Blitzed Again (Jul 02 2009)


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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 913889 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 5:06:37 UTC - in response to Message 913854.

... and if there isn't a good clean line-of-sight from the lab to the right building(s) on Campus, then RF isn't a good choice.

That would be the biggest impediment IMHO.

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Message 913905 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 5:58:06 UTC - in response to Message 913854.


No need for a trencher- go wireless.

Since connectivity on campus is provided by the IST department (the folks who brought you Cricket) they have to maintain it.

... and if there isn't a good clean line-of-sight from the lab to the right building(s) on Campus, then RF isn't a good choice.

Screw LOS between the Lab and a campus building, is there LOS between the LAB and their ISP's node? (Calren?) Remove campus entirely. Get them an OC-768 link!

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Message 913939 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 9:16:55 UTC

All the talks were great Matt.

There was a bit of a bad pickup from the microphone on the camera during your pipeline talk [popping and hissing] that didn't appear to be noticable, or at least as bad during the other talks. A good effort by everyone though.

I assume you meant there isn't the money for another set of hands for technical assistance to help you and Jeff. Or perhaps you meant someone to field the frequently asked setup questions.

I say this because you and Jeff seem to be the Tech support currently administring and kicking (when needed) the servers. And you do a very good job at it.

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Message 913949 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 11:10:12 UTC

Storm? What storm? The last few days I get (on Windows and Linux):
"Message from server: (Project has no jobs available)". I've got BOINC 6.6.36 under Windows 2000 and if I remember correctly 6.4.xyz under Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64.
I guessed there's allways something to compute until LGM have been found ;-)
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Message 913977 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 14:16:42 UTC - in response to Message 913949.

ugh... my computers are dry.
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Message 913978 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 14:27:56 UTC - in response to Message 913977.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2009, 14:28:32 UTC

ugh... my computers are dry.


That's OK, it's not a crime.

Just shut them down and turn them on again after a week or so.

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Message 913983 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 14:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 913978.

it's not the fact that the cpu is dry, it's the fact that the gpu's are dry..... 2 9400 gt's.... 32 sp each and they can run but probably won't finish a gpugrid wu.... cpu's are running, WCG,MW,ROSSETA, and a few others to keep them going.... i had those cpu do vtu@home but it(project leaders and servers have been unresponive as to why they were down for 2 weeks and i'm not crunching for them as i fear they will go down again....
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Message 913984 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 14:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 913983.

it's not the fact that the cpu is dry, it's the fact that the gpu's are dry..... 2 9400 gt's.... 32 sp each and they can run but probably won't finish a gpugrid wu.... cpu's are running, WCG,MW,ROSSETA, and a few others to keep them going.... i had those cpu do vtu@home but it(project leaders and servers have been unresponive as to why they were down for 2 weeks and i'm not crunching for them as i fear they will go down again....


Again, it's not a crime. Shut down the computers and turn them on again in the fall.

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Message 913988 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 14:47:09 UTC - in response to Message 913984.

i'll just go to the beta seti as their are 217,000 wu's waiting to be sent.....
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Message 914013 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 17:05:17 UTC - in response to Message 913905.


No need for a trencher- go wireless.

Since connectivity on campus is provided by the IST department (the folks who brought you Cricket) they have to maintain it.

... and if there isn't a good clean line-of-sight from the lab to the right building(s) on Campus, then RF isn't a good choice.

Screw LOS between the Lab and a campus building, is there LOS between the LAB and their ISP's node? (Calren?) Remove campus entirely. Get them an OC-768 link!

Range (and background noise) becomes an issue.

Not saying it isn't possible, just suggesting that it might cost more than the fiber.

... and being on campus means that they have to use what IST will support.
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Message 914029 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 18:03:26 UTC - in response to Message 913743.

I see what you mean, but how about a system in which download servers are distributed around various universities (just split data and download to clients), whilst the ONLY functions that the Berkeley servers do is to receive all uploaded completed tasks, do validation, and result storage/archiving. Wouldn't that ease the bandwidth/server pain? Of course, there may be logistical problems in that the raw data disks from Aricebo would need to be sent out the different participating universities, but maybe this happens anyway for some observing projects.

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Message 914048 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 19:33:19 UTC - in response to Message 914029.

I see what you mean, but how about a system in which download servers are distributed around various universities (just split data and download to clients), whilst the ONLY functions that the Berkeley servers do is to receive all uploaded completed tasks, do validation, and result storage/archiving. Wouldn't that ease the bandwidth/server pain? Of course, there may be logistical problems in that the raw data disks from Aricebo would need to be sent out the different participating universities, but maybe this happens anyway for some observing projects.


Its a good idea in theory, but there's still some problems with it.

There's still a cost issue there. SETI@Home leases space from the University, and has to work within the constraints set forth by the University's dictates, which include power requirements for both the servers and the air conditioning to cool the servers. Then there's the issue of staff wages (they do try to get paid for their work).

I mention this because if the plan is to get other universities involved, you are effectively doubling the financial strain on the project. Other scientists at other universities will have to purchase servers (or look for donations), lease space, pay for their power usage, pay for the connection to the internet, etc. And of course those scientists will want to get paid as well.

Its like a company with a poor business model that's extra-busy due to their popularity. Suggesting that the company branch out when there's no finances to do so will only make things worse. Unfortunate for SETI, they do not have a "business model" because they are not a business - they are a science project.
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Message 914077 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 20:58:49 UTC - in response to Message 914048.

Unfortunate for SETI, they do not have a "business model" because they are not a business - they are a science project.



actually that makes me happy that it's a science project b/c we have seen what happens to company's that run on a bussiness model and has a spot on wallstreet.......
Bankruptcy


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Message 914105 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 22:21:22 UTC - in response to Message 913784.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2009, 22:21:42 UTC

I think there is merit to the idea of sharing the SETI@Home database to data servers across the Internet and leveraging the distributed servers' bandwidth. P2P networks are very good at demonstrating the power of collective bandwidth for spreading information from a single source :)

The thing that makes P2P really work is that each file (each bootleg copy of the latest DVD) is uploaded once, and basically spreads: each downloader also becomes a new upload site.

That doesn't work for SETI because each result goes to ONE user.

Sure, you could come up with a "nano-splitter" that took one result and turned it into two (one for each wingman) but even that wouldn't help that much.

... and not at all for uploads.
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Message 914139 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 23:36:50 UTC - in response to Message 914105.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2009, 23:37:46 UTC

maybe, we should explore what drugdiscovery(A) and hydrogen(A) have done...... use 7zip to send files.... it makes 10 mb into 4-5 mb or less.

7zip works ok with boinc.... it will reduce the bandwidth a little. and may help with the congestion....

gamers also use it.... alot better at compressing than windows zip.
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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 914152 - Posted: 4 Jul 2009, 23:53:36 UTC - in response to Message 914139.

maybe, we should explore what drugdiscovery(A) and hydrogen(A) have done...... use 7zip to send files.... it makes 10 mb into 4-5 mb or less.

Compression as been suggested before. But given the nature of the data, it's not very compressible.
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Message 914156 - Posted: 5 Jul 2009, 0:28:59 UTC - in response to Message 914152.

maybe, we should explore what drugdiscovery(A) and hydrogen(A) have done...... use 7zip to send files.... it makes 10 mb into 4-5 mb or less.

Compression as been suggested before. But given the nature of the data, it's not very compressible.

It ought to compress fairly nicely, but there is a trade off with CPU time on the server to do the compression vs the transfer time to transfer the uncompressed bytes.
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Message 914159 - Posted: 5 Jul 2009, 0:48:23 UTC - in response to Message 914156.

maybe, we should explore what drugdiscovery(A) and hydrogen(A) have done...... use 7zip to send files.... it makes 10 mb into 4-5 mb or less.

Compression as been suggested before. But given the nature of the data, it's not very compressible.

It ought to compress fairly nicely, but there is a trade off with CPU time on the server to do the compression vs the transfer time to transfer the uncompressed bytes.

I'm not so sure about compression. My understanding was that random noise wouldn't compress very much at all as there are no patterns in it to exploit to compress. Now a WU with a signal might compress because of the pattern of the signal.

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Message 914163 - Posted: 5 Jul 2009, 1:20:02 UTC - in response to Message 914159.
Last modified: 5 Jul 2009, 1:20:40 UTC

perhaps it should be beta tested on the seti beta...... just a 1-2 week trial... it couldn't hurt.... may loose a little time if it doesn't pan out, but it would be an option explored...
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Message 914165 - Posted: 5 Jul 2009, 1:25:57 UTC - in response to Message 914159.

maybe, we should explore what drugdiscovery(A) and hydrogen(A) have done...... use 7zip to send files.... it makes 10 mb into 4-5 mb or less.

Compression as been suggested before. But given the nature of the data, it's not very compressible.

It ought to compress fairly nicely, but there is a trade off with CPU time on the server to do the compression vs the transfer time to transfer the uncompressed bytes.

I'm not so sure about compression. My understanding was that random noise wouldn't compress very much at all as there are no patterns in it to exploit to compress. Now a WU with a signal might compress because of the pattern of the signal.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it a text file that is sent each way?
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