all Bush team has either oil or > military interrest ? You see, we might never know the real reasons behind > France opposition to that war, but we do know what were the reasons for the > US > to start it. It was not for WMD, It was not for removing a dictator, it was > not > for rebuilding that country or any other bullshit like that. It was for > BUSINESS !!! And at least now France can't be blame for having the blood of > tens of thousands innocent peoples on their hands. Wich one is to blame ? > The one that illigaly invade a sovereign country that poses no threats for > his > own interrest, and killing god knows how many innocent in the process. Or a > country that opposed for "maybe" conflict of interrest but that doesn't > killed > anyone in the process ? > > Another thing wich really annoyes me is the fact that WE have helped Sadam > for many years. Nobody ever complains he was a dictator when he was fighting > the evil Iran ! How many WMD did the US, France, Russia has given to him ? > Chimical Ahli had uses French fighter jets and Germans toxic gas to kill > 5000 Irakis. Where was the so good American intention then ? Where were > the world liberators ? > > You can say whatever you want Tom. It wont change my mind and the mind of > a very vast majority of the world population that in this story, The US > were wrong and the one to be blamed, not France. > Marc, I like Canada. I'm not being funny, I really like Canada. I know they also opposed the war in Iraq, but they don't have the "dirty hands" that France and Germany have. In Canada's case, they opposed the war on principle, and I respect that. There are many in American who oppose the war on principle, and while I feel otherwise, I respect them also. What I do not respect is anyone who has taken a position on the war based on a personal dislike for George Bush. I have said in other posts that many people hate Bush (Michael Moore, Neo Amsterdam, Carl Cuseo) and that seems to be the real reason they oppose him and the war and even America. I'm not sure about your reasons, but if you fail to look at the war logically and without passion, but only in the light of your feelings for George Bush, then you are wrong to do that, and your conclusion is suspect. I never thought I could change you mind, or anyone else's mind. I thought this thread was about giving one's own political views. For myself, an opinion has no weight if it is not backed up with relevant facts and logical analysis. (Not name-calling and insults.) |
N/A Send message Joined: 18 May 01 Posts: 3718 Credit: 93,649 RAC: 0 |
I hate making back to back posts, but I have to say this: It doesn't matter who wins the election if the People do not make their Governance their cause. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and once those in power are allowed to do whatever they wish, the power will no longer rest in the hands and conscience of Man. |
Carl Cuseo Send message Joined: 18 Jan 02 Posts: 652 Credit: 34,312 RAC: 0 |
>.....people hate Bush (Michael Moore, Neo Amsterdam, Carl Cuseo) .... Why would you infer from my comment that I hate anybody? It's like the cartoon of the little family standing out front of their burned down house- captioned with momma telling crying daughter: No, No Emily- we dont hate YOU- it's the horrible thing you've done that we hate. I do not hate GWB- but his actions turn my stomach I hate THAT....cc |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
> Marc, I like Canada. I'm not being funny, I really like Canada. I know they > also opposed the war in Iraq, but they don't have the "dirty hands" that > France and Germany have. In Canada's case, they opposed the war on principle, > and I respect that. There are many in American who oppose the war on > principle, and while I feel otherwise, I respect them also. What I do not > respect is anyone who has taken a position on the war based on a personal > dislike for George Bush. I have said in other posts that many people hate > Bush (Michael Moore, Neo Amsterdam, Carl Cuseo) and that seems to be the real > reason they oppose him and the war and even America. I'm not sure about your > reasons, but if you fail to look at the war logically and without passion, but > only in the light of your feelings for George Bush, then you are wrong to do > that, and your conclusion is suspect. I was ans still is against this war for principle, and I am not sure that it is different for the French and the German. Appart from the fact that he has cheated the 2000 results, the world knew little about Bush before 9/11 attacks. What made the world, and I really mean the hole wide world to hate bush was is lies and justification to attack Irak and rush into that war at any price and his arrogant policy towards those who opposed to this invasion. I am not oppose to this war because it's GWB but because it is wrong. I would still be oppose to it if the president have been Clinton (My favorite of all). Talking about Clinton, I find it is very Ironic that the politician and the public attacked him because he lied in the Monica story. That didn't hurt anyone, it was his private life, etc. But bush lies cost Billions of dollars, life of youg soldiers, and innocent Irakis. Now those who wants to tell the truth about bush are called unpatriotic. It looks from abroad that the republican has much more politacal power in the US. It is because of lobby ? I don't know, but it surely look stupid when comparing Clinton's lies with those of Bush. > I never thought I could change you mind, or anyone else's mind. I thought > this thread was about giving one's own political views. For myself, an > opinion has no weight if it is not backed up with relevant facts and logical > analysis. (Not name-calling and insults.) I know you didn't want to change my mind. It was said in a French way of saying things. When translated it doesn't sound the same. Same misunderstanding for Canada, I knew you were not jokking about the fact that you like Canada. Language barrier again... Friendly Marc EDIT Did you read the link I have posted earlier about american aid to Israel ? <img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=2384&trans=off"><img src="http://img98.exs.cx/img98/1999/hamradio.gif"><img src="http://img54.exs.cx/img54/3872/cqkey.gif"> |
Darth Dogbytes™ Send message Joined: 30 Jul 03 Posts: 7512 Credit: 2,021,148 RAC: 0 |
Just a thought... President Harry S. Truman had a plaque on his desk that said, "The buck stops here." Although President George W. Bush doesn't have one, but if he did it would read, "The buck passes here." Just like a captain of a naval vessel, the President of the United States is responsible for everything that happens on his watch. It says alot about his personality. Account frozen... |
Petit Soleil Send message Joined: 17 Feb 03 Posts: 1497 Credit: 70,934 RAC: 0 |
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N/A Send message Joined: 18 May 01 Posts: 3718 Credit: 93,649 RAC: 0 |
...President Harry S. Truman had a plaque on his desk that said, "The buck stops here." You haven't read this month's MAD Magazine, have you (#447)? From "How George W. Bush 'Stacks Up' Against the Other 42 U.S. Presidents"... "Bush's sign reads 'Ask Rumsfeld or Cheney'" "Even with conclusive spy-satellite photos showing Soviet nuclear weapons being moved into Cuba, Kennedy was able to resist plunging America into war." I'll have to stop here, or else I might be accused of having a sense of humor. FTR: He's ranked better than 19 previous presidents, and worse than 22. |
Darth Dogbytes™ Send message Joined: 30 Jul 03 Posts: 7512 Credit: 2,021,148 RAC: 0 |
Bush administration uses "Tax Man" to punish critics. Account frozen... |
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