Obama apparently plans to kill the Ares rocket program, the replacement for the Space Shuttle, as part of an attempt to fix the budget.

When the White House releases its budget proposal Monday, there will be no money for the Constellation program that was to return humans to the moon by 2020. The Ares I rocket that was to replace the space shuttle to ferry humans to space will be gone, along with money for the Ares V cargo rocket that was to launch the fuel and supplies needed to return to the moon. There will be no lunar landers, no moon bases.

"We certainly don't need to go back to the moon," one administration official said.

Bend over, here comes the change...

Why is it that it never seems to matter whether we have the money when war funding is the question -- just tack it on to the deficit, what the hell -- but when we need to balance the budget space programs are the first to go?

Until now I was on the fence, but this puts me squarely in the don't-like-Obama camp.

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Obama apparently plans to kill the Ares rocket program, the replacement for the Space Shuttle, as part of an attempt to fix the budget.
[i]

Until now I was on the fence, but this puts me squarely in the don't-like-Obama camp.

No prouder a moment for our socialist president than to force America to hitch-hike rides on Russian and likely in future, Chinese spacecraft. No offense pointed towards either, since both have sustainable, & working human delivery vehicles. Russia continued to invest and improve Soyuz all these years as an efficient delivery system.

Wish we had done same w/ Saturn V........

Seems as though we are slowly becoming a second rate country and the sheeple don't see it or don't care...

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Obama apparently plans to kill the Ares rocket program, the replacement for the Space Shuttle, as part of an attempt to fix the budget.

That's a nice jobs program.

How's that CHANGE working out for you?

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I gave up on him when it became clear to me that there was no way universal single payer health care was going to be brought to the citizens of the US.

Obama is not a socialist, nor is he even a left leaning politician.
He's just another corporatist that came to power with the promise of change.

Personally, my choice for president was Nader but I'm not an American voter.

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Obama apparently plans to kill the Ares rocket program, the replacement for the Space Shuttle, as part of an attempt to fix the budget.

When the White House releases its budget proposal Monday, there will be no money for the Constellation program that was to return humans to the moon by 2020. ...
"We certainly don't need to go back to the moon," one administration official said.

[...]

Until now I was on the fence, but this puts me squarely in the don't-like-Obama camp.

If you read the rest of the article, it looks to be a very sensible move.

Various groups have been cautioning for a long time that the moon is of no advantage for getting to Mars or elsewhere in the solar system, and could actually prove to be more of an expensive technological quagmire rather than a help.


After a decade of procrastinations and holidaying on the ranch of the Bush years, it looks like Obama is the straight leadership needed to get America moving oncemore.

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

why are we blaming this president for decades of waste and mismanagement from congress? this is a symptom of a larger problem. Have you rode on an interstate lately. Seems we can build new highways but cant afford the uptake.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Why have people fallen out with manned space travel?
Do you American's no longer have any pride in having the ability to land on the moon, and potentially Mars?
I find it very sad that Constellation is most likely being cancelled. I don't like the idea of hitching a ride on a Russian Soyuz spacecraft (both questionable safety records and it is the Russians we're talking about) and commercial space travel just looks sad... a government cannot get man into space but a small start-up company can?! Pathetic.

I'd say continue onwards with the Constellation program - $6 billion and 7 years has already been spent on it! Give NASA a much needed boost in funding, ergo speed up the progress of construction. Keep the ISS running until 2020, then service the Hubble Space Telescope one final time in the late 2010's. Off to the moon by 2020, and off to Mars in 2025-30.
After servicing the Hubble get on the construction of the 16m Advanced Technology Large Aperture Space Telescope (AT-LAST), which depends and is designed around the possibility of using the Ares V for launch, then we have a true successor to Hubble.
Landing in Apophis in 2029 would be pretty cool as well.

I'm 34 now. I do hope I will see a manned Mars mission in my lifetime. Not a chance if Constellation is canceled though...

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- Luke.

I'm 34 now. I do hope I will see a manned Mars mission in my lifetime. Not a chance if Constellation is canceled though...

That's exactly it. I'm 30 so not far behind. Constellation is my generation's Apollo, and Mars my generation's Moon. Obama has just killed one of my dreams.

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... Constellation is my generation's Apollo, and Mars my generation's Moon. Obama has just killed one of my dreams.

From that article:

Instead, according to White House insiders, agency officials, industry executives and congressional sources familiar with Obama's plans, NASA will look at developing a "heavy-lift" rocket that one day will take humans and robots to explore beyond low-Earth orbit. That day will be years away.

The White House will direct NASA to concentrate on Earth-science projects -- principally, researching and monitoring climate change -- and on a new technology research and development program designed to someday enable human exploration of asteroids and the inner solar system.

Looks like Obama is looking beyond the moon.

We've been there, done it. The moon is an old goal. Why repeat it? Especially, why repeat past glory when there is far greater interest beyond?

Note that the moon is a gravitational hole that is in the wrong place to go further. A much much better "staging post" is to go to the Lagrange point beyond the moon. From there you can 'cheaply' manoeuvre to anywhere else in the solar system. A bit like a 'star gate'.

Much more 'interesting' is to develop and learn from the ISS and thence onto other parts of the solar system.

At least Obama is MAINTAINING THE FUNDING for NASA. He's not redirecting NASA for the sake of any spending cuts for that case... I think he's taken some good advice for the sake of much faster and more worthwhile progress.

(I wonder if Bush was dreaming of "Space Cowboys" when he misdirected various of NASA's efforts...)

The Earth sciences and climate change stuff is also very important. There's a lot of ground to catch up on from the Bush blinkeredness.

Keep searchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

From that article:

Instead, according to White House insiders, agency officials, industry executives and congressional sources familiar with Obama's plans, NASA will look at developing a "heavy-lift" rocket that one day will take humans and robots to explore beyond low-Earth orbit. That day will be years away.

The White House will direct NASA to concentrate on Earth-science projects -- principally, researching and monitoring climate change -- and on a new technology research and development program designed to someday enable human exploration of asteroids and the inner solar system.

Looks like Obama is looking beyond the moon.

We've been there, done it. The moon is an old goal. Why repeat it? Especially, why repeat past glory when there is far greater interest beyond?

Let's look closer. If Kennedy had laid out the same deliverables as this, the moon NEVER would have happened in 69'. There's no substance to these words, and NASA will find there to be NO FUNDING from Washington to support this directive. He's pushing off details and funding to future administrations that will be LONG after his.

This isn't an inspiring Vision, just empty words from a President that doesn't have any plan and is too narcissistic to admit it.

And above is merely my opinion. Don't let me dissuade anyone from theirs. :>)

If we had but a fraction of the moneys that have bean spent on destroying this world an our fellow mankind in the last century or so........

We could have funded and completed most of the initiatives that our kind and loving master has promised us and shall never fulfill.

What could we do with he funds we are now spending in Afghanistan?

Billions of dollars spent to kill others instead of saving our own or shoring up our planet's ecosystem.

Because of what??

They threaten us unless we leave them alone.

Read that again........they threaten us unless we leave them alone.

Y'all know what it's about.........the powers that be......

1. Really think that they know what they are doing.........NOT

so onto number 2.

2. They really are a threat............

NOT.....unless we provoke them, which we continually do.

3. They are protecting our sources of energy (oil)....fk that.......do you think the producers would have the life they live if they didn't have a place to send it????? Why do you think OPEC exists???? They live in fear that if we do not continue to buy their source of energy at the prices they extract from us, they shall cease to exist. It is their source of power.........do away with our dependence, and we shall own them all!!!!!

4. We can spend billions killing other peoples and other cultures, but seem to find a problem with exploring the outer limits of space. For what end? To find more peoples and cultures which we can attack.........see the military complex discussions elsewhere.

It's about money and where it is channeled.......nothing more.
I stand by my JFK theories......he was gonna try to reign this thing in........and that's why he was killed.



This is a sad thing, my Seti friends.....a sad thing.

The only moon that Obama is looking beyond is his own.

The one behind his ass. Not ours.

And you wanna talk global warming???????
Take all the combustables consumed by every war in the last 100 years......
They could have probably supplied the energy need of the whole nation every day since we began.
Talk about a place to start.

We could have done this years ago, and long ago ruled our world. With no dependence on others to serve our world.

Except for that 'military industrial complex' thingy that keeps poking it's prod into our butt.

I know there were wars worth fighting, and I respect those that did on our behalf.......and I will never diss the men who died fighting them.

But that time has long gone........there were not WMD's in Irag. And I doubt Iran has them yet....
And would not produce them if we did not give them reason to.......this is the cold war starting alllllllll over again.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

This was a problem back in MY time........

You young pups have no idea......and many others here are older and have seen much more than I.....saying that your daddy did won't cut it.....

Mine did not, and I acknowledge that. There were sacrifices made for which I did not pay for. But my grandparents did.

Get the government back in order, or they shall order you.

Have you never heard Dylan's 'Masters of War'?......no, it was not a Black Sabbath tune.........written by him back in '63......before many of you were borne into this world.....so you should pay attention to your elders.....

Listen now....
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

Yeah......'63....

Masters.....NOT...

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I've had those lyrics tacked up on my locker door at work for two years.
Just under the Three Stooges picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd3YIwxk--0

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

I've had those lyrics tacked up on my locker door at work for two years.
Just under the Three Stooges picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd3YIwxk--0

Most excellent.....thank you very much.

I have a copy of 'Freewheelin' that I bought shortly after it's release.
A fine Dylan album. One of my favorites.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Why have people fallen out with manned space travel?
Do you American's no longer have any pride in having the ability to land on the moon, and potentially Mars?

#1. Building boost vehicles costs too much.

#2. Building boost vehicles costs too much.

#3. Building boost vehicles costs too much.

At some point it becomes logical to allow others to do the "heavy lifting" and simply pay for a ride. There are many other areas of scientific research that the money needed to develop a new orbital boost vehicle can be used. As far as science goes, we have learned much more from the unmanned exploration than can be learned from a manned mission. as far as the Moon goes, the only thing it really offers is the visual clarity of an observation platform without an atmosphere.

As to the Space Station, it needs to continue and clearly President Obama has made a commitment to continue funding that so it will be viable until 2020.

Frankly, I expect that there will be an increase in the number of private companies entering into the business of operating orbital and sub-orbital vehicles. Why not FedEx or the like? They would have some ability to garner an ROI on their investments. Yes, it sounds crazy but then that's what everybody said about FedEx when they started business, i.e., "Who needs a package on the other coast over night?"

I would also expect that you will see some interest in a private corporation taking over operation of the Space Station before it is slated for retirement. The only question there will be if it is realistic to try to refurbish the existing platform or simply use it as a place to house the people that will be needed to build a new space station. Maybe one underwritten by "Best Western"?

What we saw in 2001 might have been prescient except for the fact that PanAm (PAA) has gone out of business (FedEx didn't exist) and Hilton is no longer the largest hotel chain.

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