Out of the Frying Pan (Feb 17 2010)


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Technical News : Out of the Frying Pan (Feb 17 2010)

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · Next
Author Message
Profile Robert M Swift
Send message
Joined: 6 Jul 05
Posts: 4
Credit: 1,302,203
RAC: 274
Spain
Message 971612 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 11:37:25 UTC

I'd just like to say "thank you" to Matt and all at SETI, I know they are just as keen as the most rabid poster on this thread to get everything back up and running. I would hate too have to go through all the tests and checks they will to ensure that the A/C fail do not do to much damage.
So Matt and all the rest of you, THANK YOU.


____________
Bob Swift

JohnDKProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 May 00
Posts: 873
Credit: 48,311,979
RAC: 34,551
Denmark
Message 971622 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 12:23:49 UTC

However annoying it (still) is, the most annoying I think is there's no messages on the front page of what's going on.

David J. Moritz
Send message
Joined: 15 Aug 99
Posts: 21
Credit: 1,725,226
RAC: 675
United States
Message 971624 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 12:34:50 UTC

What bothers me most about the outages is that Matt and the other 3 SETI staff do not seem to understand that we contributors are spending our money (electricity, machine wear and tear, etc.) to support SETI even if we do not donate cash. Keeping contributors informed is a must for any non-profit. I have been running SETI for a long time, and the stability of the crunching has deteriorated since BONIC was utilized. The recent outages are the latest in a string of problems and issues that have never been properly resolved. I understand the "lack of funds", but SETI management needs to address the problems because the science is loosing out to infastructure and "slap a patch on it" system management/maintenance. Perhaps it would be best to stop processing data and really fix the problems! As an engineering manager who has had to deal with this type of IT instability, shuting SETI down and fixing the problem may be the only way to resolve these continuing problems.
____________
David Moritz

Profile tullioProject donor
Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 3814
Credit: 393,242
RAC: 238
Italy
Message 971638 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 13:38:07 UTC

I am running SETI and 4 other projects on a small cache (0.25 days). When a WU is finished it is uploaded and I get a new one. If one of the projects has a blackout, the other four are running. In the worst case I have 2 projects running and three idling, so the 2 cores of my Opteron 1210 running Linux are always busy 24/7.AQUA@home alone grabs both cores since it is multithreading but it switches every hour, like all others, since they made it checkpointing according to our requests.
Tullio
____________

OzzFan
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 02
Posts: 13657
Credit: 31,487,610
RAC: 12,018
United States
Message 971639 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 13:44:35 UTC - in response to Message 971624.
Last modified: 19 Feb 2010, 13:47:53 UTC

What bothers me most about the outages is that Matt and the other 3 SETI staff do not seem to understand that we contributors are spending our money (electricity, machine wear and tear, etc.) to support SETI even if we do not donate cash. Keeping contributors informed is a must for any non-profit. I have been running SETI for a long time, and the stability of the crunching has deteriorated since BONIC was utilized. The recent outages are the latest in a string of problems and issues that have never been properly resolved. I understand the "lack of funds", but SETI management needs to address the problems because the science is loosing out to infastructure and "slap a patch on it" system management/maintenance. Perhaps it would be best to stop processing data and really fix the problems! As an engineering manager who has had to deal with this type of IT instability, shuting SETI down and fixing the problem may be the only way to resolve these continuing problems.


How can you say that they don't understand that their contributors spend money on electricity? They know they are harnessing a waste product from their users.

Taking that one step further, the waste in electricity would be minimal if people only donated the actual waste, and didn't "create" waste by buying extra computers/parts just to run SETI. Anything above and beyond what you'd normally have in your system for doing your daily tasks is more than they asked for, so any waste when there's downtime is really on the user, not on the Project Admins.

In addition to that, the project has stated numerous times that there will moments of trouble or no work, and if you do not wish to "waste" your electric bill, to donate your spare CPU cycles to a back-up project. If you choose not to do this, the "wasted" electric bill can only be faulted on the user.

With only 4 part-time people in the lab, would you rather they keep posting information to us, or would you rather they just fix the issue while we see the end result? We all know there's a problem due to the flurry of complaints on the subject. I'd rather see them focus on the problem and not on spending precious time updating us.
____________

Profile darkangelx
Send message
Joined: 15 Oct 03
Posts: 25
Credit: 437,437
RAC: 12
United States
Message 971640 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 13:44:50 UTC

Patience Daniel- san. Posts crying for an update make me laugh. When its up, it will be up. Do like I did and pick another project to volunteer for or donate a buck or 2 to try to help out( did both mind). Posting your opinion about what they should or shouldnt do to inform you is silly.

Enhance your calm John Spartan.
____________

Plantery Society Member

David J. Moritz
Send message
Joined: 15 Aug 99
Posts: 21
Credit: 1,725,226
RAC: 675
United States
Message 971647 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 14:17:52 UTC - in response to Message 971639.

It is obvious that Matt could spend ten minute break a day to keep the contributors up to date. Both my posts took well under 10 minutes to submit. Keeping the contributors informed does not slow down the process of "fixing" the problems SETI is encountering. As I said, shut it down and fix it. Tell the contributors that the system will be down and get on with it. Give the contributors an update (5 mins?) daily as to the best guess when the system will be up. This does not keep the staff from fixing the system.

____________
David Moritz

OzzFan
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 02
Posts: 13657
Credit: 31,487,610
RAC: 12,018
United States
Message 971649 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 14:24:02 UTC - in response to Message 971647.

I find it hard to argue with a request for more information. I'm a big fan of communication, something that most companies fall apart on internally.

However, I still stand by my statements, that I'd rather they work on the issue to get it fixed than to post here to update us. We see the results either way.
____________

Profile Adrian Luca
Send message
Joined: 17 Apr 06
Posts: 1
Credit: 303,075
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 971652 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 14:34:11 UTC - in response to Message 971647.

Patience. You must learn patience.
____________

Profile perryjay
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Aug 02
Posts: 3377
Credit: 16,209,426
RAC: 7,278
United States
Message 971654 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 14:53:54 UTC

Hmmm, let's see, an update? Well, for the last two hours they were chasing cat-5 from router A to switch B then for the next two they checked the connections on all the servers, then they sat down and scratched their a... uhh heads and started all over again.

Come on guys, even with the little home set up I have I know how much little stuff has to be done to keep it going. These guys put in more hours than anyone should have to and do a fantastic job with what they've got. Give them a break and let them get this thing fixed! That is if it's even something with their equipment and not out beyond their control on the web somewhere.
____________


PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC

David J. Moritz
Send message
Joined: 15 Aug 99
Posts: 21
Credit: 1,725,226
RAC: 675
United States
Message 971655 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 14:55:29 UTC - in response to Message 971652.

I have been more than patient, as this is my 7th post since 1999! How long do the contributors need to wait for SETI management (not Matt) to fix the issues?
A lot of money has been spent to develop recievers based upon Allen's money. Could it be that processing data has taken a back seat to new antenna and reciever funding by a single contributor? Where is SETI headed? I believe that a "systems" approach is needed blending current data crunching with advances in reciever capability. If there is no way to analyze the data collected, should we spend money to collect more? Matt and staff should be applauded. They have done a great job, with limited funds and with out proper management direction or oversite. Fix the management and SETI will do beter science!
____________
David Moritz

√úberNerdNation
Send message
Joined: 13 Aug 00
Posts: 1
Credit: 475,093
RAC: 9
United States
Message 971658 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 15:02:55 UTC

First I want to say...SETI is awesome. I went down Puerto Rico 2 years ago, and after doing the obligatory "let's lie on the beach and take in the culture" for my wife, I convinced her to go to Arecibo to see the radio telescope. It was incredible and an inspiration. A giant satellite dish in a mountain.

Secondly, to the users that are complaining, SETI has had outages multiple times in the past. "All this has happened before and it will happen again." If you really feel upset by it, let it inspire you to donate cash as well as time to them. Trust me, they can use it. They have a small staff and PCs that are aging. They do the best they can, and many of the staff are volunteers. If you truly believe in this project, understand it is not about stats, but about hope.

Finally, to SETI, I know you must be working hard, especially with such a small staff that can't give round the clock support. I want to thank you for your effort. I think everyone is here just looking for the same thing. A simple note on the site that says - "The site is down due to server issues, we will post a new message on this page once the servers are fully functional. Please remember this is primarily a volunteer project. Any donations to help replace damaged servers, cooling units, and upgrade technology would be appreciated." The only message on the site that I could find said the site would be back up Thursday morning. I think this is the problem, I learned from my own IT experience, never promise. Just say you are doing your best to get it up as soon as possible. If the team could find 5 mins to post something like this, I think people would relax. I think we all know how hard it is to find that time during a crisis. Good Luck!
____________

Profile Bill Walker
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3435
Credit: 2,195,714
RAC: 1,256
Canada
Message 971660 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 15:13:11 UTC - in response to Message 971655.

A lot of money has been spent to develop recievers based upon Allen's money.


My understanding is that Allen's money goes to another project, and that project does not provide any support or data to this one. SETI funding has been discussed at length on the number crunching forum, it comes mostly from UC Berkely and volunteer donations.

If you want to see what a difference money makes, try using World Community Grid for a bit. Mega bucks from IBM keeps things up and running. That's fine, if you don't mind Big Corporations deciding what is worth crunching and what isn't. For me, I will continue to run a mix: taking advantage of IBM's big bucks and the SETI staff's hard work and dedication.
____________

Profile hiamps
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 May 99
Posts: 4292
Credit: 72,971,319
RAC: 0
United States
Message 971667 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 15:30:17 UTC

So still no conformation that anyone at seti even knows there is a problem....Bummer.
____________
Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

David J. Moritz
Send message
Joined: 15 Aug 99
Posts: 21
Credit: 1,725,226
RAC: 675
United States
Message 971669 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 15:39:11 UTC - in response to Message 971667.

It is 7:34 Am in Berkley, No response is what is expected. Give Matt the benefit of coming to work at a normal hourt.
Should we expect continous updates? No! let Matt and the staff work. Complain about Matt's management their bad management oversite that drives Matt's response. Can we identify a forum that Matt's boses will respond to?
____________
David Moritz

PhonAcq
Send message
Joined: 14 Apr 01
Posts: 1624
Credit: 22,511,326
RAC: 5,124
United States
Message 971671 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 15:43:33 UTC - in response to Message 971451.

Looks like the problem is solved for now for most people. Has there been a post-mortem and if so what was the result?


Obviously I was wrong. My results are being uploaded after a struggle with back-offs but the reporting step is just rejected each time. So the ready-to-report count just keeps growing. If this is true for everyone, then seti should expect a huge, johnny-on-the-spot flush when they fix their problem. I bet we will experience the ripple for days.

Profile [seti.international] Dirk Sadowski
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 07
Posts: 7115
Credit: 61,255,196
RAC: 7,405
Germany
Message 971672 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 15:43:45 UTC
Last modified: 19 Feb 2010, 15:50:00 UTC


Maybe it's time for the right sign for the SETI@home crew? ;-)





Something is wrong!

No UL and no scheduler contact possible.

At least not from Europe/Germany (or my home.. ;-).


The current Cricket Graph of the last router between SETI@home and us show:
DL: 25.80 Mbits/sec
UL: 8.67 Mbits/sec
..and nothing go through.

Maybe not 'only' an UPS (and maybe PSU), maybe also a router/switch is broken/burned? Maybe only a fuse in a power connection is broken?


____________
[Optimized project applications, for to increase your PC performance (double RAC)!][Overview of abbreviations, which are used often in forum and their meaning.]
____________
BR

SETI@home Needs your Help ... $10 & U get a Star!

Team seti.international

Das Deutsche Cafe. The German Cafe.

Profile Link
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 03
Posts: 836
Credit: 1,577,279
RAC: 182
Germany
Message 971684 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 16:16:01 UTC - in response to Message 971672.

At least not from Europe/Germany (or my home.. ;-).

It' your home... and everything else except for my laptop, which finally uploaded enough results to request new work units. Download seems to be no problem. My other two machines couldn't upload anything since don't know when.
____________
.

Profile Ageless
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Jun 99
Posts: 12392
Credit: 2,665,317
RAC: 984
Netherlands
Message 971687 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 16:25:35 UTC - in response to Message 971669.

Give Matt the benefit of coming to work at a normal hour

AFAIK Matt is always free on Fridays. He works Sunday - Thursday for Seti, if that's still valid.
____________
Jord

Fighting for the correct use of the apostrophe, together with Weird Al Yankovic

Profile RottenMutt
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 15 Mar 01
Posts: 995
Credit: 208,402,393
RAC: 36,005
United States
Message 971689 - Posted: 19 Feb 2010, 16:29:37 UTC - in response to Message 971658.

... SETI has had outages multiple times in the past. "All this has happened before and it will happen again." If you really feel upset by it, let it inspire you to donate cash as well as time to them.


no thank you, i would be upset if seti went away, but i would get over it. Most of the people that post in the forums are addicted; science, competition, or just seeing what that new rig will do. It would free up my time.
I guit last summer, and will quit this summer, perhaps seti will still be here next fall.
i just ask people don't do climate perdiction... climate change...!!!
____________

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · Next

Message boards : Technical News : Out of the Frying Pan (Feb 17 2010)

Copyright © 2014 University of California