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Message 924206 - Posted: 6 Aug 2009, 23:19:57 UTC - in response to Message 924202.

Steppenwolf coined the term "heavy metal" on their first album, so how could anybody be playing it before that?

The first Steppenwolf album was released in 1968, but the band had been playing together as The Sparrows since January 1965. In Canada. Have to admit I don't know the early history of Black Sabbath.

If you're going to get all hung up on "style" and "content" of the music, you will wind up tracing it all back to Les Paul. Or maybe Bo Diddly. Neither of them are Canadian, but they still made really nice music.
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Message 924208 - Posted: 6 Aug 2009, 23:38:04 UTC - in response to Message 924206.
Last modified: 6 Aug 2009, 23:45:24 UTC

Steppenwolf coined the term "heavy metal" on their first album, so how could anybody be playing it before that?


Coining a term doesn't make you the progenitor of the style. They were definitely hard rock. Heavy metal is all about the deep, hard sound and the doomy, eerie lyrics that go along with it. That doesn't describe Steppenwolf at all, does it?

Hard rock, on the other hand is all about taking the old rock 'n roll from the 50's (which itself came from rockabilly), making it louder, longer and yes, heavier. The lyrics are typically focused on sex, drugs and music, living a wild lifestyle and being carefree. Bands such as the Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Aerosmith and many others all fall into this category.

The first Steppenwolf album was released in 1968, but the band had been playing together as The Sparrows since January 1965. In Canada. Have to admit I don't know the early history of Black Sabbath.


Sabbath formed as early as 1963, but as I said, under a different name and a slightly different sound.

Regardless, Steppenwolf, despite calling their first album "heavy metal" were definitely nothing of the sort!

If you're going to get all hung up on "style" and "content" of the music, you will wind up tracing it all back to Les Paul. Or maybe Bo Diddly. Neither of them are Canadian, but they still made really nice music.


Oh sure. You can trace heavy metal/hard rock back to its R&B/rockabilly roots, and those can be traced back to gospel and folk music, and those can be traced back to smaller cinquains sung by bards. Boy, those bards sure were the first rock and rollers! :)

We can also go the other direction and discuss the first recordings of speed metal, thrash metal and death metal too. ;)
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Message 924209 - Posted: 6 Aug 2009, 23:46:16 UTC



. . . look @ the History of Music right here

> all is available - just do your search right . . .

< as for 'How to start another war' - here's Gossip

and, as well here: 'Music for Men'

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Message 924213 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 0:06:56 UTC - in response to Message 924208.

Heavy metal is all about the deep, hard sound and the doomy, eerie lyrics that go along with it. That doesn't describe Steppenwolf at all, does it?


Then it sort of goes back to Gregorian chant, or maybe Celtic sea shanties, doesn't it?

Personally, I can't get too hung up on labels. They always make me suspicious, since so many of them are made up by The Man in order to push another load of crap on us. To me, it is all about what you like.

By the way, I still have Paranoid on vinyl. This is my second copy, bought in about 1973, after I wore the first one out. I got a better turntable about then, so this second one is still in decent shape. Especially when played LOUD :)
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Message 924214 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 0:10:29 UTC - in response to Message 924213.

Heavy metal is all about the deep, hard sound and the doomy, eerie lyrics that go along with it. That doesn't describe Steppenwolf at all, does it?


Then it sort of goes back to Gregorian chant, or maybe Celtic sea shanties, doesn't it?

Personally, I can't get too hung up on labels. They always make me suspicious, since so many of them are made up by The Man in order to push another load of crap on us. To me, it is all about what you like.

By the way, I still have Paranoid on vinyl. This is my second copy, bought in about 1973, after I wore the first one out. I got a better turntable about then, so this second one is still in decent shape. Especially when played LOUD :)


. . . i remember Steppenwolf playin' all the circuits in Milwaukee during my stint @ MSOE - 1969 / 1970


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Message 924217 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 0:18:46 UTC - in response to Message 924213.
Last modified: 7 Aug 2009, 0:23:33 UTC

Heavy metal is all about the deep, hard sound and the doomy, eerie lyrics that go along with it. That doesn't describe Steppenwolf at all, does it?


Then it sort of goes back to Gregorian chant, or maybe Celtic sea shanties, doesn't it?


Doesn't have the right sound though.

Personally, I can't get too hung up on labels. They always make me suspicious, since so many of them are made up by The Man in order to push another load of crap on us. To me, it is all about what you like.


I agree it is all about what you like, and I like lots of different types of music (including a tad bit of country) with the exception of anything Rap, Hip Hop or Dance (and even then, there's an exception because I like Coolio's Gangster's Paradise).

Respectfully, I don't believe in any such "man" trying to control all things we see, hear and do. Marketing will always try to put their slant on it, but those of us intelligent enough to see through the BS of marketing knows that "the man" can never control us, therefore there is nothing to be worried about.

By the way, I still have Paranoid on vinyl. This is my second copy, bought in about 1973, after I wore the first one out. I got a better turntable about then, so this second one is still in decent shape. Especially when played LOUD :)


I don't know at what point they changed it, but if its one of the original releases the song War Pigs/Luke's Wall had some questionable lyrics in which they sing about casting a Priest into the fire. This line outraged many of the religious right and they were forced to change the line in subsequent releases of the vinyl and all copies released on tape & CD.
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Message 924218 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 0:30:03 UTC - in response to Message 924217.


I agree it is all about what you like, and I like lots of different types of music (including a tad bit of country) with the exception of anything Rap, Hip Hop or Dance (and even then, there's an exception because I like Coolio's Gangster's Paradise).


And don't forget the Beastie Boys. Hey laaaadies!

Respectfully, I don't believe in any such "man" trying to control all things we see, hear and do. Marketing will always try to put their slant on it, but those of us intelligent enough to see through the BS of marketing knows that "the man" can never control us


So you and I know about it, but who is buying all that crap? People who obey The Man (in my opinion). In my lexicon The Man isn't necessarily controlling how we think, just how we spend.

I don't know at what point they changed it, but if its one of the originals the song War Pigs on vinyl has the original lyrics to War Pigs/Luke's Wall in which they sing about casting a Priest into the fire.


I'm warming up my amp right now, and will report later.
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Message 924220 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 0:36:05 UTC - in response to Message 924218.

And don't forget the Beastie Boys. Hey laaaadies!


Can't stand the Beastie Boys. They annoy me greatly!

So you and I know about it, but who is buying all that crap? People who obey The Man (in my opinion). In my lexicon The Man isn't necessarily controlling how we think, just how we spend.


I don't think its so much as an entity out there controlling anything we do, rather people are simply given a reason to part with their money. I know many people that buy stupid things not because of "the man" or marketing, but because they simply have to spend it. I prefer not to believe in this "man", which is an external thing we can blame our faults on, and instead blame the individuals who are took weak to think for themselves, or don't care to even put some effort into thinking for themselves.

I don't know at what point they changed it, but if its one of the originals the song War Pigs on vinyl has the original lyrics to War Pigs/Luke's Wall in which they sing about casting a Priest into the fire.


I'm warming up my amp right now, and will report later.


Great! :)
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Message 924313 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 13:23:36 UTC - in response to Message 924220.
Last modified: 7 Aug 2009, 13:32:18 UTC

Well, it appears I have the politically correct edition. Oh well.

Still, it was an interesting experience, playing that LP for the first time in about 10 years. You are right about the doomy, eerie sound. I had forgotten how slow they sometimes played, for electrical rock type music.

I prefer to find similarities between bands, rather than putting them in stamp collecting kind of categories. The other band that kept popping into my mind while listening to War Pigs and Iron Man was Blue Rodeo. Clearly not heavy metal, some would say not even really rock. But they have the same stately pace and sombre lyrics, especially in some of their early electric stuff.

And I guess that brings us back to Eric's attempt to fan the flames in the whole country versus rock thing. Not buying it. There are really only two kinds of music: music you like, and music you don't like. Even "music" can be too restrictive a label. If you insist on rhythm and melody, you never get to discover things like the Nihilist Spasm Band. From right here in London.

Here is a nice easy piece to introduce you to the NSB.
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Message 924377 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 18:18:10 UTC - in response to Message 924139.


On second thought....

It can't be much of an accord, given that "Donnie" isn't much of a rock and roller, and "Marie" isn't all that country.


The problem with a two party system is that so called moderates usually write the compromises.


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Message 924378 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 18:26:31 UTC - in response to Message 924377.

i'm an independent who likes rock, nascar, and can tell when government is screwing up... which is 22/6 hrs/days a week.
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Message 924382 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 18:41:16 UTC - in response to Message 924377.


On second thought....

It can't be much of an accord, given that "Donnie" isn't much of a rock and roller, and "Marie" isn't all that country.


The problem with a two party system is that so called moderates usually write the compromises.



No easy answer there. we had a nice three party system for years in Canada, two of them took turns being the government while the third one kept them both honest. That has exploded over the last few years into a 4 maybe 5 sometimes 6 party system. This has resulted in a series of minority governments, all of them unstable - in every sense of that term. It also leaves the majority of Canadians looking at their government in amazement and saying "who on earth voted for THEM?!?!?!"
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Message 924390 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 19:47:37 UTC - in response to Message 924377.


On second thought....

It can't be much of an accord, given that "Donnie" isn't much of a rock and roller, and "Marie" isn't all that country.


The problem with a two party system is that so called moderates usually write the compromises.


I'm perfectly okay with a two-party system as long as the bands are good, and they have an open bar.
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Message 924412 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 20:27:32 UTC - in response to Message 924390.



The problem with a two party system is that so called moderates usually write the compromises.


I'm perfectly okay with a two-party system as long as the bands are good, and they have an open bar.


The two-party system is usually B.Y.O.B, and the entertainment is usually watching people knit.
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Message 924422 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 21:21:48 UTC - in response to Message 924412.



The problem with a two party system is that so called moderates usually write the compromises.


I'm perfectly okay with a two-party system as long as the bands are good, and they have an open bar.


The two-party system is usually B.Y.O.B, and the entertainment is usually watching people knit.

Bring Your Own Band?? Could get crowded.
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Message 924425 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 21:33:26 UTC - in response to Message 924422.



The problem with a two party system is that so called moderates usually write the compromises.


I'm perfectly okay with a two-party system as long as the bands are good, and they have an open bar.


The two-party system is usually B.Y.O.B, and the entertainment is usually watching people knit.

Bring Your Own Band?? Could get crowded.


'. . . watching people knit'

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Message 924442 - Posted: 7 Aug 2009, 23:34:03 UTC - in response to Message 924425.

Actually, I think she is crocheting.

And, I think he meant Bring Your Own Burgers. In case it's a vegetarian thing.

"I didn't reach the top of the food chain to eat salad!" Nihilist Spasm Band
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Message 924491 - Posted: 8 Aug 2009, 3:41:13 UTC - in response to Message 924442.

"I didn't reach the top of the food chain to eat salad!" Nihilist Spasm Band

Which really is an interesting comment.

If you go back far enough in human history (not all of it is written) we find tribal societies where men hunt and women did the farming.

... and that explains why Men are more left-brain (using weapons) and Women are more right-brain.

... and why we like a good steakhouse and they like a place with a salad bar.

If we haven't got a war started yet, maybe that'll do it?
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Message 924594 - Posted: 8 Aug 2009, 13:09:43 UTC - in response to Message 924491.

Personally, I find any discussion of evolutionary differences between men and women utterly fascinating, partly because it explains so much in our daily life (as Ned pointed out) and partly because I am, by nature, a $hit disturber.

Don't remember the speaker's name, but many years ago I heard a lecturer sum it up all beautifully. If you don't believe there are fundamental differences in how we work, just watch how men and women handle shared tasks. Watch two men moving a fridge through a narrow doorway. Lots of gestures, facial expressions, quiet grunts, and almost spooky understanding of each others intent, getting the job done with minimal noise. Just like hunting mammoths. Now listen (and I do mean listen) to two women doing anything together. Just like they were scaring away small predators while gathering roots and berries. We are all hard wired, it seems.

By the way, the lyricist for the NSB is (obviously) a man.
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Message 924663 - Posted: 8 Aug 2009, 16:30:36 UTC - in response to Message 924594.

Personally, I find any discussion of evolutionary differences between men and women utterly fascinating, partly because it explains so much in our daily life (as Ned pointed out)

Actually, a big part of what happened is the "software" in the male brain is very well developed for fine muscle control (throwing spears, bow and arrow, etc.) in the left hemisphere.

When language developed, the left brain was pretty full, so language went in on the right.

Women, as gatherers and growers, didn't need the same left-brain development, so there was room for language processing in both halves.

Which is why men are at a slight disadvantage when talking to women.

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