If fire insurance were like health insurance.


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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 922895 - Posted: 1 Aug 2009, 5:09:44 UTC - in response to Message 922887.

Another point of view of the US involvement in WWII, despite what may be in your history books or seen in the John Wayne movies, This was for the most part an economic decision.

Actually even then they didn't want to become directly involved in the war. If it weren't for Pearl Harbor the US would never have entered WWII.
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Message 922937 - Posted: 1 Aug 2009, 12:03:58 UTC - in response to Message 922887.

I too would like to know who the US protected Canada from. We have always had good relations with most nations including the USSR. The only threat posed to Canadian sovereignty was that we were between the USSR and US. We only needed to make sure that war didn't break out between the two ideological extreme. A role that Canada has become very adept at.


Im not sure why, but there seems to be a great undercurrent of fear and apprehensiveness in the Unites States. Everyone is a terrorist, every country is out to attack them, that's if you listen to Fox news :P

They spend many times more on military expenditure then any other nation or group or nations in the world:



It is also a plurality of the entire government budget:



Its also a by product of a massive military industrial complex See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex

I have two problems with this:
1. "John", previously in this thread, touted just how great the market and capitalism is at *everything*, yet has no problem with the public health care system which the military runs and uses, or the role fire and police services etc.
2. One of the main arguments against public health care is that it would raise taxes on people earning over $1 million a year and "expand the government". Yet these people have no problem with the above pie charts... weird isnt it? If the military budget was lowered to something reasonable there would be more then enough money for public health care without raising taxes.

I feel very sorry for you yanks who have to put up with this kind of public knowledge level:

"At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.” The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program — but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, “wasn’t having any of it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/opinion/31krugman.html

Profile Robert Waite
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Message 922945 - Posted: 1 Aug 2009, 13:54:35 UTC - in response to Message 922869.



Are you serious? I do believe we pay for this energy!!! I would have expected a little more from a Canadian than threats. But then thats what we Americans get for graditude. It's ok, we will still protect you and all other people who can not defend themselves! Better than taking care of ourselves, why?, because it is the right thing to do.


You seemed to come out of the corporatist stance regarding healthcare very quickly after giving the concept of universal single payer just a small amount of thought. This tells me you have an open mind and can accept new ideas when they are presented.

Canada is a sovereign nation and we owe no gratitude to anyone. The idea that we are incapable of defending ourselves and must rely on our good buddies from the south is paternalistic and offensive.
You can discover the truth about the Canadian army's reputation during WWII if you look outside the rather one dimensional history books found in American schools.

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Message 922977 - Posted: 1 Aug 2009, 15:42:49 UTC - in response to Message 922871.


The only time Canada was ever invaded was by Americans in 1812, and we all know the outcome of that little adventure.


You might find out that many Americans don't know the outcome of that little adventure. Or at least have a different interpretation of the outcome.


A quick Google search will show several quotes from senior US elected members in 1812 stating that the purpose of the North American part of this global war was to "liberate" the remaining British colonies in North America, and thus allow them to join up with the US. I remember those quotes every time I go through Customs between the US and Canada, 180+ years later. I think I get searched more often because I'm grinning so much.
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Message 923063 - Posted: 1 Aug 2009, 23:58:24 UTC

Just posting to share this link to more interesting information on how much and how inefficiently the US spends on healthcare.
Paying More, Getting Less

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Message 923068 - Posted: 2 Aug 2009, 0:49:49 UTC

Perhaps take the wife out tonight...


Honey, you heard the nice man. Hint, hint, hint...

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Message 923089 - Posted: 2 Aug 2009, 2:34:22 UTC - in response to Message 922977.




A quick Google search will show several quotes from senior US elected members in 1812 stating that the purpose of the North American part of this global war was to "liberate" the remaining British colonies in North America, and thus allow them to join up with the US.


Ahhh Manifest Destiny

I wish the citizenry of the US would think of universal single payer healthcare as their manifest destiny.

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Message 923156 - Posted: 2 Aug 2009, 13:49:30 UTC - in response to Message 923109.
Last modified: 2 Aug 2009, 13:51:13 UTC


I see something i have never seen before: " there is parrallel line in the histogram??? ". what does it mean please? thank you very much for a answer.


You should have 3 lines in your BOINC SETI histogram:

1. a vertical broken/dotted line for dates.
2. a horizontal broken/dotted line for credit values.
3. a colored line that represents your credit history.

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Message 923194 - Posted: 2 Aug 2009, 17:25:19 UTC - in response to Message 923068.


Perhaps take the wife out tonight...


Honey, you heard the nice man. Hint, hint, hint...



. . . as in the Title's [Quote] "If fire insurance were like health insurance"

'. . . if a marriage's foundation was [Hint, hint, hnt . . .]

< back to the Subject @ hand ;)) ['funny', Angela]


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john
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Message 923370 - Posted: 3 Aug 2009, 16:17:15 UTC - in response to Message 922945.
Last modified: 3 Aug 2009, 16:30:56 UTC

Canada is a sovereign nation and we owe no gratitude to anyone.[quote]

Time for todays vocabulary lesson, the word "sovereign" has nothing to do with oweing graditude to anyone. It simply means independant of all others. Sovereign nations can and do owe graditude, I do believe we thanked the French immensely when they gave us the Statue of Liberty in 1886. I think you have this word confused with the word "jerk."



There has been no war that the Americans have protected the Canadians.
You have a very sad knowledge of Europe. There are hundreds of countries in europe... How many were defeated with the help of the USA? Three. Germany, Italy, and Austria-Hungary. The US has NEVER defeated anyone without help
[quote]

I have a very sad knowledge of Europe?? Where are these hundreds of countries? I come up with 45, (www.aneki.com/europe.html)I think you meant to say "How many were defeated BY the U.S.A." It is true Canadian troops joined in the effort in WW11 as did many other nations. Canadian troops gained a reputation of toughness and ferocity, the problem is there just were not enough of you to make much difference, one way or the other. The U.S. would have defeated the Germans and the Japanese with or without anyones help. The United Kingdom was of far greater assistance than any other country to us.

As far as protecting Canada goes, guess what, you do not actually have to be invaded to be destroyed nowadays, there are these things called I.C.B.M.s. There was also a little thing called the Cold War. I am sure you will tell me that Canada got along with the U.S.S.R. that none of the hundreds of missles were targeted your way, but I somehow doubt it. There was also something called the U.S. Nuclear Umbrella, While you might not appreciate our protection during those years, I think Europe would differ.

We hear on the news all the time in this country about anti-american sentiment, I just never thought there was so much of it in Canada. Come on guys, lighten up a little.I once went into a bar in Thunder Bay ONT. and asked for a Bud, an American beer, the bartender said we do not sell American beer here, funny,I can get a Canadian beer in any bar in America. I think our trade policys are more than fair towards Canada.

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Message 923481 - Posted: 3 Aug 2009, 23:28:48 UTC
Last modified: 3 Aug 2009, 23:30:16 UTC

Geez, dropped in to read up on the scathing health-care debate, and instead found war brewing between the U.S. and Canada.

As someone who grew up on the southern, reflective side of the world's longest one-way mirror*, I've learned that there is a whole 'nother world on the other side.

... and a whole 'nother vocabulary. They have postal codes, and Kraft Dinner, and loonies, and a whole bunch of stuff we don't have here.

They're also friendly, right down to patiently explaining that their "zip codes" are different than ours.

Most Canadians practically fall of their chairs when an American** asks for their postal code.

Where else can you use Canadian Tire Money*** to buy stuff but eBay.ca! (okay, and at Canadian Tire).

So, to my fellow Americans** I say "dudes, lighten up, eh!"

... and to those up north, keep your stick on the ice.

We now return you to the regularly scheduled health care argument, already in progress.

-- Ned

* The U.S.-Canadian Border

** Canada is on the North American Continent too.

*** The most stable currency in North America.
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Message 923486 - Posted: 3 Aug 2009, 23:48:42 UTC - in response to Message 923481.

You mean you don't have Kraft Dinner?!?!?!?

No wonder you are so confused about health care. Obviously, it's bad nutrition.

Nothing a little KD&W won't clear up. also, I recommend day old KD, right out of the fridge, smothered in ketchup. Everything will be much clearer then.
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Message 923489 - Posted: 3 Aug 2009, 23:57:11 UTC - in response to Message 923486.

You mean you don't have Kraft Dinner?!?!?!?

No wonder you are so confused about health care. Obviously, it's bad nutrition.

Nothing a little KD&W won't clear up. also, I recommend day old KD, right out of the fridge, smothered in ketchup. Everything will be much clearer then.

Nope, not really.

Kraft does make something called "Macaroni and Cheese" and it says "Kraft Dinner" in really small letters, but I don't think it's the same at all.

... and of course, most Americans** don't know the difference, what with the one-way mirror* thing and all.

-- Ned

* Footnotes appear two messages back in the thread.
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Message 923491 - Posted: 4 Aug 2009, 0:04:08 UTC - in response to Message 923486.

You mean you don't have Kraft Dinner?!?!?!?

No wonder you are so confused about health care. Obviously, it's bad nutrition.

Nothing a little KD&W won't clear up. also, I recommend day old KD, right out of the fridge, smothered in ketchup. Everything will be much clearer then.

Not only are we deprived, nutritionally, but we don't have anything to drink along with it.
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Message 923562 - Posted: 4 Aug 2009, 12:16:41 UTC - in response to Message 923489.


Kraft does make something called "Macaroni and Cheese" and it says "Kraft Dinner" in really small letters, but I don't think it's the same at all.


Probably not the same. I think in Canada they can't actually use the word "cheese" on KD, for legal reasons. It's a "cheese-like substance", or something like that.

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Message 923646 - Posted: 5 Aug 2009, 0:15:37 UTC - in response to Message 923562.
Last modified: 5 Aug 2009, 0:18:51 UTC


Kraft does make something called "Macaroni and Cheese" and it says "Kraft Dinner" in really small letters, but I don't think it's the same at all.


Probably not the same. I think in Canada they can't actually use the word "cheese" on KD, for legal reasons. It's a "cheese-like substance", or something like that.

... and if the advertising jingle is to be believed, "America spells cheese K-R-A-F-T" so there you go.

(alternately, maybe when they say "cheesiest" they mean something else)
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Message 929620 - Posted: 30 Aug 2009, 3:39:12 UTC

You all are a
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Message 933554 - Posted: 15 Sep 2009, 15:40:08 UTC

Are we on the wrong page…?


A vehicle at 15 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 800 gallons a year of gasoline.


A vehicle at 25 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 480 gallons a year.



So, the average "Cash for Clunkers" transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.


They claim 700,000 vehicles – so that's 224 million gallons / year.


That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.


5 million barrels of oil is about ¼ of one day's US consumption.


And, 5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $70/bbl.


So, we all contributed to spending $3 billion to save $350 million.


How good a deal was that ???



They'll probably do a great job with health care though!!

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Message 933562 - Posted: 15 Sep 2009, 15:54:31 UTC - in response to Message 933554.

I'm not a big fan of "Cash for Clunkers" but far as I can recall the purpose of "cash for clunkers" was not to save gasoline, but to stimulate the economy. So we spent $3G to stimulate more than $20G in direct economic activity and an estimated $40G or so in economic feedback. That's significantly more than the estimated $6 to $9G of economic activity that a $10 per capita tax break would have generated.

Any fuel savings are a side benefit. Personally I don't think the fuel economy requirements for the cars eligible for cash for clunkers were strict enough.

Eric
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Message 933791 - Posted: 16 Sep 2009, 18:14:00 UTC - in response to Message 933554.

Are we on the wrong page…?


A vehicle at 15 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 800 gallons a year of gasoline.


A vehicle at 25 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 480 gallons a year.



So, the average "Cash for Clunkers" transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.


They claim 700,000 vehicles – so that's 224 million gallons / year.


That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.


5 million barrels of oil is about ¼ of one day's US consumption.


And, 5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $70/bbl.


So, we all contributed to spending $3 billion to save $350 million.


How good a deal was that ???



They'll probably do a great job with health care though!!



You figures are correct if everybody who used the C4C program drives their car for one year and then trashes it.

I don't know about you, but I drive my car for quite a few years after I buy it. Cars are being driven for a lot more years now than they were in the past; frequently 10 years or more. So multiply that $350 million by the number of years the vehicle is expected to be in service and use THAT number instead.

You might also add in the expected increase in the cost of oil over that timeframe too.

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