Testing the Plumbing (Nov 12 2009)

I don't really comment here very often, but I have been following the technical news for years.

I've noticed in the last two or so, with increasing regularity that SETI@home seems to be suffering from "creep". Be it management creep, scope creep or mission creep. Take your pick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_%28project_management%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_creep

It seems like the projects only goal is to keep the data flowing. To perpetuate itself without end. The goal is still clear: find life, but i think the project has become bogged down in the methodology.

You're a legend Matt, your tireless work and effort are wonderful, and i appreciate you always keeping us up to date. Its not something you have to do, but i'm sure we all very much appreciate it. As you mentioned, you have been working on radar blanking, and ntpckr and achieved some wonderful results.

But I imagine how much more might be achieved if the project (the @home part) was shut down for say 12 months so all these continual bugs and things like radar blanking could be worked out without the overhanging need to keep the data pipeline flowing.

You have suggested this once before, and i think it would be a great idea. The project could be consolidated, redefined and smoothed out into something more effective and manageable so more time can be spent on analysing the data, rather than just ensuring it flows.

Just my 2c :)

I think BMgoau isn't entirely wrong, yet some of us do treat this project as though it were something more than it is.

One mis-assumption most of us have is that this project is uniquely about finding ET. That most certainly is not what it is today, although it is how seti was started. Today, the project has two themes with almost equal purpose: finding ET and developing BOINC. It isn't hard to imagine that having two masters it may be difficult to satisfy either, despite the apparent synergies between them.

Reading this thread, it appears that if data distribution were stopped, the servers would hum along nicely doing nothing and if we go full tilt, which I assume is the case today, then we have intermittent problems. Ok, then wouldn't it make sense to cut back a bit to understand the point at which the stress introduces problems, fix them, and then increase the distribution rate and fix the next layer of problems that show up, and so on? If the current budget and technology prevents solving the problem in that matter, is it efficient to run the project at a higher level? Isn't that kindof like watering your yard during a haboob? Are we wasting resources by running at too high a (distribution) level? Today this question is probably rhetorical, of course.

A professional development project would also embrace a road map methodology, which would detail how to get to certain performance goals, rather than a fire drill one. In the boinc case, if it were to be treated as 'professional', qualities like reliability would have measurable metrics and be used to structure the problem solving and development activities. Another would be the number of active hosts; I for one would like to see a goal of hosting 2x our current number of 300K active hosts within reasonable and published reliability criteria. As a counter example, the budget should not be used as an excuse, but be used as another boundary condition; few budgets are boundless, so whining about seti's is not being productive.

Another project management tool to use to demonstrate progress and achievement is the breaking of a complex project into subprojects. Seti seems to be an endless stream of calculation and filling a table that is getting more and more unwieldy. I wish they could package seti in this way, so we can say we are doing more than that, and might be a way to increase the active user base more rapidly.

The big variable in all this is probably the source of data to analyze. This fact may indeed limit the seti side of the equation, at least, or alternatively be used to justify an alternative source of data to analyze.

Ok, I'm rambling. [/ramblin]

I don't really comment here very often, but I have been following the technical news for years.
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But I imagine how much more might be achieved if the project (the @home part) was shut down for say 12 months so all these continual bugs and things like radar blanking could be worked out without the overhanging need to keep the data pipeline flowing.

I think Ned and John have made some good points.

As I understand it, there are 2 goals here: finding ET, and pushing the limits of distributed computing. Us out here in the peanut gallery expect a good data flow, but that is really only a by-product of the 2 main goals.

The analogy of the annual plant shut down is a good one only if your only goal is to maintain a high average production. A better analogy here might be found in developmental hardware testing: push it, break it, fix it, push harder till it breaks again, repeat as long as the money lasts.

It reminds me of a quote from one of my first bosses in the testing business - "if you don't break something once in awhile you are not trying hard enough".

Having said all that, many thanks to Matt and crew for all they do.
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Without having a clue of the technical aspects of SETI, I have some
rather simple questions. My last workunits are from April and now March 2007.

They have already been processed two years ago, am I right?
Why do this again? Just to simulate SETI is still intact?

What's with the signals of the last weeks, when fresh WU's run out?
Are they recorded and will be available or is the dish not working since?

If so, when will the dish work? Any guesses or estimations are welcome.

Sorry for being so impatient!

Zour, I think this has been covered before on the Number Crunching forum and here. There is no new data for a few months, but Matt and friends have implemented new radar blanking software, that permits the crunching of old data that either wasn't sent out before or bombed immediately when sent out, because of the radar interference in the data. The radar blanking software pre-processes the data, so us normal people can crunch it in a useful way.

Last I heard, fresh data should start around the end of November.
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It reminds me of a quote from one of my first bosses in the testing business - "if you don't break something once in awhile you are not trying hard enough".

You used to work for Red Green?

It reminds me of a quote from one of my first bosses in the testing business - "if you don't break something once in awhile you are not trying hard enough".

You used to work for Red Green?

Now that you mention it, he did look a little like Mr. Green. And I looked a little like Harold at the time.

Red Green actually just recycled a lot of old Canadian sayings, I think all his standards were in use long before the show started. I can only think of one that was truly original, "You're only young once, but you can always be immature".

Well ya see, we all talk like that, eh?
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Well ya see, we all talk like that, eh?

Can you recommend another project you find worth of supporting also? I have no idea where to start.