BOINC prefs on SETI vs local prefs don't seem to be talking & other oddities


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Questions and Answers : Preferences : BOINC prefs on SETI vs local prefs don't seem to be talking & other oddities

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Steve
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Message 940402 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 15:53:56 UTC
Last modified: 16 Oct 2009, 15:57:04 UTC

Several days ago I attached to WCG, and changed the prefs in BOINC (locally) to 120 minutes (Switch between applications).

Early this morning I changed the BOINC prefs (on website/network usage) from 0.5 days to 1 day. I noticed time to switch between apps was 60 minutes on SETI, but left it alone till this AM.

Checked local prefs this AM, was still set to 120 minutes - and 0.5 days of additional work buffer. I changed local prefs to 1 day, and immediately got flurry of downloaads from WCG, more than show up in the task pane. Got none from SETI.

I then clicked update on both projects - WCG uploaded 4 tasks - but tasks pane only showed 2 SETI projects ready for upload at the time (they uploaded as well after clicking project update).

BOINC has never shown no more than 10-14 tasks in the tasks pane/advanced view, the 14 or so being the high end right after I started crunching.

Anyhow, after manually selecting update on both projects - I went to SETI's prefs page for BOINC usage, and refreshed it, and it was still showing 60 minutes between tasks.

Based on messages - I have around 20-30 WU/tasks (message panel in local client calls them tasks), but where are they listed, if not in tasks pane/advanced view?

Although I got a flurry of messages from WCG - got this message from SETI:

Fri Oct 16 10:52:51 2009 SETI@home update requested by user
Fri Oct 16 10:52:52 2009 SETI@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
Fri Oct 16 10:52:52 2009 SETI@home Reporting 2 completed tasks, not requesting new tasks


I've changed the BOINC project switch time back to the recommended 60 (locally) as it seems local prefs don't reflect on SETI's BOINC prefs page, but left the "Maintain enough work for an additional 1 day" alone.

I'm totally lost now, I may have misunderstood - but thought the last prefs change sets all, no matter where it's set - locally, or on project sites (at least for core BOINC functions)

It's still crunching with no errors yet, but is of some concern that SETI did not get new tasks, tho WCG sent more than I can see. What I can see in advanced/tasks is about a 50/50 balance - what I see in messages is about 80% WCG/20% SETI, the WCG tasks are almost always much longer to complete, so I'm trying to understand the three behaviors:

    The SETI BOINC prefs did not change the client settings
    The local client prefs did not reflect a change on SETI BOINC prefs.
    Why do I have these hidden tasks - weighted in WCG's favor - when I have settings to 50/50



I'd rather not abort and restart or detach reattach, or do anything drastic if possible, to understand or diagnose this.

WCG prefs are in synch with SETI prefs for BOINC.

The only thing that comes to mind with the flurry of tasks from WCG, when I set to 1 day from 0.5 days of cache locally, is that BOINC is seeing SETI and WCG as equals - but WCG has 9 or more projects (my project of choice there is down, but have it set to accept other work if available, same as SETI) - whereas SETI only has 3 tasks (enhanced, AP, AP5).

Amyhow, I'm "guessing" that WCG and SETI, being set 50/50, are only that value when it comes to actual work being done, I've never seen an AP or AP5, tho I've opted to accept other tasks - only have enhanced checked. I'm just speculating tho - have no clue. SETI doesn't download extra tasks except as needed to keep the balance at 50/50 in BOINC - it's crunching along still tho not enough time has passed to see if the extra cache has changed something for the worse.

Sorry for the long post, just want to get a feel for things on incremental changes before getting into problems on a larger scale. Thx.

Profile Gundolf Jahn
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Message 940455 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 17:56:38 UTC - in response to Message 940402.

Several days ago I attached to WCG, and changed the prefs in BOINC (locally) to 120 minutes (Switch between applications).

Early this morning I changed the BOINC prefs (on website/network usage) from 0.5 days to 1 day. I noticed time to switch between apps was 60 minutes on SETI, but left it alone till this AM.

Checked local prefs this AM, was still set to 120 minutes - and 0.5 days of additional work buffer. I changed local prefs to 1 day, and immediately got flurry of downloaads from WCG, more than show up in the task pane. Got none from SETI.

I then clicked update on both projects - WCG uploaded 4 tasks - but tasks pane only showed 2 SETI projects ready for upload at the time (they uploaded as well after clicking project update).

I think you meant "2 SETI tasks". They and the WCG ones already had been uploaded before and now were reported. The Status column in Tasks tab probably showed "Ready to report" before you clicked Update. See also this message (and the following ones).

BOINC has never shown no more than 10-14 tasks in the tasks pane/advanced view, the 14 or so being the high end right after I started crunching.

Anyhow, after manually selecting update on both projects - I went to SETI's prefs page for BOINC usage, and refreshed it, and it was still showing 60 minutes between tasks.

Of course: the local preferences override the online ones, they aren't exported.

Based on messages - I have around 20-30 WU/tasks (message panel in local client calls them tasks), but where are they listed, if not in tasks pane/advanced view?

Although I got a flurry of messages from WCG - got this message from SETI:

Fri Oct 16 10:52:51 2009 SETI@home update requested by user
Fri Oct 16 10:52:52 2009 SETI@home Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
Fri Oct 16 10:52:52 2009 SETI@home Reporting 2 completed tasks, not requesting new tasks


I've changed the BOINC project switch time back to the recommended 60 (locally) as it seems local prefs don't reflect on SETI's BOINC prefs page, but left the "Maintain enough work for an additional 1 day" alone.

I'm totally lost now, I may have misunderstood - but thought the last prefs change sets all, no matter where it's set - locally, or on project sites (at least for core BOINC functions)

That's what you misunderstood: The local preferences override the online ones. Only the online computing preferences are shared ("the last one wins"), see my comment above.

It's still crunching with no errors yet, but is of some concern that SETI did not get new tasks, tho WCG sent more than I can see. What I can see in advanced/tasks is about a 50/50 balance - what I see in messages is about 80% WCG/20% SETI, the WCG tasks are almost always much longer to complete, so I'm trying to understand the three behaviors:

    The SETI BOINC prefs did not change the client settings
    The local client prefs did not reflect a change on SETI BOINC prefs.
    Why do I have these hidden tasks - weighted in WCG's favor - when I have settings to 50/50

I'd rather not abort and restart or detach reattach, or do anything drastic if possible, to understand or diagnose this.


That's the right way :-)
Point one and two I have already covered, I think.
I can't tell you much about WCG tasks, since I'm not attached there, but it's possible that one WCG task consists of several files that are downloaded separately. I know that behaviour from Einstein@home.

WCG prefs are in synch with SETI prefs for BOINC.

The only thing that comes to mind with the flurry of tasks from WCG, when I set to 1 day from 0.5 days of cache locally, is that BOINC is seeing SETI and WCG as equals - but WCG has 9 or more projects (my project of choice there is down, but have it set to accept other work if available, same as SETI) - whereas SETI only has 3 tasks (enhanced, AP, AP5).

That's not "tasks", that's "applications" :-) and you are right, SETI and WCG are equals, seen over all sub-projects or applications. The resource share is related to the total computing time used by each project.

Anyhow, I'm "guessing" that WCG and SETI, being set 50/50, are only that value when it comes to actual work being done, I've never seen an AP or AP5, tho I've opted to accept other tasks - only have enhanced checked. I'm just speculating tho - have no clue. SETI doesn't download extra tasks except as needed to keep the balance at 50/50 in BOINC - it's crunching along still tho not enough time has passed to see if the extra cache has changed something for the worse.

Sorry for the long post, just want to get a feel for things on incremental changes before getting into problems on a larger scale. Thx.

The fact that you haven't received any AP tasks is only bad luck, as they are generated in a 1:30 ratio (approx.) to MB tasks. Many people have complained about the lack of AP tasks :-)

Gruß,
Gundolf

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Steve
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Message 940484 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 19:18:33 UTC - in response to Message 940455.
Last modified: 16 Oct 2009, 19:19:49 UTC

Appreciate the reply,

Yes, I meant tasks rather than projects, if I had two projects to report after less than a month on an iMac, I suppose people would be asking me odd questions :)

Your replies basically covered my questions, thank you - for the moment have only two still am unclear on:

1. In advanced/task view, the progress meter moves up until it's green, to completion goes blank, and status changes from running to ready to report. I'll snip a bit of log to help visualize where I'm having trouble understanding this.

Wed Oct 14 14:54:30 2009 SETI@home Started upload of 11se09ag.3895.24607.15.10.182_1_0
Wed Oct 14 14:54:34 2009 SETI@home Finished upload of 11se09ag.3895.24607.15.10.182_1_0
Wed Oct 14 17:22:46 2009 SETI@home Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
Wed Oct 14 17:22:46 2009 SETI@home Reporting 2 completed tasks, requesting new tasks
Wed Oct 14 17:22:51 2009 SETI@home Scheduler request completed: got 1 new tasks
Wed Oct 14 17:22:53 2009 SETI@home Started download of 12se09ac.14593.258555.8.10.60
Wed Oct 14 17:22:56 2009 SETI@home Finished download of 12se09ac.14593.258555.8.10.60


I'm trying to understand why the green, complete and apparently uploaded "ready to report" tasks remain "ready to report" on my end - I mean, if they're already uploaded, and as done as my PC can make them? If I were to inadvertently cancel a "ready to report" - regardless of the upload - it would cancel the wu, correct?

2. Given all that you explained (again, thanks) - what advantage, if any, is there to using the various project BOINC preference pages if they would have no effect on the local client - the only option I see in the local client is to "clck clear to restore web-based settings" I could see some advantage if I were using multiple machines, but wished my "daily driver" to have options - but as it appears BOINC itself has similar features built in for multiple computers - is there any advantage to web settings vs client settings even in that situation? Only one I can think of is if I were running machines at multiple physical locations, on different networks, without direct control otherwise - but if there are other advantages, or disadvantages to web vs local prefs, please let me know.

Thanks!

Thx.

Profile Gundolf Jahn
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Message 940513 - Posted: 16 Oct 2009, 20:38:53 UTC - in response to Message 940484.

1. In advanced/task view, the progress meter moves up until it's green, to completion goes blank, and status changes from running to ready to report. I'll snip a bit of log to help visualize where I'm having trouble understanding this.

Here, the status would be "Uploading"
Wed Oct 14 14:54:30 2009 SETI@home Started upload of 11se09ag.3895.24607.15.10.182_1_0
Wed Oct 14 14:54:34 2009 SETI@home Finished upload of 11se09ag.3895.24607.15.10.182_1_0

Now it's "Ready to report"
Wed Oct 14 17:22:46 2009 SETI@home Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
Wed Oct 14 17:22:46 2009 SETI@home Reporting 2 completed tasks, requesting new tasks
Wed Oct 14 17:22:51 2009 SETI@home Scheduler request completed: got 1 new tasks

Now it's acknowledged, disappears from the Tasks list in BOINC manager and appears as "Completed,..." in the online task list.
Wed Oct 14 17:22:53 2009 SETI@home Started download of 12se09ac.14593.258555.8.10.60
Wed Oct 14 17:22:56 2009 SETI@home Finished download of 12se09ac.14593.258555.8.10.60


I'm trying to understand why the green, complete and apparently uploaded "ready to report" tasks remain "ready to report" on my end - I mean, if they're already uploaded, and as done as my PC can make them? If I were to inadvertently cancel a "ready to report" - regardless of the upload - it would cancel the wu, correct?

Did you see the link in my previous answer? I'll quote a similar message from the BOINC dev boards:
Ageless wrote:
Uploading and reporting are two different processes.

Uploading happens immediately at the end of a task and is a straight copy of a data file from your computer's hard drive to the server's hard drive.

Reporting will use the database and tell it that you finished task such and so and at what outcome. Reporting multiple tasks at once takes less overhead than reporting one task at a time. This is why BOINC will usually wait 24 hours after the first task is ready to report before it will try to report it, to try to report more than one task at a time.

Completed work is reported at the first of:

1) 24 hours before deadline
2) Connect Every X before deadline.
3) Immediately if it is later than either 1 or 2 upon completion of the task.
4) 24 hours after completion.
5) On a trickle up message (CPDN only, I believe).
6) On a trickle down request.
7) On a server scheduled connection. Used, but I am not certain by which project.
8) On a request for new work.
9) When the user pushes the update button.
10) On an account manager request. (BAM!, GridRepublic, )

<snip>

BOINC works on a by debt basis. CPU time spent on one project is equally paid back to other projects you are attached to. So it can happen that when the debt for one project is so large, that BOINC will not download new work for that project until its debt has been equalized towards that of the other projects you are attached to.


2. Given all that you explained (again, thanks) - what advantage, if any, is there to using the various project BOINC preference pages if they would have no effect on the local client - the only option I see in the local client is to "clck clear to restore web-based settings" I could see some advantage if I were using multiple machines, but wished my "daily driver" to have options - but as it appears BOINC itself has similar features built in for multiple computers - is there any advantage to web settings vs client settings even in that situation? Only one I can think of is if I were running machines at multiple physical locations, on different networks, without direct control otherwise - but if there are other advantages, or disadvantages to web vs local prefs, please let me know.

The only advantage I see for the online preferences is indeed that you can control several computers from a single point. You are right that you can only restore the online preferences by clearing the local ones. However, there are some preferences that don't exist locally and hence aren't overridden by the local ones.

Gruß,
Gundolf

Steve
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Message 940811 - Posted: 17 Oct 2009, 15:41:02 UTC - in response to Message 940513.

Thanks Gundolf -

I am am sure I don't totally understand Ageless's post that you linked to (no offense intended - just a matter of advanced experience vs limited experience on my part), but my core questions seem answered betwixt it all, until next time anyhow.

Thx!

Questions and Answers : Preferences : BOINC prefs on SETI vs local prefs don't seem to be talking & other oddities

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