I've been chugging away with an out of date boinc version for a week or so. Isn't there some way to have BOINC check for a new version when it launches? Or to email participants telling them a new version is out?

As it is, it seems that a couple of completed WUs are wasted because the old version couldn't be uploaded. Annoying...

Also annoying, and frustrating, is the apparent lack of support by boinc/seti@home personnel in these forums. Questions persist a long time without answers, and the answers that do appear seem to be from other users. Boinc and Seti@home are supposed to be collaborative projects, but it seems lately like all we do is chug along on our own, and that seti in particular is plagued by problems that result in a lot of frustration and wasted cpu time...

As far as I'm aware, the new version only came out two days ago but the recent failed uploads weren't to do with that. The new version came out as a fix for the then existing problem. This is what it says in the news archive:

"October 9, 2004
A problem with file uploads has existed for the last few days. This problem causes file uploads to fail. We now understand the problem and are working on a fix - it will probably require upgrading your BOINC client. Please stay tuned."

I agree there should be an email alert letting us know there are new versions. I only happened to find out about the latest update because I was subscribed to a thread about the problem with failed uploads.

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"Also annoying, and frustrating, is the apparent lack of support by boinc/seti@home personnel in these forums. Questions persist a long time without answers, and the answers that do appear seem to be from other users."

Although I can't find exactly where this is stated, these forums are where users help and communicate with each other. SETI staff almost never comment or answer any question. Hopefully they check around here a little once in a while to find out if something is going on that they're not aware of, but this is just a hope.

I've also asked questions that have gone unanswered. When I figure them out, I answer myself. I think this will change once more people migrate here. And i haven't found many links to these boards either. I think there are many who haven't even found there way here yet.

Don't forget, this is not a commercial enterprise. We don't pay Seti for this, we're volunteers. And Seti has no revenue from us to hire staff to answer questions. They're probably all undergrad, grad and maybe post-grad students.

North

Check here once in a while for new version The crew is short handed so you need to do some of the leg work...........

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Semper Eadem
So long Paul, it has been a hell of a ride.

Park your ego's, fire up the computers, Science YES, Credits No.

> Check here once in a while for new version
>
>
> these forums are where users help and communicate with each other
>
> We don't pay Seti for this, we're volunteers.


Well, yes, I am a volunteer, but the Seti people could - or should - do more to help the volunteer work. It should be part of any contract - spoken or otherwise - with volunteers that there is feedback and support and encouragement. Otherwise the volunteers are and/or come to feel like exploited and essentially worthless drudges. Notifying users of big problems (uploads abandoned) and important new versions is a key part of support. Addressing serious or common questions, rather than letting users muddle along on their own (singly or together) likewise.

This is particularly true, I think, since the transition to the seti boinc version has been so bumpy, compared to the mature and stable classic seti client.

The seti project - and climate prediction and the other distributed computing projects - do not exist without the volunteers; they are nothing without the volunteers - the volunteers are the key and the core. If the volunteers are feeling hard done by, abused, ignored, whatever - as many posts here suggest - the project has a serious problem. A key part of the project has to be supporting the key component - the volunteers. So a lack of funds is not an answer - you don't fail to fund the key component of your project - if you do you are just asking for failure.

Have these user boards - they are great and have a good role to play. But there needs to be more professional support - more support and more professionalism both.

I'm not one of those that is saying 'seti sucks, I'm out of here.' But there have been a lot of those and they indicate a serious, serious problem. I'd like to see something done about it - something more than dumping more onto the volunteers - which is what these boards represent - asking the volunteers to do even more work rather than taking responsibility and addressing key issues...

To take just one thing - how hard/expensive would it be to have an opt-in list for info on new versions and major announcements, rather than requiring users to check here. I mean, really, come on....

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YEA Verily!!!!!

> > Check here once in a while for new version
> >
> >
> > these forums are where users help and communicate with each other
> >
> > We don't pay Seti for this, we're volunteers.
>
>
> Well, yes, I am a volunteer, but the Seti people could - or should - do more
> to help the volunteer work. It should be part of any contract - spoken or
> otherwise - with volunteers that there is feedback and support and
> encouragement. Otherwise the volunteers are and/or come to feel like exploited
> and essentially worthless drudges. Notifying users of big problems (uploads
> abandoned) and important new versions is a key part of support. Addressing
> serious or common questions, rather than letting users muddle along on their
> own (singly or together) likewise.
>
> This is particularly true, I think, since the transition to the seti boinc
> version has been so bumpy, comparable to the mature and stable classic seti
> client.
>
> The seti project - and climate prediction and the other distributed computing
> projects - do not exist without the volunteers; they are nothing without the
> volunteers - the volunteers are the key and the core. If the volunteers are
> feeling hard done by, abused, ignored, whatever - as many posts here suggest -
> the project has a serious problem. A key part of the project has to be
> supporting the key component - the volunteers. So a lack of funds is not an
> answer - you don't fail to fund the key component of your project - if you do
> you are just asking for failure.
>
> Have these user boards - they are great and have a good role to play. But
> there needs to more professional support - more support and more
> professionalism both.
>
> I'm not one of those that is saying 'seti sucks, I'm out of here.' But there
> have been a lot of those and they indicate a serious, serious problem. I'd
> like to see something done about it - something more than dumping more onto
> the volunteers - which is what these boards representing - asking the
> volunteers to to do even more work rather than taking responsibility...
>
> To take just one thing - how hard/expensive would it be to have an opt-in list
> for info on new versions and major announcements, rather than requiring users
> to check here. I mean, really, come on....
>

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LarryB56

Of course, there is a certain irony in posting here a critique of SETI@home when one of the elements of that critique is that the staff don't seem to read or respond to posts here...

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as to the reason why with using pre 4.13 boinc versions, is that the upload error was a bug.. thats from what I read at the Team MacNN forums and some other sources.. I myself use the team MacNN compiles of boinc that you can find here, i use the beta version.. I also suggest getting the seti worker at this page http://members.dslextreme.com/~readerforum/forum_team/boinc.html, but don't use boinc that came with that, make sure you put the boinc4 folder where you want, then just go ahead and delete the boinc worker, and then get the boinc version 4.13 @ http://members.dslextreme.com/~readerforum/forum_team/boincbeta.html and put it in the folder boinc4 or whetever ya want it named. type in chmod u+x boinc(press tab key to complete the rest of the name) press return, this will make it executable then type in ./boinc(press tab key once agian) press return, and now your running..

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That's a lot of hoops and hassles for a volunteer to go through to help out some scientific research...



It is perhaps noteworthy that I got personal emails from someone with the Climate Prediction project when I had a problem getting that project to run on my Mac, emails which continued until the problem was solved and thanked me for helping with the project. And what with one problem after another here at s@h boinc, I have crunched more data for CP than for s@h through boinc, even though s@h has priority.

Maybe S@H is a victim of its own success - either overloaded with work, or with so many volunteers that it doesn't feel any real responsibility or commitment to them anymore. To be fair, though, I suspect that many - perhaps most or all - of the individuals working on s@h feel tremendously grateful, and it is rather that the system/institution/structure has spun out of control and lost sight of some fundamentals. Getting into the Guinness Book of World Records may have gone to its head...

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To say that boinc S@H is overloaded is not true at least right now, This is why they have the technical and server links to let users know whats going on.. And for me I do not have any troubles with boinc/seti since the summer (late august) and since i have updated from 10.2.8 to 10.3, and also with the latest update to 4.13 since an earlier version had a bug relating to uploading done work units.. This whole argument about the boinc seti version is not worth it well if you think that than do something else, then there will be more work for the rest of us.. and also its time for some of us to learn how to run boinc correctly as well IMHO... Stop using this forum to start complaining please and use it for questions and helping others having problems, alot of people have gotten help from me and appreciate it and others have helped as well.. I appreciate those here that did as well for me..
>
> Maybe S@H is a victim of its own success - either overloaded with work, or
> with so many volunteers that it doesn't feel any real responsibility or
> commitment to them anymore. To be fair, though, I suspect that many - perhaps
> most or all - of the individuals working on s@h feel tremendously grateful,
> and it is rather that the system/institution/structure has spun out of control
> and lost sight of some fundamentals. Getting into the Guinness Book of World
> Records may have gone to its head...
>

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> To say that boinc S@H is overloaded is not true at least right now, This is

I was suggesting something more general - they've had trouble since the switch to BOINC keeping all the servers running, keeping the work flowing through, patching problems, etc. Things go okay for a while and then there is another hiccup...

> why they have the technical and server links to let users know whats going
> on.. And for me I do not have any troubles with boinc/seti since the

Since S@H runs more or less automatically, it would be convenient if there were a more or less automatic way of keeping users notified of important information - problems with versions, major server problems, new versions, etc. That was a key part of my original post. Requiring users to come here to check for these problems, new versions, etc., just seems wrong-headed, a mistake, perhaps even a bit unprofessional. It doesn't make sense, given how S@H runs - we might just leave it chugging along in the background for ages - with bad data, an out of date version, etc. And it isn't the right way to deal with the volunteers - it's not useful and not respectul - to require them to regularly check the website for crucial stuff.

> uploading done work units.. This whole argument about the boinc seti version
> is not worth it well if you think that than do something else, then there
> will be more work for the rest of us.. and also its time for some of us

There won't be more work for the rest - there is too much work still, I think. And this misses the whole point - I never said it wasn't 'worth it.' I said the program is not being run well and it is relying on people who are willing to do anything to crunch some units - for whatever reason - rather than treating the volunteers with respect and in a way that maximizes the usefulness of the process for everyone.


> to learn how to run boinc correctly as well IMHO... Stop using this
> forum to start complaining please and use it for questions and helping

These forums are for more than just questions and problems - they are for discussion. They are vital for problem solving, however, since the BOINC application has been so difficult for so many and there has been so little support. Again, this was part of my original post.

> others having problems, alot of people have gotten help from me and
> appreciate it and others have helped as well.. I appreciate those here that
> did as well for me..
> >

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