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Horacio

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Message 1285948 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 18:39:36 UTC - in response to Message 1285931.  

At this point, I've been using Mint on my everyday machine for awhile now (and haven't returned to windows since), I do everything from run some older windows games, to 3d CAD design, to surfing the web, to administrating my command line servers, to running virtual machines, to, well everything.

I guess you dont need to use bussines apps as your main use for the hosts...
I tried, but none of the apps I use run on mono, neither on the other emulator (IIRC wime or something alike I dont remember now) as those apps rely heavily on the .Net framework... (and worst, in my country our IRA equivalent institution, gives us some apps to do our tax declarations and those apps are windows based also... and, obviously, those apps are not open source, so they cant be ported.)
So the only option for me is to install windows on VMs inside linux... But then, for what? GPUs cant be used (at least not with the free VM "players" Ive tried), so no option for win games, but also: the apps run slower on the VM, I have to handle twice the number of hosts and installations and, the worst thing, I had to pay anyway for the Win licenses...

I think that the most strong advantage of Linux is at the same time the stronger stopper in the bussines world... I as software designer Im not going to make a good app for bussines if Im not going to be able to sell it for a good price... And people that choose Linux (at least on my country bussines world) do it just because is free, so they are not willing to pay for my costly system... (not to mention how much simple and faster is to code using .NET instead of the native SDK and C++)
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Message 1286305 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 16:23:46 UTC - in response to Message 1285948.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 16:34:41 UTC

I tried, but none of the apps I use run on mono, neither on the other emulator (IIRC wime or something alike I dont remember now) as those apps rely heavily on the .Net framework... (and worst, in my country our IRA equivalent institution, gives us some apps to do our tax declarations and those apps are windows based also... and, obviously, those apps are not open source, so they cant be ported.)


I'm curious how long ago you tried this?

Wine has made great strides towards compatibility with windows apps in Linux. Yes there are a ton of programs that wont work with wine, but there are a ton that do. Wine takes some tweaking and can get to be a real pain in the arse when it comes to setting it up.

I suppose for ease of use I have to agree that if you rely on proprietary wares your best bet is stick with the Winders...
It has been said by many in the Linux community, two groups that wont be happy with linux are the bleeding edge gamer group and proprietary business software users.
Gaming, is coming a long way in Linux as more and more games new and old have native Linux ports, and the ones that don't often run very well in Wine.
Also, soon the steam service will be releasing a Linux version, which means any games in the steam library will become available on (Ubuntu based) Linux. :-)

All in good time. As I said if you rely on proprietary wares, and don't want a headache ur pretty well off where you are. But if you are a huge geek and fall in love with Linux, theres ways to "make things go".

As far as virtual machines, if you are using Win7, and your machine came with a license for it, you are allowed to remove your native install and instead use it in a virtualbox, this costs 0$. But like you said, 3D (gaming) support basically does not work in a virtuablbox, but any regular app will.
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Message 1286310 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 16:35:23 UTC

I hate to bother you while you are eating/watching the tellie/ sitting on the loo/or other activities you were previously enjoying. I'd like to come into your home unannounced and bore you to death with our version of the bible. While were at it we'll attempt to rid you of all your previous silly notions about Jesus, God, and just about every aspect of your life. Please Join our cult. We only survive by picking on the emotionally vulnerable. Are you that person? Can we rely on you to annoy your friends, relatives, coworkers, and just about every person you come in contact with?

BTW we have linux setup in our kingdom halls. We don't like being called sheeple all the time.


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Message 1286312 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 16:35:37 UTC - in response to Message 1286307.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 16:47:13 UTC

If I had my way I'd ban the use of the word Linux in Seti forums, I'm sick to death of hearing about it. If you want to use it, fine, go ahead, leave the rest of us in peace. Banging on about Linux is worse than having the JW's knock on your door.



This is the Linux thread Chris.... I'm not dropping in the Obama thread talking about Linux am I? (wait where am I...?)

=P

(Don't worry as time goes on there will be more of us Chris, we will be everywhere. Perhaps we will even start going door to door spreading the word of GNU and Stallman.)
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Message 1286314 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 16:36:31 UTC

Now Now, lets be nice. Just because you hear a knock on the door doesnt mean you have to open it.
[/quote]

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Message 1286331 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:07:28 UTC - in response to Message 1286320.  

lol


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Message 1286332 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:09:06 UTC - in response to Message 1286305.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 17:12:35 UTC

As far as virtual machines, if you are using Win7, and your machine came with a license for it, you are allowed to remove your native install and instead use it in a virtualbox, this costs 0$. But like you said, 3D (gaming) support basically does not work in a virtuablbox, but any regular app will.


And I still ask, what's the point? This seems to be the thing I can't get a straight answer on. If I already own a Windows license, and if I'm happy with using Windows, what incentive do I have to switch?

So far, arguments include: "But if you're a geek, or you like to tinker, you'll love Linux!" Ok, I am a geek, and there's plenty to tinker with in Windows. Suggesting that someone isn't a geek until they use Linux is somewhat offensive to me and my geek-cred, but that's precisely what the argument is designed to attack, isn't it?

"There's more of us out there, and we're growing. You can't stop the open source movement!" Strawman argument. I'm not trying to stop the open source movement, nor am I trying to stop anyone from using Linux. I'm just looking for a legitimate answer to my question; why should I switch if I'm perfectly happy with what I have? This is the question Linux Evangelists don't understand. Just like a JW or a born-again Christian, they think the entire world would be happier if they did as they do. Apparently, no one can be happy with Windows, nor can you be a true geek.

Or the latest offensive comment toward me specifically, "You're not open minded! You claim to be fair, but you're not! You're just a Linux hater who can't stand change, can't stand that Linux is gaining ground, so why don't you just pipe down and use Linux for a while!" Ad hominem attacks of course, view askewed to fit a perception of me that agrees with their world view of "anyone that asks questions about 'why' that we can't answer must be a dirty, rotten, Microsoft lover!"
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Message 1286349 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:29:56 UTC - in response to Message 1286332.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 17:46:40 UTC

As far as virtual machines, if you are using Win7, and your machine came with a license for it, you are allowed to remove your native install and instead use it in a virtualbox, this costs 0$. But like you said, 3D (gaming) support basically does not work in a virtuablbox, but any regular app will.


And I still ask, what's the point? This seems to be the thing I can't get a straight answer on. If I already own a Windows license, and if I'm happy with using Windows, what incentive do I have to switch?

So far, arguments include: "But if you're a geek, or you like to tinker, you'll love Linux!" Ok, I am a geek, and there's plenty to tinker with in Windows. Suggesting that someone isn't a geek until they use Linux is somewhat offensive to me and my geek-cred, but that's precisely what the argument is designed to attack, isn't it?

"There's more of us out there, and we're growing. You can't stop the open source movement!" Strawman argument. I'm not trying to stop the open source movement, nor am I trying to stop anyone from using Linux. I'm just looking for a legitimate answer to my question; why should I switch if I'm perfectly happy with what I have? This is the question Linux Evangelists don't understand. Just like a JW or a born-again Christian, they think the entire world would be happier if they did as they do. Apparently, no one can be happy with Windows, nor can you be a true geek.


The point of running windows in a virtual box, would be for someone who prefers Linux as a native OS, and may still want windows here and there. Also with a virtual box you can run multiple OS's simultaneously.

As far as being a geek and tinkering, I'd argue that Linux can do more neat tricks and do it with less processing power than windows. It's not just Linux itself, but all of the available GNU packages that make this possible. I'm sure you can do much of what I do with windows. But I highly doubt it's as seamless.
Example: I want to open a program that exists on desktop A that resides downstairs, but I'm upstairs; All i do is forward the programs window to the laptop B, and I do this from laptop B, never having to go downstairs.
so you will reply: But I can just use remote desktop. Yes you can, and so can I.
Server use and routers: I don't think you could use windows as a router firmware. You can use windows as a server, but why would I pay $$ when I have a great server OS here that doesn't waste resources with a GUI, but yet can run GUI apps to machines that have desktops.

And yes you can be a geek without Linux. Where do you think I came from? I used to use windows solely and still do geek stuff. But my ability to control every little detail of everything I setup from media servers to network storage was limited, and learning Linux/GNU became the logical next step to take my hacking to a whole new level.
(And media servers and network shares doesn't even scratch the surface: Audio zones setup in different areas of the house, media availability at every TV (Little media devices running LINUX), My podcasts download automatically I can acces them from anywhere with an internet connection (along with all of my media) I can even watch my media from my phone (yes, Andriod LINUX...), and I could go on all day about so many more tricks.)

If you are perfectly happy with what you have no one (not me anys) said you have to switch LOL. I will always suggest trying it and learning it because I feel people could see the value in it (especially the tech/hacker crowd), but I don't think I ever said you HAD to switch? Did I?

But I will gladly explain WHY I switched. And I will gladly come in here and rant and defend GNU. If you don't like it, don't read it.

I have for sure become one of those people that does and will forever stick with open source, there is a bigger value being upheld here than a mere OS. The 3d printer I will be building is OPEN SOURCE, the idea is that ALL of mankind benefits from the work put into it. This is why I do what I can to contribute as well, even if just by helping Noobs in the Ubuntu or Mint forums.


You can be happy with windows and be a true geek, I spent over a decade doing just that. (You can even continue to use windows while using/learning and taking advantage of what Open Source/GNU has to offer) I just feel that things have gotten more interesting and useful to this seasoned hacker by switching to Linux/GNU. That's my opinion. For a lot people Windows is easier. (I believe I already said whom and why earlier...)

And for some people who like to troll me (OZ)... You are so defensive (Do I cry everytime you make a comment about Windows?... Have fun with 8 btw you die-hard you)... I've never told you to switch, I've suggested trying some stuff out. If you don't want to that's great but don't come in here and cry about it being crammed down your throat, this is the Linux thread and you chose to click on it and read.
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Message 1286357 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:37:14 UTC - in response to Message 1286349.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 17:39:26 UTC

And for some people who like to troll me (OZ)... You are so defensive (Do I cry everytime you make a comment about Windows?... Have fun with 8 btw you die-hard you)... I've never told you to switch, I've suggested trying some stuff out. If you don't want to that's great but don't come in here and cry about it being crammed down your throat, this is the Linux thread and you chose to click on it and read.


Oh, someone seems to be pissy. By the way, that's not "trolling", nor was I "defensive".

But yes, you have gotten quite defensive (in other forums) where I have had fun at Linux's expense. Yes, you have been trying to sell me on Linux, you even admitted it in PM. And I find it offensive that you describe my frustration with constantly being offered a product I have stated time and time again that I have no interest in as "crying" about it. Yes, this is the Linux thread, and this thread has history, and there's a reason why it is in Politics. Because at every chance Martin gets, he's right there Evangelizing Linux to the point that he's annoyed quite a few people. Yes, I clicked on it because I like to read the overtly biased and purposefully slanted "news" Martin posts about Linux and Microsoft.

So before you keep going off on me like you have, check your own damned doorstep first. I don't believe you know me well enough to even make the accusations against me that you have made, which I find quite offensive and incredibly insulting.
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Message 1286360 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:43:27 UTC - in response to Message 1286305.  

I'm curious how long ago you tried this?

Wine has made great strides towards compatibility with windows apps in Linux. Yes there are a ton of programs that wont work with wine, but there are a ton that do. Wine takes some tweaking and can get to be a real pain in the arse when it comes to setting it up.

My last attempt with mono/wine was early this year, Ive downloaded an utility that scans the apps and tells you if there is something not supported...
And none of the bussines apps I use passed the test... (Ive tried anyway some of the more simple apps and they didnt even started, not on Mono neither in Wine)

Ive been reading and the main issue (at least with mono) is that the .Net Framework is really hughe and its not easy to supply replacement for everything there.

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Message 1286361 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:44:29 UTC

I sure hope this dosent escalate and the thread has to be locked down for a bit.
[/quote]

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Message 1286363 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:45:49 UTC

Something a bit more on topic.

ABC sends lawyers after iView freeware

T.A.
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Message 1286364 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 17:49:22 UTC

No hard feelings intended OZ, but you started it, and why, because I posted in the Linux thread about Linux?

I'm done, I've now dropped it. I've moved on. Lock the thread if you want.
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Message 1286373 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 18:07:19 UTC - in response to Message 1286307.  

If I had my way I'd ban the use of the word Linux in Seti forums, I'm sick to death of hearing about it. If you want to use it, fine, go ahead, leave the rest of us in peace. Banging on about Linux is worse than having the JW's knock on your door.



Wow, the Seti Servers are running on Windows, no wonder we have numerous outages!
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Message 1286396 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 19:00:25 UTC - in response to Message 1286357.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 19:05:50 UTC

... Yes, this is the Linux thread, and this thread has history, and there's a reason why it is in Politics. Because at every chance Martin gets, he's right there Evangelizing Linux to the point that he's annoyed quite a few people. Yes, I clicked on it because I like to read the overtly biased and purposefully slanted "news" Martin posts about Linux and Microsoft. ...

Rather a curious zombie attack from the nameless dead... So what has brought you into what must be for you such unholy alien territory?

Your "quite a few people" meaning just yourself?

Err... You not had a bad Microsoft day have you?...

There's two gems doing the rounds at the moment about the IE zero-day exploit now running on for quite a few days being actively exploited, and Sophos anti-virus identifying itself as malware in the ongoing anti-virus silliness... If you notice, I don't bother posting such daily silliness. What I do post is what is innovative and hopefully interesting and with a little context to show some contrast. You're very welcome to counter this thread with your own "Microsoft is Great" thread if you wish. Free forums and all that...


If there is what you call 'evangelism', that only comes from being reminded that I can do my daily Linux work easily and I'm able to simply get whatever job done simply. Linux is even fun!

In contrast, I also support Windows systems and they are a very different story. For one example recently, the last automatic Windows update blasted all the company laptops off the wireless network. That took an awful lot of repeated clicks to fix and brought one assistant to tears before we could convince her that it was 'normal' for Windows and not 'her fault' or something she'd done to everyone... I could go on but unfortunately, Windows support people already know the repeated stories... I wonder if that's why our critical Windows machines do not run any updates?... Unfortunately, such nursemaiding adds a lot of hassle and time needed to maintain them... In stark contrast to other systems I support.

Meanwhile, the Linux servers there just simply work, despite a continuous heavy workload and my adding yet more disks as the data grows ever greater... (The next hardware upgrades to replace them will run the latest Linux again.)

You can argue any angle you like. But simply, personally, I moved from WinXP development and support over to Linux because Linux offered freedom and better features. I'm still on Linux because I've found it to be the best there is for what I do.

So what's new?


Computers should simply work, simply, reliably, to free all users to do as the users wish... Judge for yourselves how your computer systems shape up to that.

IT is what we make it,
Martin


Special note: No ad-hominem was used in this post.
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Message 1286409 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 20:49:41 UTC

Despite the ongoing 'thermonuclear' mire of software patents and seemingly everyone suing everyone else to stifle innovation and to enrich lawyers and the legal system to everyone else's cost... And the usual ongoing stories of anti-competitive practices and other silliness...

To get back onto a positive track, at least in some parts of the IT world, IT is still positive fun:


64 Raspberry Pis + Lego = Supercomputer

Earlier this year, Raspberry Pi lured the world in with the scent of a $35, linux-powered mini-PC. Since its release, the device has been used for a number of creative purposes. But one team of engineers at the University of Southampton has decided one Raspberry Pi just isn't enough. Instead, the group gathered up a whopping 64 mini-computers and combined them to create one gigantic, super Raspberry Pi...


To take a look at what a Linux system 'looks' like, take a look at:

Top 5 Linux Distros for beginners - 2012

There are plenty of Linux Distros out there but there's only very few that is truly for beginners. So I have picked 5 distros that suit the category. You might be curious about...


Best Linux Distros

... We’ve taken the effort to categorize them and picked only those we believe to be the best ones and which will most likely be useful to you.



IT is what we make it,
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Message 1288457 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 15:42:49 UTC
Last modified: 27 Sep 2012, 15:44:44 UTC

Herewith is a brief video snippet that looks to be a rather good idea and a fun departure from your more 'usual' boring computer screen desktop. Also rather fun: The idea is being developed on a Raspberry Pi of all things! Then again, that is a good idea to ensure that the new view really flies when used on much more powerful mainstream desktop hardware!

YouTube: Qt 5 based 3D Wayland compositor demo

3D compositor written using the QtCompositor API, capable of mapping input to and compositing the rendered output from Wayland applications. With QtWayland we're no longer limited to compositing of in-process widgets as in WolfenQt

Source for the compositor: https://github.com/capisce/mazecompositor

Thanks to Jørgen for a Qt/QML based terminal emulator: https://github.com/jorgen/yat

Oh, and it runs on the Raspberry Pi as well :)



Just to decode the technogeek jargon:

We've had 'compositing' on displays for quite a while whereby you can merge/combine multiple video streams, sources, and effects, all on-the-fly to render the final image on a (2D) display that is your desktop. With that, 3D-like effects can also be synthesized to beautiful effect.

That's now all being done in 3D, and this example is showing off a 'desktop' that is actually a 3D world that you move through.

Lost? ;-)


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Message 1291629 - Posted: 5 Oct 2012, 15:24:13 UTC
Last modified: 5 Oct 2012, 15:29:52 UTC

Another fun bit :-)


The ultra-modern Linux with the SteamPunk groovy look by blackysgate.de of an old glorious past:





Good fun! Especially so for the detail for icons! :-)

And there's many other 'looks' available across a choice of desktops across a choice of Linux "distros". All too good to give away for "free"? The huge value of all that is ensuring the FREEDOM of the users.


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Message 1294367 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 18:01:12 UTC

Linux Foundation to offer signed solution for UEFI Secure Boot conundrum

Peter Bright@ArsTechnica.com wrote:
Microsoft is demanding that systems with the "Designed for Windows 8" badge include a UEFI firmware feature called "Secure Boot" that will only boot software that has been signed with a particular cryptographic certificate. Although Microsoft's stipulations require also that x86/x64 systems provide an option to disable Secure Boot, Linux users are concerned that this will make it harder for them to boot non-Microsoft operating systems.

The Linux Foundation has announced plans to provide a general purpose solution suitable for use by Linux and other non-Microsoft operating systems. The group has produced a minimal bootloader that won't boot any operating system directly. Instead, it will transfer control to any other bootloader—signed or unsigned—so that that can boot an operating system.

On the face of it, this bootloader could be used to circumvent the security of Secure Boot. The entire point of Secure Boot is that it doesn't allow unsigned (and potentially malicious) code to be run before the operating system is started. To address this, the Linux Foundation bootloader will present its own splash screen and require user input before it actually boots. In this way, it can't be silently installed and used to hand control to a rootkit without the user's knowledge.

The Linux Foundation's bootloader is not the only solution for the Secure Boot conundrum. Technically skilled users will be able to add their own trusted certificates to the computer's firmware, and some major Linux distributions including Fedora, SUSE, and Ubuntu intend to provide their own solution to the problem.

However, the Linux Foundation's work is still useful, as it provides a solution that will be suitable for minor distributions, those unable or unwilling to acquire a signature for their bootloader, and anyone developing their own boot system.
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Message 1294649 - Posted: 13 Oct 2012, 7:42:35 UTC

Linux is crap.
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