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Message 976488 - Posted: 7 Mar 2010, 11:23:21 UTC
Last modified: 7 Mar 2010, 11:26:29 UTC

An interesting article from an ex-Microsoft developer:

How Linux Can Achieve Faster World Domination


Some of the comments in there show a Microsoft bias in favouring the use of Mono over that of C/C++. There are other comments that are rather interesting:


I was told by an Intel engineer that his company invests 1 percent of the resources into Linux as it does to Windows. It is only because writing Linux drivers is so much easier that Intel is seen as a quite credible supporter of it.


Free software is better for the free market than proprietary software.


The idea of Google dominating strong AI is scarier than Microsoft’s dominance with Windows and Office.


The Linux desktop can revive the idea of rich applications


... the long tail of applications which demonstrate the power of free software, all need a coat of polish. Modern tools, more attention to detail, and another doubling of users will help.


... I cite Linus a fair amount because he is quotable and has the most credibility with the outside world ;-) Although, Bill Gates has said some nice things about Linux as well.




Can Microsoft afford a re-write to revamp a new Windows before they descend into impossible unmaintainability or die under the weight of malware and user disenchantment? How long can they persist with lock-in tactics rather than any true innovation?

So who might win the next race? Google Chrome, Apple, one of the many Linux distros, or some unknown spinoff with very cheap 'nettop' devices offering corporate cloud computing?


Interesting times...

Cheers,
Martin
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Message 976508 - Posted: 7 Mar 2010, 14:32:30 UTC - in response to Message 976488.

from what I read, he wants every linux faction to stop what they are doing and all recompile their kernels in a single code. which would defeat the idea of different flavors of Linux. single code, means single OS, means he wants a MS type plan for Linux. I do agree that it would be much more simple to just adopt 1 code "style" and have everyone work their magic from there. However, I assume that the reason users code using C/C++ is that thats the coding they know best. I'd hate to think that I'd need to learn french so I can speak english better.
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Message 976671 - Posted: 8 Mar 2010, 5:37:52 UTC

Having used linux for over a decade and participated in the help newsgroups for as long I have seen that almost all the installation problems are related to the availability of drivers for the latest hardware. And most of those problems are related to the new hardware in laptops which is because of their constant efforts to increase the pounds of excrement in a sock too small. These problems would not arise if linux were pre-installed by manufacturers. Because of pirating Windows MS requires payment per sold computer regardless of the OS.

This last step is what needs be eliminated. I view the pirating issue as a convenient excuse in Gates' war on linux. Has anyone forgotten his allegation that linux is anti-profit and therefore anti-american? That is a fine position to take when one is the only game in town.

The problem with the non-profit nature of linux is not that it is anti-american. The problem is there is no money for advertising linux per se. Something comparable comparable to Intel Inside is needed, low key and direct.

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Message 976740 - Posted: 8 Mar 2010, 16:29:59 UTC - in response to Message 976671.

the problem with advertising linux is that you have all those flavors. Its like Baskin Robbins advertising 1 flavor of ice cream on each commercial ad. That wouldnt work very well. It would be nice if a linux tutorial was installed with an OS so users could wander through their system. Now there is a help section on every linux OS that usually is less helpful than google.
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Message 977044 - Posted: 10 Mar 2010, 4:18:31 UTC - in response to Message 976740.

the problem with advertising linux is that you have all those flavors. Its like Baskin Robbins advertising 1 flavor of ice cream on each commercial ad. That wouldnt work very well. It would be nice if a linux tutorial was installed with an OS so users could wander through their system. Now there is a help section on every linux OS that usually is less helpful than google.


Generic ads are hardly anything new. How about those happy California cows and the Canuck cows who want to be? Ads for cotton clothing as well as made in America clothing are also common. Intel Inside is about as generic as you can get for all non-apple computer manufacturers. AMD doesn't advertise so there is no particular point to Intel Inside on TV. AMD doesn't even do stickers. Then there are the Florida Orange Juice ads that even run here in Florida apparently because California Orange growers advertize here. I can probably come back to this in an hour with many other generic ads I have seen recently and over the years.

As for the flavors of linux I said installed by the manufacturer. Over 80% of users use only a browser, email and some kind of text editor. If they had not used Windows before they would never know they were not using Windows. Most people would not know their computer was using linux much less care. In return the manufacturers get to undercut the price of Window machines and offer everything both MS and Apple offer in their highest priced versions and then some. They can also offer free updates Never pay for a service pack again! as one example. I don't write ad copy.

While they are offering all this they are selling the same computers cheaper for no payment to MS. Imagine an ad with the same hardware, different prices for MS functionality and all the same price and a lower price for all the linux machines having the same features.

I do not write ad copy. Those two are obvious.

=====
For the record I prefer AMD over Intel but that is another thread.

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Message 977149 - Posted: 10 Mar 2010, 18:02:28 UTC - in response to Message 977044.

you are right, NOT!!! I can see it now. Use linux now. then flash 31 flavors across the screen then explain which ones were for novices and other for highly experienced users. How its safer for PC users and how most are absolutely free with free updates as I'm sure this can all be conveyed in a 30 second Commercial ad
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Message 977243 - Posted: 10 Mar 2010, 23:44:36 UTC - in response to Message 977149.

... I'm sure this can all be conveyed in a 30 second Commercial ad

IBM made a series of general adverts a few years ago to introduce Linux.

See what you think:

Linux advertisement from IBM, released in September 2003: "The Future is Open"

Linux advertisement from IBM: Linux is Ready

IBM Linux Commercial


I rather like the last one of those three. The lead characters are famously in a very long running advertisement cartoon strip series published in various professional IT/Computing magazines and newsletters. Quite a giggle to see them 'animated' in a TV advertisement! The scene is also rather clever for introducing an IT manager's worse nightmare, to then wake up to a much better reality...


My pithy comment is:

The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)

Keep searchin',
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Message 977254 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 0:09:12 UTC - in response to Message 977149.

you are right, NOT!!! I can see it now. Use linux now. then flash 31 flavors across the screen then explain which ones were for novices and other for highly experienced users. How its safer for PC users and how most are absolutely free with free updates as I'm sure this can all be conveyed in a 30 second Commercial ad


When installed by the manufacturer the user only knows the apps not the flavor. Flavor is immaterial to all but the pros and some bored amateurs such as myself. Vendors have several favors which can be set to automatically update to choose from.

The end user need never know and certainly no need to care it is not Windows.

There is no need for an ad to even mention there are flavors.

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Message 977287 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 1:51:30 UTC - in response to Message 977254.

There is no need for an ad to even mention there are flavors.

And the California Legislature will pass its budget before deadline. ROTFLAMO!!

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Message 977308 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 2:54:40 UTC - in response to Message 977287.

There is no need for an ad to even mention there are flavors.

And the California Legislature will pass its budget before deadline. ROTFLAMO!!


The ads for California cows mentions no particular dairies. The ads for Florida and California oranges mention no growers by name. The ads for cotton do not use names of individual mills. Intel does not use the names of particular manufacturers.

If it is impossible to avoid mentioning brand names why are there so many examples of people doing the impossible?

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Message 977397 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 18:30:30 UTC - in response to Message 977308.

ok you slipped from OS to hardware. Microsoft advertises Microsoft not HP or dell or any other Manufacturer of Computers. The same would apply to Linux wouldnt it. With so many flavors I'd assume that Suse redhat Ubuntu Debian, Mandriva to name a few would want the majority of airtime for commercials. Commercials that will certainly cause confusion to the general population. remember most people have probably heard the word Linux but have no clue that Linux is just the Generic name for All Versions of the Linux OSes. How confused do you think they'd become when they find out that there are dozens of choices.

Microsoft and Apple are probably right. Most folks just don't like having a choice.
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Message 977412 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 20:07:56 UTC - in response to Message 977397.

ok you slipped from OS to hardware. Microsoft advertises Microsoft not HP or dell or any other Manufacturer of Computers. The same would apply to Linux wouldnt it. With so many flavors I'd assume that Suse redhat Ubuntu Debian, Mandriva to name a few would want the majority of airtime for commercials. Commercials that will certainly cause confusion to the general population. remember most people have probably heard the word Linux but have no clue that Linux is just the Generic name for All Versions of the Linux OSes. How confused do you think they'd become when they find out that there are dozens of choices.

Microsoft and Apple are probably right. Most folks just don't like having a choice.


Someone else posted three IBM ads promoting generic linux without a flavor name. You certainly read that post.

It has been done. You know it has been done. Therefore it can be done again.

What is your real objection?

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Message 977429 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 21:27:11 UTC - in response to Message 977308.

There is no need for an ad to even mention there are flavors.

And the California Legislature will pass its budget before deadline. ROTFLAMO!!


The ads for California cows mentions no particular dairies. The ads for Florida and California oranges mention no growers by name. The ads for cotton do not use names of individual mills. Intel does not use the names of particular manufacturers.

If it is impossible to avoid mentioning brand names why are there so many examples of people doing the impossible?

Milk, oranges and cotton are fungible. Linux isn't. Unix(r) comes closer.


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Message 977457 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 22:35:26 UTC - in response to Message 977397.

... How confused do you think they'd become when they find out that there are dozens of choices.

Microsoft and Apple are probably right. Most folks just don't like having a choice.

To enjoy making a choice, you need to be educated for making the choice.

Unfortunately, most people have been educated by their schools and by advertising that there is only Microsoft. Everything else is 'unknown territory'...

Cheers,
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Message 977460 - Posted: 11 Mar 2010, 22:45:09 UTC - in response to Message 977412.

ok you slipped from OS to hardware. Microsoft advertises Microsoft not HP or dell or any other Manufacturer of Computers. The same would apply to Linux wouldnt it. With so many flavors I'd assume that Suse redhat Ubuntu Debian, Mandriva to name a few would want the majority of airtime for commercials. Commercials that will certainly cause confusion to the general population. remember most people have probably heard the word Linux but have no clue that Linux is just the Generic name for All Versions of the Linux OSes. How confused do you think they'd become when they find out that there are dozens of choices.

Microsoft and Apple are probably right. Most folks just don't like having a choice.


Someone else posted three IBM ads promoting generic linux without a flavor name. You certainly read that post.

It has been done. You know it has been done. Therefore it can be done again.

What is your real objection?
sure I watched the commercials. Perhaps you didnt notice that they were for servers. I dont recall the average person ever being in the market for business class servers. I assumed throughout this short little thread we've been discussing Linux for desktop users not servers. So whats the point here? arguing for the sake of arguing. to get the last word.
yes IBM made a commercial and it was for Linux. IBMs version for servers. this isnt a generic commercial for linux it was a specific Commercial for IBM and its servers that run Linux

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Message 977558 - Posted: 12 Mar 2010, 5:21:52 UTC - in response to Message 977460.

ok you slipped from OS to hardware. Microsoft advertises Microsoft not HP or dell or any other Manufacturer of Computers. The same would apply to Linux wouldnt it. With so many flavors I'd assume that Suse redhat Ubuntu Debian, Mandriva to name a few would want the majority of airtime for commercials. Commercials that will certainly cause confusion to the general population. remember most people have probably heard the word Linux but have no clue that Linux is just the Generic name for All Versions of the Linux OSes. How confused do you think they'd become when they find out that there are dozens of choices.

Microsoft and Apple are probably right. Most folks just don't like having a choice.


Someone else posted three IBM ads promoting generic linux without a flavor name. You certainly read that post.

It has been done. You know it has been done. Therefore it can be done again.

What is your real objection?
sure I watched the commercials. Perhaps you didnt notice that they were for servers.


Apologies. I had assumed you were aware the only difference between a server and desktop computer is the software they run.

I run one of my desktops as a server for my LAN as well as use it for everyday purposes. Anyone can do that. With linux I do it without paying hundreds more for MS server software. That is on top of having everything in all premium versions of MS's specialized packages such as Office. The only extra cost involved was a blank DVD, a quarter, after the free download. And I get all my upgrades and security patches nightly while I sleep. So there is no wait for service packs and they are free.

Whatever is said about servers being good means all other applications are as good. So any ad that sells servers can simply substitute desktop for server and be equally true.

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Message 977686 - Posted: 12 Mar 2010, 13:29:25 UTC - in response to Message 977558.

DING DING DING he just got it. Linux is software so an advertisement for server software isnt marketed towards individuals. As stated before, nice commercials but not important to the general public. As you repeated what I noted, Servers aren't desktops and server software isnt desktop software. It seems clear that the argument isnt about the software but about having the last word. I still don't see the idea of the multitude of OSes making a generic ad
I can see them advertising a website to help people choose an OS. a simple Q&A that could determine a users needs and abilities. I think that within 6 or 7 questions I could figure out if a person needs the beginners version of Linux or an advanced version
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Message 977714 - Posted: 12 Mar 2010, 15:21:02 UTC - in response to Message 977686.
Last modified: 12 Mar 2010, 15:21:41 UTC

... It seems clear that the argument isnt about the software but about having the last word. ...

I suspect so also. Is that the sign of a cantankerous old age?...


I can see them advertising a website to help people choose an OS. a simple Q&A that could determine a users needs and abilities. I think that within 6 or 7 questions I could figure out if a person needs the beginners version of Linux or an advanced version

Already done for linux. Two examples are:

What Linux distribution should you try?

Linux Distribution Chooser


Have fun!
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Message 977730 - Posted: 12 Mar 2010, 16:14:41 UTC
Last modified: 12 Mar 2010, 16:15:27 UTC

So what does the end user do when Linux screws up? Use the CLI???????

The majority of Windows users just want their systems up & running & when it crashes/bsod, they call people like me.....

Their're not intersted in learning how to get under the hood, they just want it running.....which comes to what i've previously posted regarding Linux....

Until Linux can provide the ease of installation similar to Windows AND licensed copy of a decent media player, most users will still stick to Windows & secure a living for people such as myself.

I don't or even care to spend a hell of a lot of time getting to learn/understand Linux, so as long as this problem remains, MS & Apple rules the roost.
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Message 977770 - Posted: 12 Mar 2010, 17:31:37 UTC - in response to Message 977714.

My point was that their isn't a Linux industry commercial that could lead people to these decisions. You'd have to want to be looking for linux OSes whereas if they had commericals on tv and radio they could get a whole lot more hits on their sites
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