JAIL life (Japanese whalers SLICE Sea Shepherd boat IN TWO!)

Message boards : Politics : JAIL life (Japanese whalers SLICE Sea Shepherd boat IN TWO!)

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Author	Message
ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7137 Credit: 3,685,034 RAC: 962	Message 961189 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 13:13:15 UTC
	I think the Japanese have gone far too far with this one! Sea Shepherd’s high-tech speedboat heavily damaged after collision with Japanese whaling ship The two videos shown there are rather revealing. Just look at the way the Japanese ship rolls hard over to very quickly turn very hard into the Sea Shepherd boat. Meanwhile, the Sea Shepherd boat has no time to do anything. From what those two videos show, the Japanese ship rapidly changes direction to very deliberately slam into the very much smaller boat. Note also that the smaller boat needs forward prop wash to be able to turn using it's rear located rudders. From a dead stop, the Ady Gil had no chance from such malevolence from the Japanese helm. That was criminally dangerous. I hope the Japanese have blown themselves out of the water politically and morally and for world opinion with that crass bullying brazenness. Or is that also a part of their criminal sham of what they call “research”? Disgusted! Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 961189 ·

ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7137 Credit: 3,685,034 RAC: 962	Message 961191 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 13:17:03 UTC Last modified: 6 Jan 2010, 13:19:09 UTC
	Curiously, the Sea Shepherd website appears to be suffering a DDoS... Totally Disgusted with the Japanese and their whaling thugs! Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 961191 ·

skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 8943 Credit: 36,664,457 RAC: 60,367	Message 961192 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 13:43:47 UTC - in response to Message 961191.
	I don't know if you watched any of the "Whale wars", but the Sea shepherd folks are ran by an idiot that volunteers inept and unqualified people for dangerous work. The laborers on board have know idea how nutty and illequipped their leaders are. Heck they can't even launch a boat correctly. You'd think they'd practice something on their weeks long journey to Antarctic waters. It appears they only practice eating lentils. The fact that the boat was rammed by a much larger vessel only leads me to believe that they got in the way. Heck of all the shows I've watched it appears they've wasted more tons of fuel polluting the atmosphere than an 1 whale they could possibly save ____________ Proud member of TSWB. End terrorism by building a school
	ID: 961192 ·

Q Send message Joined: 15 Jun 04 Posts: 216 Credit: 329,924 RAC: 0	Message 961194 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 13:46:22 UTC Last modified: 6 Jan 2010, 14:22:45 UTC
	Ahoy, shipmates! Ref. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8442808.stm: ”The Sea Shepherd group sends boats to Antarctic waters each year to try to stop the Japanese whaling fleet hunting whales under the auspices of a scientific research programme.” Any competent biologist around here in Cafe SETI willing to give an educated opinion? I’d like to hear, what is this ”scientific research programme” alleged by the Japanese? Results, publications? Results such that killing whales necessary? In this same context, have you seen this: ”NZ, Australia research whales to challenge Japan” http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8440625.stm ”The scientists hope their research will help to disprove Japan’s claims that whales have to be killed if they are to be properly studied.” Regards PK
	ID: 961194 ·

ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7137 Credit: 3,685,034 RAC: 962	Message 961198 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 14:08:30 UTC - in response to Message 961192. Last modified: 6 Jan 2010, 14:10:32 UTC
	I don't know if you watched any of the "Whale wars", but the Sea shepherd folks are ran by an idiot that volunteers inept and unqualified people for dangerous work. The Ady Gil skipper is very experienced and competent and was the one who built the boat. He broke the round-the-world record by two weeks. The laborers on board have know idea how nutty and illequipped their leaders are. Heck they can't even launch a boat correctly. You'd think they'd practice something on their weeks long journey to Antarctic waters. It appears they only practice eating lentils. That sounds like the first 'Whale Wars' series. Note how for that incident, noone was hurt and no damage was done other than for the weak link on the crane arm to break. Note that weak links are meant to break for those circumstances. So... A few greenhorns got wet for the sake of some fun 'reality' TV. All part of the show and nicely orchestrated for the cameras. Great shame that some of the viewing public are so shallow. I guess they have no idea why whales are important either. The fact that the boat was rammed by a much larger vessel only leads me to believe that they got in the way. Heck of all the shows I've watched it appears they've wasted more tons of fuel polluting the atmosphere than an 1 whale they could possibly save Look closely at the vids on that link. The Ady Gil was at idle, motionless well off to one side of the Japanese whaler. The whaler heaved hard over in a full throttle turn into the near stationary Ady Gil. Looks like the Ady Gil tried a forward turn away but its engines picked up far too late to do anything. The Japanese whaler then smashes them apart very hard. Disgusted! Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 961198 ·

hiamps Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 4292 Credit: 72,616,284 RAC: 32,306	Message 961227 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 16:46:01 UTC
	Seems like another classic example of why the United Nations is really a Joke. Countries go and sign agreements and then do as they wish and none of the other Countries say or do anything....All lip service. ____________ Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons... And no good credit hound!
	ID: 961227 ·

VBobier Send message Joined: 30 Nov 03 Posts: 40817 Credit: 32,110,364 RAC: 19,021	Message 961229 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 16:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 961227.
	Seems like another classic example of why the United Nations is really a Joke. Countries go and sign agreements and then do as they wish and none of the other Countries say or do anything....All lip service. Japan did this when They signed on to the Geneva Convention on captured troops during WWII, Some times I don't think they get It, Japan does whaling for food and doesn't think their hurting a thing by doing It, That their exterminating a whole species with their research which ends up in the markets and on Japanese tables. Tradition is what We, the Whales and the Japanese are up against, They could eat good Meat from overseas(turkey, beef, etc), But It's the farmers who want to protect the high prices they get, So whaling continues under the phony guise of research. :( So diplomacy will continue I'd hope. ____________ BSG Anthem My Facebook page
	ID: 961229 ·

Luke Volunteer developer Send message Joined: 31 Dec 06 Posts: 2546 Credit: 816,193 RAC: 17	Message 961281 - Posted: 6 Jan 2010, 20:11:46 UTC Last modified: 6 Jan 2010, 20:12:12 UTC
	You can imagine the national news here in New Zealand, since they are based in New Zealand and the surrounding area. You may not of heard of it, but Google "Rainbow Warrior Bombing" and you'll see what the French did to our ship when they were blowing up islands in the pacific... ____________ - Luke.
	ID: 961281 ·

ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7137 Credit: 3,685,034 RAC: 962	Message 961535 - Posted: 7 Jan 2010, 14:32:02 UTC Last modified: 7 Jan 2010, 14:33:58 UTC
	Well, I think this image sums up from which side the aggression came from for the collision. I guess the helm for the Ady Gil was too slow or too disbelieving or the engines to slow to respond to get out of the way. Note also that the helm for the Japanese ship turned very hard to starboard to turn into the Ady Gil at the very last moment... See: Japanese Whalers Ram Sea Shepherd Ship Ady Gil (Looks like the Sea Shepherd site is slowly recovering from an onslaught. Their site slowly loads now for me in the UK.) The final blasting of the stricken crew with water cannon was rather a nasty final blast... I think the Japanese have gone way way OTT with that one, regardless of any claimed provocation. Utterly disgusted! Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 961535 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10324 Credit: 5,092,129 RAC: 6,429	Message 961605 - Posted: 7 Jan 2010, 19:04:12 UTC
	http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-whale-boat7-2010jan07,0,4710554.story?track=rss Call me a cynic, but you get Hollywood money involved, a film crew, a production company and ... Bet you anything there is a production insurance policy in place to cover the boat and the entire thing was staged for the camera. Wonder how big the ratings will be whey they air the episode. Balloon boy does whales! ____________
	ID: 961605 ·

rebest Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Apr 00 Posts: 1291 Credit: 25,381,192 RAC: 28,176	Message 961678 - Posted: 7 Jan 2010, 22:15:21 UTC
	I just love how the Japanese continue to justify whaling under the guise of "research". Uh, yeah. Wink, wink. If their actions weren't criminal, these lame excuses would be comical. I'm not at all surprised that the whaler rammed the Ady Gil. It was probably trying to disable the ship by fouling the propellers. Last year, all the Sea Shepherd had was a rubber speed boat that didn't fare very well against the Japanese's water cannon. ____________ Join the PACK!
	ID: 961678 ·

John McLeod VII Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Jul 99 Posts: 22343 Credit: 439,209 RAC: 396	Message 961727 - Posted: 8 Jan 2010, 0:47:36 UTC
	If you are approaching a boat, and that boat is to your starboard, you must give way. Clearly the Japanese ship was approaching the Sea Shepard with the Sea Shepard to the starboard of the Japanese ship. The Japanese ship steered toward the Sea Shepard instead of away. The Japanese ship's captain should lose his captains license. ____________ BOINC WIKI
	ID: 961727 ·

skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 8943 Credit: 36,664,457 RAC: 60,367	Message 961794 - Posted: 8 Jan 2010, 4:47:49 UTC - in response to Message 961727.
	supposedly they had been attempting to foul the Japanese ships prop. This still doesnt justify ramming a sitting ship ____________ Proud member of TSWB. End terrorism by building a school
	ID: 961794 ·

ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7137 Credit: 3,685,034 RAC: 962	Message 962300 - Posted: 9 Jan 2010, 18:26:06 UTC - in response to Message 961189.
	I think the Japanese have gone far too far with this one! Sea Shepherd’s high-tech speedboat heavily damaged after collision with Japanese whaling ship The two videos shown there are rather revealing. Just look at the way the Japanese ship rolls hard over to very quickly turn very hard into the Sea Shepherd boat. Meanwhile, the Sea Shepherd boat has no time to do anything. From what those two videos show, the Japanese ship rapidly changes direction to very deliberately slam into the very much smaller boat. Note also that the smaller boat needs forward prop wash to be able to turn using it's rear located rudders. From a dead stop, the Ady Gil had no chance from such malevolence from the Japanese helm. That was criminally dangerous. I hope the Japanese have blown themselves out of the water politically and morally and for world opinion with that crass bullying brazenness. Or is that also a part of their criminal sham of what they call “research”? Disgusted! Martin Seeing more of the various angles from the various YouTube videos posted show the Captain and Helm of the Japanese whaler in an even worse light for what looks like their very deliberate ramming of the Ady Gil. The people on the Ady Gil had stopped their interference for the day and were caught completely disbelieving that they would be run down to be sunk. Some of the various views on YouTube: Footage from the Ady Gil Video released by the Japanese Whalers Interview with Paul Watson, Sea Shepherd Interview with Glen Innwood, spokesperson for the Japanese Whalers Interview with Pete Bethune, Ady Gil captain Hopefully, the Japanese Whalers will have been seen to have gone far too far this time. Utterly disgusted still! Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 962300 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10324 Credit: 5,092,129 RAC: 6,429	Message 962385 - Posted: 10 Jan 2010, 0:46:17 UTC
	http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100109/ap_on_re_as/as_antarctica_whaling Interesting. I'd think if the Sea Shepherd people were (had been earlier) trying to foul the propellers and/or steering gear of the Japanese ship, its captain would be correct to consider himself under attack by pirates who are attempting to disable his vessel prior to boarding. I believe in such a case he is allowed to defend himself. Perhaps he did. The Sea Shepherd people said they were done for the day. Did they tell the Japanese skipper via radio? It might have helped the Sea Shepherd people if their captain hadn't gunned his engines and hazarded his vessel by putting it in directly in front of the Japanese ship. I suspect he wanted reverse but goofed and now there is too much at stake to fess up, unless it was an intentional act. After all didn't they say their ship wasn't moving. If that is true, if he hadn't gunned his engines and hazarded his vessel would the Japanese ship not struck him? Does the Japanese Captain have to wait forever for a boat that isn't moving to cross his path? As to the path of the Japanese ship, is a zig-zag path the correct one when someone is trying to foul the propellers and/or steering gear prior to boarding your vessel? This little fender bender is going to be interesting as it works its way through the legal system. When you set out to play with fire, you may get burned. ____________
	ID: 962385 ·

ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7137 Credit: 3,685,034 RAC: 962	Message 962506 - Posted: 10 Jan 2010, 16:38:55 UTC - in response to Message 962385. Last modified: 10 Jan 2010, 16:41:08 UTC
	http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100109/ap_on_re_as/as_antarctica_whaling Interesting. I'd think if the Sea Shepherd people were (had been earlier) trying to foul the propellers and/or steering gear of the Japanese ship, its captain would be correct to consider himself under attack by pirates who are attempting to disable his vessel prior to boarding. I believe in such a case he is allowed to defend himself. Perhaps he did. The Sea Shepherd people said they were done for the day. Did they tell the Japanese skipper via radio? ... As to the path of the Japanese ship, is a zig-zag path the correct one when someone is trying to foul the propellers and/or steering gear prior to boarding your vessel? This little fender bender is going to be interesting as it works its way through the legal system. ... Well, looks like you're being very charitably naive towards the Japanese whalers manoeuvres... To approach at full throttle for over a minute and to then very sharply turn at the very last moment looks to me like very deliberate pre-meditated violence/vengeange on the part of the Captain and helm of the Japanese whaler. Even after the Ady Gil was smashed in two and its crew scattered across the cockpit, another crew member of the Japanese whaler then further blasted them with a high pressure water cannon. Note that the Japanese whaler is a mere few hundred tons that can race at well over 20 knots and is designed to be as agile as the whales it hunts. From idle and from so very last moment, the Ady Gil had no chance. The Ady Gil crew were badly mistaken in having dropped their guard and in not imagining the Japanese crew could be so murderously malevolent. The story is still rattling around in the news: Film backs Ady Gil claims Paul Watson: Sea Shepherd's stern 'warrior' defies Japanese whalers Very nasty stuff from the Japanese whalers. Utterly disgusted, Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 962506 ·

rebest Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Apr 00 Posts: 1291 Credit: 25,381,192 RAC: 28,176	Message 962513 - Posted: 10 Jan 2010, 17:16:42 UTC - in response to Message 962506.
	Martin, Let's not forget that the stated mission of Sea Shepherd is to disrupt the Japanese whaling operations to the point that it becomes economically unfeasible. At one time, simply shadowing and taking pictures of the Japanese vessels were enough to stop operations. This is no longer the case. Gary and I don't agree on much, but he is correct that the Japanese have taken the stand that Sea Shepherd are eco-terrorists and pirates. If a US-flagged cargo ship rammed a boat load of pirates off of Somalia, would your response be the same? The fact is that the UN has shown that it is not willing to step up and finally put an end to whaling, especially the whaling for "research" which is the total BS the Japanese have been operating under for years. The Japanese know this, so last year they had no problem conducting whaling operations in full view of the Sea Shepherd with the cameras rolling. Your outrage is entirely appropriate. It is outrageous that the Japanese continue to kill whales and can claim the moral high ground. ____________ Join the PACK!
	ID: 962513 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10324 Credit: 5,092,129 RAC: 6,429	Message 962556 - Posted: 10 Jan 2010, 20:43:03 UTC - in response to Message 962513. Last modified: 10 Jan 2010, 20:45:38 UTC
	Martin, Let's not forget that the stated mission of Sea Shepherd is to disrupt the Japanese whaling operations to the point that it becomes economically unfeasible. At one time, simply shadowing and taking pictures of the Japanese vessels were enough to stop operations. This is no longer the case. Quite correct about what they are doing. They seek to take food out of the mouth of the sailors aboard the Japanese ship. Try doing that in most any other situation and it is called theft and you know the reaction you will get. Gary and I don't agree on much, but he is correct that the Japanese have taken the stand that Sea Shepherd are eco-terrorists and pirates. If a US-flagged cargo ship rammed a boat load of pirates off of Somalia, would your response be the same? Drop the eco. The word to describe them is terrorist. No different than the IRA. Bob Barker and Ady Gill are no different than all the people in the USA who sent money to the IRA via "charities." They have human blood on their hands. Frankly I think some Hollywood type stands to profit off this. Make a TV show over it, poke with a stick until something happens and watch the ratings soar. Scum of the earth! And the reason the USA is hated around the globe as it is universally regarded as a reflection of Hollywood. The fact is that the UN has shown that it is not willing to step up and finally put an end to whaling, especially the whaling for "research" which is the total BS the Japanese have been operating under for years. The Japanese know this, so last year they had no problem conducting whaling operations in full view of the Sea Shepherd with the cameras rolling. I believe they call that, the UN, democracy. One country one vote. So why won't these eco's abide by majority rule of the UN? Your outrage is entirely appropriate. It is outrageous that the Japanese continue to kill whales and can claim the moral high ground. Everyone knows it is BS. The Japanese call it research to save face, which is their culture. The Whaling Commission knows it. They set a hunt limit. Just like any other hunt limit. Japanese abide by the limit. Just like any other law abiding fisherman or game hunter. Oh, if you obey the law you are on moral ground, even if it isn't the high spot. If the eco's have a problem with the hunt limit, take that it up with the people who grant the license. Prove to them the limit they granted was too high. Put up or shut up. Speaking of things, wouldn't that, six million was it, money spent on the boats have been much better spent on a scientific study to prove the hunt limit is set too high? The Japanese are right on one thing though. Some healthy whales need to be taken to be studied. If you get a pod of a couple hundred that beach themselves and you do necropsies on them you end up with one datum. Unless you have the same necropsies on healthy whales you have no datum to compare them to. That's when you find things like, hey wait a sec the level of what we thought was a terrible bacteria in the healthy whales is 20 times higher than in the sick ones! Research is not knowing what you are going to find. This one datum problem is exactly what we have here at SETI. We know that Earth supports life. We have nothing to compare with. It is why we crunch. I am totally pissed that terrorists are able to get change with their tactics. It only encourages more and more. I can see where these eco's will take it. Just wait until the global warmers adopt their tactics. Drive a gasoline car and someone shoots at you because you didn't take public transportation because it is greener. ____________
	ID: 962556 ·

VBobier Send message Joined: 30 Nov 03 Posts: 40817 Credit: 32,110,364 RAC: 19,021	Message 962568 - Posted: 10 Jan 2010, 21:26:58 UTC - in response to Message 961535. Last modified: 10 Jan 2010, 21:28:12 UTC
	Well, I think this image sums up from which side the aggression came from for the collision. I guess the helm for the Ady Gil was too slow or too disbelieving or the engines to slow to respond to get out of the way. Note also that the helm for the Japanese ship turned very hard to starboard to turn into the Ady Gil at the very last moment... See: Japanese Whalers Ram Sea Shepherd Ship Ady Gil (Looks like the Sea Shepherd site is slowly recovering from an onslaught. Their site slowly loads now for me in the UK.) The final blasting of the stricken crew with water cannon was rather a nasty final blast... I think the Japanese have gone way way OTT with that one, regardless of any claimed provocation. Utterly disgusted! Martin I don't know If any of You here know this, but here's a quote from the wiki(Starboard) and wiki(Port) on this as I suspect this turn was a turn to port and in the past ships did that in ancient times to ram another ship. wiki for Starboard wrote: Starboard is the nautical term that refers to the right side of a vessel as perceived by a person on board a vessel and facing the bow (front). ____________ BSG Anthem My Facebook page
	ID: 962568 ·

ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7137 Credit: 3,685,034 RAC: 962	Message 962604 - Posted: 11 Jan 2010, 1:19:48 UTC - in response to Message 962556. Last modified: 11 Jan 2010, 1:20:28 UTC
	... about what they are doing. They seek to take food out of the mouth of the sailors aboard the Japanese ship. Try doing that in most any other situation and it is called theft and you know the reaction you will get. I'm sure the Japanese sailors are far from starving. Most other countries have progressed from committing genocide against the whales. Most notably is Australia, nearest to the whale sanctuary, and now makes more money from boat trips to watch the whales than Japan makes from trying to slaughter them. In the very recent past, the whalers are very much to blame for over exploiting the hunting grounds to the point that there were no whales left to hunt. ... The word to describe them is terrorist. No different than the IRA. ... I think there's a whole region of people and the now "First Minister" (or whatever he calls himself) of that region that will disagree with you there. Note that Sea Shepherd have a completely unblemished record of zero injuries against their opponents in whatever protests. In contrast the Japanese whalers have used stun grenades, flash bombs, bullets, and military LRAD in return. The Japanese have now just sliced a Sea Shepherd boat in two in a very last moment attack. I believe they call that, the UN, democracy. One country one vote. Which Japan ignores in any case. The "kill quotas" are arbitrarily self imposed by Japan. They've also been caught red-handed bribing various countries on the IWC. ... Japanese abide by the limit. Just like any other law abiding fisherman or game hunter. Is that why most fish stocks are in parlous decline and such as the whales were hunted to the brink of extinction? Similar greed destroyed the Grand Banks fishing grounds. Once extinct, even for the most fantastically fecund species, that species stays extinct. Note: that's what extinct means. Note also that whales are not fecund, and will take a long time yet to recover their numbers to even just ten percent of what was seen before the times of post-war industrial fishing. If the eco's have a problem with the hunt limit, take that it up with the people who grant the license. Prove to them the limit they granted was too high. Put up or shut up. Very good joke there. More than just Sea Shepherd have been trying the Japanese politeness game for over 30 years without any positive result. A few years ago, Japan arbitrarily announced that they would kill over 1000 whales including critically endangered fin whales. Both Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd responded that year to the brazen challenge. ... The Japanese are right on one thing though. Some healthy whales need to be taken to be studied. ... Completely wrong. They are a shallow sham and a total disgrace to any 'pretence' of research and science. They have offered no worthwhile research despite all their years of whale hunts. There have been NO peer reviewed scientific papers in ANY reputable journals as far as I know. Next drunken rant from you? Or are you a Japanese apologist or on their payroll? Regards, Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 962604 ·

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Message boards : Politics : JAIL life (Japanese whalers SLICE Sea Shepherd boat IN TWO!)