"Are We Alone?" The Great Debate

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Message 1090664 - Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 19:07:03 UTC

oh my god,Idont know english
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Profile Fred J. Verster
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Message 1090764 - Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 0:22:57 UTC - in response to Message 1090665.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2011, 0:27:20 UTC


it's sure that life in universe exists. But most of them would be like unicellular oranisms, because they can live in an extreme Environment (like thermophilic archaea).
But higher developed life(like vertebrate) need an "stable" Environmt for a long time (sure there had been a lot of mass exticntions in the history of our planet- but they had been necessary for the human development).

the paramter in our solarsystem are nearly perfect for the formation of live (the mass etc. of the sun (G2V), the mass of the earth, distance- earth moon, jupiter as a blockade for asteroids, the position of our solar system in our galaxy, the proportion of Elements heavier as He, "stable Neighbourhood" without cosmic disasters like supernovas etc...). All this parameter are nearly perfectly set, that it looks like mere chance that we exist.

Not quoted.


Don't forget the importance, of the earth-axis, not being 90oC, but tilted, ~60oC?

You mentioned already some Blue Prints, which are necessary for (human)life(?)
Even 1 or more moons may appear to be necessary. (Causing the tides)

Even if, life as we 'know it', is pure random, other life(forms) are likely,
IMHO, to exist.
(If I was on an Alien Ship, with the remaining people of a dying planet,
I would be very carefull to approach the earth, seeing the state its currently
in, Afghanistan, Japan, Mianmar, etc. Sometimes makes me wonder, if an earthquake can be coarsed by puping out billions of tons oil and gas, these substances have a mass, need space and when removed, ground will sink.
In the earea, in the Netherlands where they take the gas, the ground has sunk
0.5meter in several years after the extraction of gas!)
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Message 1091157 - Posted: 28 Mar 2011, 12:29:19 UTC

I would argue just the opposite about earthquakes being caused by the extraction of oil and gas. Although it does leave a void (that can be partially filled in with water or something) the extraction process also relieves the pressure built up by the movement of the earth's plates. If we could go back in time (the way back machine) it would be fun to measure the violence of the earthquakes then and compare them to todays quake violence. It may be that in the ring of fire area, volcanoes relieved those pressures. After all volcanoes are the earths pressure vents. Just my opinion JMO
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Message 1099091 - Posted: 20 Apr 2011, 12:18:35 UTC - in response to Message 1068672.  
Last modified: 20 Apr 2011, 12:25:36 UTC

I couldnt agree more, i joined SETI because of a personal experience i had, one would expect life on other planets no matter how intelligent or non intelligent when you consider the numbers in just in our visible patch of the sky.
look at all the odd one off discoveries thought never to happen again then years later with better technology and more people being aware and looking in new areas find these one off's are not one off's.
If it wasnt for my experience i would still say we are not alone or a one off, history has proven that one off's do occur more than once and time will show this to be true with advancements in technology, education, and people like the ones behind SETI and their supporters who genuinely believe put in the effort to make it happen.
why wait till the last few hundred years before the sun ends its life to reach out and find its too late to find either other intelligence that could help us relocate or find a new planet like ours to support our distant children's life and give us enough time to get their.
with the technology we have now its a start and will be more advanced as time goes by, much like the first computer, look where that technology is today and the discoveries made since then in the known universe and beyond as well as on and within our own planet, each year there are new discoveries of species in the oceans thought never to exist, where a one off or extinct. so why not in the ocean of space cant there be a planet supporting life and more than one planet supporting Intelligent life whom i know has already found us just as we will find them when time and technology are right but to get there we need to continue looking, (Government funding would help..lol)
MJC
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Message 1099119 - Posted: 20 Apr 2011, 14:06:28 UTC - in response to Message 1091157.  

I would argue just the opposite about earthquakes being caused by the extraction of oil and gas. Although it does leave a void (that can be partially filled in with water or something) the extraction process also relieves the pressure built up by the movement of the earth's plates. If we could go back in time (the way back machine) it would be fun to measure the violence of the earthquakes then and compare them to todays quake violence. It may be that in the ring of fire area, volcanoes relieved those pressures. After all volcanoes are the earths pressure vents. Just my opinion JMO


You've got a very strong point, vulcano's and hydrothermal vents, are (a form of)
pressure outlets. And I think you're right about that.(IMHO)

And, we know almost nothing about the magnitude of earthquakes, a few thousend
years back, let alone before the last ice-age.

And going back further, there was only one big 'continent', which has been in a constant move and split up, to, as we know it now. But how many and how powerfull those 'shifts' were, and the magnitude of the up and downwards movements, we can only guess. Archeological founds can (partly) shed a light on this.
( A Time(-Back)-Machine would come in handy, if 'we' can go back, otherwise
we have redo history again...... ;) )

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Message 1100964 - Posted: 27 Apr 2011, 5:50:43 UTC - in response to Message 1099091.  

just as we will find them when time and technology are right
MJC


Well we'd best get a move on before our civilisation collapses under its own weight. Surely we have the rest of this century at best?....

Why is this thread still under news? Are we expecting some and will the thread title be changed from 'Are we alone?' to 'We are not alone?'.
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Message 1100979 - Posted: 27 Apr 2011, 7:53:56 UTC - in response to Message 1100964.  

just as we will find them when time and technology are right
MJC


Well we'd best get a move on before our civilisation collapses under its own weight. Surely we have the rest of this century at best?....

Why is this thread still under news? Are we expecting some and will the thread title be changed from 'Are we alone?' to 'We are not alone?'.

I am still waiting for some. I can change the title, if the Setizens what it.
Pluto will always be a planet to me.

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Message 1100986 - Posted: 27 Apr 2011, 8:38:23 UTC - in response to Message 1100979.  

I can change the title, if the Setizens what [want?] it.

Why should the title be changed? It's the topic of a one-year-old news item, which by (wanted) "discussion" remains near the top of the subforum.

Gruß,
Gundolf
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Message 1101341 - Posted: 28 Apr 2011, 12:02:15 UTC

We need to stop debating the subject and just keep looking.
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Message 1102154 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 15:40:21 UTC - in response to Message 1101341.  

We need to stop debating the subject and just keep looking.


Which is not getting easier with the allen array gone now...
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Message 1103928 - Posted: 6 May 2011, 17:59:50 UTC

You have a point there Chris.
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Message 1105049 - Posted: 11 May 2011, 1:07:27 UTC
Last modified: 11 May 2011, 1:11:04 UTC

For Joe or anyone else unable to download the video file....................

I have it downloaded and can put on a CD for you. Just PM me with the name and address to send it to.

And at no cost to you. (USA only) You can't beat that!!

This applies to "Great_Debate" 248 MB mp4 video only. I have no others on hand.
Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....
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Message 1111107 - Posted: 29 May 2011, 17:16:52 UTC - in response to Message 1105112.  

Well what bothers me is the knowledge that in Egypt is a crypt, circa 2500bc, like 4511 years ago, that has a lintel over the door with a number of carvings on it. One is a side on view of a helicopter. Who had choppers in the years around, or before, 2500bc?
Who made the machined cube of steel dug out of a coal seam. Was Soddam and Gomorra the result of atomic explosions. What were Indian Varamas, what kind of flying machines were they.
Maybe there is crustal shift and those things were from the last people to inhabit this rock, 40,000 years ago. If crustal shift is true, when is the next shift of Antartica and where will it end up. Like 2000nm where?
The USA Space program took a lot of funny photos of flying objects. Who flew those things. Lt Shamus O'Farrel RAN in 1953 met a pair of funny objects flying between Goulbourn and Nowra in NSW Australia, picked up on RADAR, since O'Farrel was flying a Fairy Sea Fury fighter aircraft and the radar reported that they, the objects, left the scene at 1400mph, at a time in our history when supersonic was 750mph+. O'Farrel was on 808 Squadron, like me, at the time. He reckoned they were real. And the film from the gun camera is still a secret.
I'm too old to worry about what is going to happen in our future, I've had a heap of fun in my past, but I'll bet there are some surprises to come.
MaxG.



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Message 1111686 - Posted: 31 May 2011, 9:43:16 UTC - in response to Message 1105112.  
Last modified: 31 May 2011, 9:46:20 UTC

Nice graphics...now i wonder what the continents would look like after they crash into each other again. And when they do, would life on earth cease to exist? I read somewhere (for the life of me i do not recall where), that when this does happen, life on earth would die. Though I do not believe that for a single second. This planet has been through hell and back and I doubt the continents crashing together again would end life on earth.

I believe continental drift has happened more than this one time on our planet. So lets say (aliens, Atlantis or whatever you want to call it) did exist on earth prior to the continental drift we know of today, would the drift be enough to basically wipe out any evidence of their civilizations?
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

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Message 1111755 - Posted: 31 May 2011, 14:25:25 UTC

Stephen Hawking once said all the continents will gather at the South pole in about a billion years.
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Message 1111767 - Posted: 31 May 2011, 15:36:19 UTC - in response to Message 1111719.  

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Message 1111894 - Posted: 1 Jun 2011, 3:01:36 UTC - in response to Message 1111767.  

Here is a possible explanantion about Sodom and Gomorra.




Good read. I shall also watch their video segment in the next few days.
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

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Message 1116232 - Posted: 12 Jun 2011, 12:59:39 UTC - in response to Message 988575.  

Please give me an evidence for a limited life span of a technological intelligence, like I read it all the time.
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Message 1118337 - Posted: 17 Jun 2011, 18:01:19 UTC

I like to think that just maybe, out there in a very big science lab is a bloke looking into a test tube in which is a very slow moving, expanding, little blob of light. He is waiting for the expansion of that light to hit the sides of the test tube. He doesn't know of course, that, that little blob of light is our big bang. His micro seconds are our thousands of light years in time. Maybe there is also another guy in another lab watching his test tube to find out when his blob of light is going to hit the test tube. And his blob is two big bangs. etc,etc, etc forever.
Or maybe there are other dimensions and other people and many other universes.
If there was a God, any being likened to a God who had any sort of brain at all, we would have one well organised and controlled society.That would be common sense wouldn't it?
If "he" was, there would be just one belief among all of the people, he would ensure that there was only one, and there would be no wars, violence and crass stupidity.Which are rampant in our socities.
But it seems there probably isn't a God or anything that might be a God or Gods, because no God would allow that to happen. Men would, could and do, continually. Ergo no Gods just men. I've had 81 years to be convinced and its yet to happen.
Ezekiel did see a space craft etc, and that Book of the Old Testament was researched by a NASA scientist and he came up with a design that would be a space craft, if we could power it, which we cannot. Even after all that time, only God knows how many years have passed since the days of Ezekiel. It's also in a 19th century book. VBG.
There are many examples of other lives on this planet, and things that seem to mean that we are simply repeating past lives of other people.
In Egypt there is a Crypt, opened up in 1880 sometime, and over the doorway of this 4500 year old hole in the ground, is a carved stone lintel, on which, among other carvings, is a side on view of a Helicopter, which was invented by us in 1904 or 5 or so. Who had choppers 4500 years ago.
I know its silly but www.crystalinks.com is worth a read.
Here in Australia at Lake Mungo, or what was Lake Mungo, it dried up 20,000 years ago, there are the bones of men, and women from 60,000 years ago. Their DNA is extinct, it's not ours, and they are similar to us in features and skeletal structure. There are not just one or two either.
And that's in a place which was first???? settled 40,000 years ago.
Question is, how long is our lot going to survive now that the planets population of Homo Sapiens is increasing at 2 per second, from a population of 6.6 billion.
Ever thought that we might have enough people on this planet that we could emulate ants.
Maybe Global Warming and Co2 are very minor problems, but that current birth rate, is going to be hard to stop, as is the movement of people in the years to come, if it continues.
Steven Hawkins is well worth listening to.
VBG
MaxG.






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Message 1134718 - Posted: 1 Aug 2011, 5:16:58 UTC

There is such a possibility:Alien people’s culture are different from ours.Maybe they are finding us in another way,but we don't know...
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