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Our team is celebrating its 10 year existence on September 25 (2009) and because there wouldn't be us without SETI@HOME we are doing something more than just crunch...
We do a donation challenge!
We are now at € 215,- (about $ 300,-) and hope to make it a nice large figure for the cause :D
(more info at www.seti.nl)
And this is not all...
Our stats system has improved greatly in the last year.. and we (I) think that we can provide the stats for a real Gauntlet.. We will have to invest quite a bit of time in creating a good system to create it all.. so at this point we'd like to know if more (sub)teams/people are interested in participating..
The donation challenge will end on September 25, and we are planning/hoping to start the Gauntlet on that day.
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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For information, questions and/or application you can also visit our forum
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Eesger,
I posted about setting up a gauntlet several months ago on your S@NL forum, but at the time we had nobody to do stats. I asked several people but no luck, so it just fizzled out.
Just recently, one of the guys on our team, BrunoTheQuestionable, started working on a special competition script for the purpose of holding competitions on SETI@home or the script could be used on other BOINC projects too. Bruno has this script at a reasonably advanced stage of development, but its not finished yet, it still needs more work. We have started our first competition test run with the new script and today Bruno produced his first stats graph from the script. Its looking good so far.
What is your current position with your stats script? Do you have someone who can do a script to handle a few hundred users?
I make you the offer, if you want to be patient with us we might be able to get this script developed and working within a few days or weeks.
John.
www.paddysinspace.com
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I've been working for about a year now on our stats.. (take a look ;) It contains all SETI@HOME users, so the amount of data shouldn't be the problem (if it can handle all the users, it should be able to handle a portion ;)
I've made it pretty modular, which (should :D) make it not to complex to create a subteam structure based upon the current team-structure.
One of the only things that do not run smoothly is the history generation of the user table, which is quite large. This somehow always hangs half way into the process :(.. but there is also a status-system, so the history sync script figures out where it got stuck and continues. Other team members are now busy building a new server (more CPU power, newer LAMP versions) Which should solve that.
But, if BrunoTheQuestionable is almost done.. (you mention days/weeks) that would take the pressure off me ;) When you can give me/us a link, that would be great :D
PS: the stats-update is automatic or manually? The credit system is comparable to the current team-system (like the previous Gauntlet)?
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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More news on the 'donation challenge' part:
We are now at $ 373 (and my donation of $49 isn't even in there yet :D) We should be able to hit $500 easily if this keeps up!
(We should do this more often :p)
PS: 'wierd' amounts due to € => $ conversion
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Hi Eesger,
It looks like we're thinking along the same lines. You can follow the development of the Gauntlet software at the end of this thread
http://www.paddysinspace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=455&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60
on the PADDY'SINSPACE forum. Please feel free to join in the discussion - there's still time to incorporate new ideas you may have. It works the same way as the previous Gauntlet. The only manual intervention required is to start it at the beginning of the competition, and stop it at the end. |
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As far as I can see you are at the stage of getting and organizing the data, have you built graphics and tables?
Ehm, you are not using the standard export files at?:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/stats/
(questions, questions ;) )
In other news today;)
Due to an (over?;)active treasurer the status of the donation challenge has been updated again: $ 653 (!!!!!)
[edit]
Ow, and welcome to this forum also! ;)
[/edit]
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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The data capture is complete. It uses the RPC show_user.php?userid=XXXXXX&format=xml
Only the main Gauntlet graph (the one in the above thread) is complete so far. I hope to have the graphs showing the users in each team done by the end of today. The tables should be complete next week. |
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I don't know how many crunchers will attend the Gauntlet, but the more crunchers attend, the bigger the problem... you are retrieving the data per cruncher. To get the best result you would need a "snapshot".
This could be done by getting the various 'show_user.php?userid=XXXXXX&format=xml' as fast as you can get them to mimic a snapshot. But doing so will be a small DoS-like action on the Berkeley servers! (the more crunchers, the higher the load). And trust me, they don't like that!!
To alleviate the stress on the Berkeley-servers you could implement a timer between each get-request. But this would not be good for the Gauntlet-stats (i.e. the last cruncher may have an hour extra crunchtime compared the the first).
The best way to go is to use the generated stats exports...
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Point taken, but he last users would not have an extra hour of crunch time as their start time would be delayed by the same amount - their crunch window would just be shifted in time. Thanks for the tip, Eesger - I'll check out the stats exports. |
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Update: The Seti@Netherlands Fund Raising Rally status: $ 653,--
see:
http://www.seti.nl "fund raising for Seti@Home" topic
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Hey Fred,
Your post is indeed great news, so good that I had posted that already ;)
@Bruno,
Ah, offcource, both measuring points shift in time.. also point taken ;)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Eesger,
Bruno suggested on our board that it might be good to have both people doing stats, its good in case one set of stats fail. We learned a valuable lesson last time with stats problems, its good to have 2 people doing them.
Bruno's script is using rpc's and working off a test xml user list i made. I invented a fictitious competition with 3 teams and about 30 users, but the users on the teams are real!. So the stats Bruno is producing at the moment are real stats for real users, they just don't know they are in this temporary team...LOL . But this is identical to a real gauntlet, just like last time, we are adding the users by hand. This could be automated in time with a small script for joining the competition, i can write this php script.
The test xml file is the same kind of list of users as the last gauntlet. Users would only be on the list if they posted a message to say they want to be in the competition with their user id and user name, in their own team forum with their own gauntlet message.
Eesger would you like to try use a similar xml file as a method of getting the list of users and teams entered in the competition? If we are both working off the same list, with the same format, then this makes administration of the stats and competition easier.
Fictitious test competition file; http://www.boincteams.com/testpages/gauntlet2009/sample-gauntlet-102.xml
{NOTE} The users in the fictious competition are on teams, but the team they are on might not be their real team. But this is exactly the way we need it for the gauntlet. Anyone can join any team.
John.
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Johnney/Bruno,
I agree, I think that is a good idea.
I'll have to build a script that is able to read (and process) the XML-file, should be no problem. And indeed, that way both stats have 100% sure the same teams & members. You/Bruno are hereby responsible for the XML containing the teams & members for the Gauntlet 2009! ;) (ok?)
We already have a system reading and processing the "standard Berkeley Exports". I will be using that data for the Gauntlet also. As I understand you guys are planing to use the per users xml files. That way there will be a (slight?) discrepancy in the presented stats. In my opinion, for the mentioned reasons, the best thing would be for you guys to use the same export also. But ultimately it is offcourse your choice (but please, please have a delay of several seconds between each XML-request to prevent a DoS-like event..)
I asume you will be updating the stats once a day around midnight (UTC)? (that way it will be comparable with the Berkeley exports..)
In other news :p (that's what you get when you have a thread with two items ;)
The donation challenge is at $ 671 (The only way is up, baby :D)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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You/Bruno are hereby responsible for the XML containing the teams & members for the Gauntlet 2009! ;) (ok?)
I can log the teams, user ID's and user names for this competition if you want. Anyone can maintain the list really, if your going to run this competition, you could write out the list using the same xml format yourself and anyone could use the list to produce stats, including any of the regular stats sites if they choose to get involved.
Its up to Bruno what method he chooses to get the info, i'm gently encouraging him to use the full export. But that is a big undertaking just to get those stats and read them. If he wants to use the rpc, it might be better than no stats and no competition.
John
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Do you have any idea how many people entered the last Gauntlet?
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Last year, About 350....ballpark figure.
We are trying to gear the script to handle between 50 and 5,000 users.
John. |
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The donation challenge is now at $ 788
We should be able to get it into four figures when this keeps up :D
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Great Job on the donations!
I'd challenge you to NOT include ANY zeros in your donation amount.
And not duplicate any numbers!
i.e. instead of $130.xx donate $134.56
i.e. instead of $35.00 donate $35.67
The small dollars and cents don't mean that much to the individual, but they sure will add up for SETI@home!
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SETI@home since 1999
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The Gauntlet-stats are taking form!
When I've done things right the subteam-credit and RAC field will fill with the next Berkeley-update. Then I need to fill the history data and.. well.. then I'm almost there :D
@Johnney
Have you guys got a link for your stats?
@Heflin
It's a nice idea, but I like bigger figures better ;)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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@Johnney
I read that the (cumulative) amount of data of the Berkeley-export may be a problem for using it. What if you strip all the crunchers from the data-file that do not compete in the Gauntlet? That way you will only need to retain a fraction of the export-data!
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Update: The donation challenge is now at $ 834 (€ 580)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Let's roll, the Gauntlet will be starting on September the 25th.
All info can be found on: http://www.seti.nl/content.php?c=gauntlet_2009&language=1
Inform your team, create a gauntlet subteam and enter it here: http://forum.seti.nl/showthread.php?t=15487 before September the 18th.
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In honer of 10 years SETI@HOME (and of our team ;) we're organizing the SETI@Netherlands 10th Anniversary Gauntlet together with PADDY'S IN SPACE.
The needed statistics are nearing its completion:
stats provided by SETI@Netherlands
stats provided by PADDY'S IN SPACE
(both stats will be reset on the start of the Gauntlet)
=====> You can sign up here <===== (signup closes on September the 18th)
By mentioning:
- Team name
- Country (if you're the founder)
- your user ID
When will the Gauntlet start?
25th of September 2009 (the 10 Anniversary day of S@NL)
=====> more info & rules <=====
Spread the word!
The more participating (sub)teams the more fun it will be, sign up, start a topic on your team-forum => spread the word!
Ow, PS: The SETI@Netherlands donation challenge is now at $ 887 :D (€ 625)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Eric Korpela (posted 3 Oct 2008 in Thread 'SETI@home Gauntlet 2008'):
If somebody or some team wants to host it, we'll advertise it on the front page.
Yes, please! ;)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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The SETI@Netherlands donation challenge is now at $ 920 (€ 650)
Two weeks to get to $ 1,000 ;), this seems quite feasible :D
.. and when we make that, let's go for the € 1,000 :D
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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And today we breached the $1000,-- barrier :-)
And we are extending the Gauntlet invitation to all teams that are interested to participate. No teams will be banned or refused.
So, click on the links provided by Eesger and sign up!
We hope to have the biggest Gauntlet yet :)
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Treasurer of team SETI@Netherlands
Follow the S@NL 10th Anniversary Gauntlet here |
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Indeed! And now let's see if we can make it a € 1,000,- for the donation challenge :D
As it stands now in the creation of the subteams 'our supercruncher' Aad will be "booted" to his own personal subteam and the S@NL subteam will have to be split up in at least two subteams... (otherwise there won't be much fun in holding this competition... when one already knows the outcome....)
But hey.. I am missing a subteam of SETI@USA.. there is some serious crunching power there!
SETI.Germany is now the second subteam in the amount of subteammembers.. but hey.. your team has much more crunch power than that!
And then I haven't even started about our team target L'Alliance Francophone! We're overheating our processors trying to get in third.. but you guys can at least try and beat us in the Gauntlet!
And, and........
(trying to motivate some teams here ;)
One of our teammembers had the great idea to show (and order) the subteam stats according to the amount of credits gained for the subteam.. that way there is the extra aspect for some friendly subteam competition as well!
FYI, the RAC's you see for the subteams is the sum of the RAC's of the subteam members (that way we can try and get as much teams as possible in the same kind of RAC.. making it a fun competition...).
All in all.. sign up with your subteam (click on the link next to your subteam)
Or ask for the creation of your subteam!
Let's make this the most fun Gauntlet ever!
PS: all amounts/scores etc you see in the stats now will off-course be reset when the Gauntlet starts..
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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I would be interested in participating in the "Gauntlet". Just two questions:
1. How do I apply and donate?
2. How to stop possible cheating? I was wondering how I would gain an unfair advantage and I considered "stacking up" dozens of almost-completed WUs (suspended at 99%) in the days leading up to the competition and releasing them when the Gauntlet begins.
I am sure there are others who have thought of different cheats, and I publish my thoughts in the hope that such cheats can be prevented to give everyone a level playing field.
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Hi!
First of all, thanx for your interrest, second.. your questions:
1. How do I apply and donate?
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All in all.. sign up with your subteam (click on the link next to your subteam)
Or ask for the creation of your subteam! (guest posts are now allowed)
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2. How to stop possible cheating?
In a Gauntlet like this one.. cheating is possible.. you suggested one.. but one can probably think of several others.. I guess the idea of this Gauntlet is a friendly competition.. The main idea is that the "real" teams create subteams.. when a subteam becomes too strong, they split into two/more subteams (like S@NL has done already).. when one/several subteams have no chance in winning they may combine forces..
But all in all.. yea, cheating is possible.. but where's the glory in that? I am seriously hoping my stats-programming (and that of the Paddy-team) will result in a fun gauntlet with a healthy competition (resulting in extra crunching being done for SETI@HOME ;).. none of the above will be gained with cheating.. and
Everlasting glory to the (honest) winning (sub)team of the 10th Anniversary Gauntlet!
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Mike.. I've been thinking some more about your cheating point..
What you say can be seen in the stats, if someone does that the production will slow down before the Gauntlet starts, and will rise when the Gauntlet begins. Since Our stats system has been up and running in the current config since march this year there is enough history to see such behaviour.. And when the "Gauntlet community" sees a user cheating, well as far as I'm concerned that person will bee booted from the Gauntlet and all the credits earned for the subteam will be removed. (I'll add some extra logging to have this data at hand in case off..)
It is offcource most welcome for crunchers to speed op a notch (or two) when the Gauntlet starts ;)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Eesger,
I know that you have used this thread for 2 reasons;
1. To tell people about the gauntlet competition
2. Your S@NL Donation thing
In this thread, this does create some confusion. Some people might be under the impression that teams have to donate money to compete in the gauntlet competition. Reading back over this thread, thats what it sounds like.
Maybe you guys should clarify this! If i am correct, your donation thing you have running is something different, its just a S@NL thing. Either way, even if you clarify how it works in a message, this thread still reads like a donation is required to enter the gauntlet. To be honest, i would have kept the two items in seperate messages, but that's just me.
John.
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Johnney, you are completely right.
The donation challenge is something internal of our team. We want to celebrate our anniversary by donating some money to the project we owe our existence to. This is NOT, I repeat, NOT linked to participating in the Gauntlet.
There is NO DONATION required to enter the Gauntlet!
And maybe it would have been better to have kept this in separate threads.
But hey, we didn't. Our bad. I guess we got a bit carried away :)
Sorry if this has created some confusion, guys!
This being said, you are all still very welcome to join us in our FREE anniversary Gauntlet!
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Treasurer of team SETI@Netherlands
Follow the S@NL 10th Anniversary Gauntlet here |
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The following teams are putting Gauntlet teams together right now:
- TeAm AnandTech
- SETI@Netherlands
- Planet 3DNow!
- Crunching Family
- Overclockers
- Dutch Power Cows
- PADDY'S IN SPACE
- SETI.Germany
- BOINC@Poland
- Erster Kontakt
- seti@thueringen
But there is room for more :)
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Treasurer of team SETI@Netherlands
Follow the S@NL 10th Anniversary Gauntlet here
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The Gauntlet now has 18 teams with a total of 129 crunchers, nice!
But I'm still missing SETI.USA, Francophone en KWSN subteams!? No interest there?
For a stats-test we are thinking of resetting the stats on August 31st, so that we (S@NL and PADDY's can do a final test on the stats code)
In other news ;)
The Dutch SETI community has built up a nice sum of money to donate to the SET@HOME project, we're at $ 1138 (€ 797,50)!
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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We at Anandtech are very excited to participate. Last gauntlet was fun and this should be even better!
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You & your team are offcource very welcome to the Gauntlet Bryan!
There are still about two weeks until the sign-up closes, so more teams are still very welcome!
PS: the S@NL donation challenge is now at $ 1,285 (€ 903,83, are we going to make it to the 'cool' € 1,000? ;)
PS2: I made a small mistake in the stats-reset, this should go right with the next update..
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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25 teams are now set up in the Gauntlet and everything is going quite nicely.
For some final testing our Gauntlet stats will be reset with the next update (I hope the stats of Paddy's will follow, for a final check also..)
Also, our "Dutch fund raising campaign" is almost at € 1,000 => € 973,83 (~ $ 1,409) !!
The signup closes at September 18th, so there is still time!
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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about 24 hours until the signup for the Gauntlet closes... so if you "want in", now is the time!
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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about 24 hours until the signup for the Gauntlet closes... so if you "want in", now is the time!
I would like to add myself in, but I just can't figure out the board. I tried to register, but I think it said certain e-mail addresses were disallowed (mine is at Yahoo). I also could not figure out how to post as a guest...
-Dave
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@ Dave
Hello team-mate, very easy.
Go here: [http://forum.seti.nl/showthread.php?t=15487]
Or last site [http://forum.seti.nl/showthread.php?t=15487&page=12] and then click to > <.
[it's like the german 'beantworten', english 'answer'.]
Then you get a site to write..
'Niet geregistreerd' - means not registered user.
'Verificatie van afbeelding' - SPAM security, write the letters you see.
'Onderwerp' - means subject.
'Bericht' - means post.
BTW. Nice that you support our team at the Gauntlet! :-)
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U aren't, or U aren't happy in Ur team? seti.international ! :-)
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[Extension of my upper post]
After this.. very important.. ;-)
'Reactie versturen' - for to post the message
'Voorbeeld van beticht' - means the preview before post
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Thanks, Sutaru!
Looks like there's a new last page, that's where my post is.
-Dave
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I hope that this post by Matt doesn't mean that this is a bad time to do a Gauntlet... I guess we'll see!
-Dave
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I've seen that also.. make make things more surprising... like one of Johan Cruyff's expressions, "elk nadeel heb z'n voordeel" (every disadvantage has its advantage ;)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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I hope that this post by Matt doesn't mean that this is a bad time to do a Gauntlet... I guess we'll see!
-Dave
Ohh well.. :-(
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U aren't, or U aren't happy in Ur team? seti.international ! :-) |
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370 crunchers have joined for the Gauntlet!
Some mergers can be expected in the Gauntlet teams (as log as they do not become obvious winners)
Counting down to September 25th!
PS: The S@NL-challenge is at € 1,000 !! :D ($ 1,470.50)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Two more "stats resets" to go, and away the Gauntlet goes!
FYI: a stats-reset will zero out the Gauntlet-stats and will add the totals of that day.
PS: The S@NL-challenge is at € 1,190.50 !! :D ($ 1.760)
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Two more "stats resets" to go, and away the Gauntlet goes!
FYI: a stats-reset will zero out the Gauntlet-stats and will add the totals of that day.
PS: The S@NL-challenge is at € 1,190.50 !! :D ($ 1.760)
W.O.W that is huge number ;>
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N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L |
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Two more "stats resets" to go, and away the Gauntlet goes!
FYI: a stats-reset will zero out the Gauntlet-stats and will add the totals of that day.
PS: The S@NL-challenge is at € 1,190.50 !! :D ($ 1.760)
W.O.W that is huge number ;>
Yea, and that in "recession time", good to see the crunchers of S@NL (and other 'fans') are this generous!
PS: I said earlier two more resets, but that's wrong.. after tonight one more, and we are a go!!!!!!
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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One more stats-reset to go, and the numbers are "the official Gauntlet scores"!!
It looks like Mr. Hankey is the big surprise now in the Gauntlet so far.. lett's see if other teams can surpass this!
And to conclude the S@NL donation challenge, "Stichting SETI@Netherlands" has donated $ 2.000 (+/- € 1.361) to the cause! A great complement to all who have donated, thank you very much in making this challenge a great success!!
The Gauntlet is afoot, lett's make this Gauntlet as great a success! :D
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Well Done to S@Nl for raising $2000 for S@H!! :-D
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due to the lack of Berkeley exports the last few days our Gauntlet stats didn't do what they supposed to. I'm working on a fix now..
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Got it all up and running again.. the user history-data is updating as I write this..
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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From BuddyWolly's post in the SETI@NL forum: [http://forum.seti.nl/showthread.php?p=506071#post506071]
This new Gauntlet will start at Friday the 25th of September 2009 at 00:00 hrs GMT+1 and will run for three weeks and end at Friday the 16th of October 2009 at 00:00 hr GMT+1.
To be exact, the running time will be from the first Berkeley stats export after Thursday September 24 th 20:00(GMT+1) till the first stats export after Thursday October 15th 20:00(GMT+1).
I missed something?
It's over now?
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U aren't, or U aren't happy in Ur team? seti.international ! :-)
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From BuddyWolly's post in the SETI@NL forum: [http://forum.seti.nl/showthread.php?p=506071#post506071]
This new Gauntlet will start at Friday the 25th of September 2009 at 00:00 hrs GMT+1 and will run for three weeks and end at Friday the 16th of October 2009 at 00:00 hr GMT+1.
To be exact, the running time will be from the first Berkeley stats export after Thursday September 24 th 20:00(GMT+1) till the first stats export after Thursday October 15th 20:00(GMT+1).
I missed something?
It's over now?
Yes Sutaru, it's all over now.
You can check out the results at: http://www.seti.nl/content.php?c=gauntlet_2009
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1.Q9650@4.05GHz,Rampage Formula,4Gb OCZ Blade,2x 9800GTX+
2.Q9650@4.05GHz,P5Q Deluxe,4Gb Kingston HyperX,9800GTX+
3.Q6600@3.2GHz,P5E-VM SE,4Gb Kingston HyperX,GTS 250 |
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I don't think the results are finished updating yet... it looks to me (though I don't understand the language) like it's about 27% updated right now.
23:47 Historie user : 26.3% gereed
-Dave
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Here: [http://www.seti.nl/boinc_team.php?action=showsubteams&gauntlet=1] ..
seti.international is at place #16.
Statistieken bijgewerkt - Statistics updated
16-10-2009 20:58:42
BTW. Maybe someone of the 'officially' can make a final overview?
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U aren't, or U aren't happy in Ur team? seti.international ! :-)
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Well, lady's and gentlemen Gauntlet crunchers, the final standings are:
1) [S.USA] South Park
2) [TA] TAS
3) OcUk[Spankers]
All the results can be found here!
The TOP Gauntlet crunchers were:
1) Mr. Hankey ([S.USA] South Park)
2) dajeepster ([TA] TAS)
3) maikj (Sicituradastra)
All the results can be found here!
Thanks all for competing, and until the next time!
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S@NL statsmaster | S@NL 10th Anniversary | S@NL stats | my stats |
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Yes big thanks to S@NL for all the hard work, plus the Paddy's of course :)
We (OcUk) had a great time and gave those pesky Anandtech peeps a run for their money :)
Maybe next time.
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--
Biffa
OcUk - The worlds finest spankmeisters |
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