Partly killed CPU? No magic smoke either... :-(


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Message 908824 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 17:25:26 UTC

Has anybody seen this one before?

I have a phenom 9850 that got too hot in my house. Running seti 24/7, ambient temps during day sent CPU over the 61c limit. Now the cpu won't handle any kind of load. I can browse interweb, do emails, etc, but not any kind of load on seti at all. A few minutes after I allow seti to run, the computer freezes, even with no overclock at all.

Damn! I've had to go back to my X2 6000+ for now. Boo!

Anybody else seen this kind of failure? Been running again for about half hour now again with no problems...

Now I know mobo can do Phenom II's... Which one do I get? (Insert evil laugh).

I know it won't catch you core i7 boys, but it should boost me up. I'll leave it running for rest of night, and then order new one (once i decide, of course!) for a saturday delivery.

regards, Gizbar.
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Message 908831 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 17:32:36 UTC - in response to Message 908824.
Last modified: 18 Jun 2009, 17:32:52 UTC

Has anybody seen this one before?

I have a phenom 9850 that got too hot in my house. Running seti 24/7, ambient temps during day sent CPU over the 61c limit. Now the cpu won't handle any kind of load. I can browse interweb, do emails, etc, but not any kind of load on seti at all. A few minutes after I allow seti to run, the computer freezes, even with no overclock at all.

Damn! I've had to go back to my X2 6000+ for now. Boo!

Anybody else seen this kind of failure? Been running again for about half hour now again with no problems...

Now I know mobo can do Phenom II's... Which one do I get? (Insert evil laugh).

I know it won't catch you core i7 boys, but it should boost me up. I'll leave it running for rest of night, and then order new one (once i decide, of course!) for a saturday delivery.

regards, Gizbar.

If my past experience is any indication....
The CPU is probably just fine. I would put my money on a mobo problem or the bios getting whacked when the rig went unstable due to the heat.
I have had this situation before, and it always went back to the mobo/bios.

Put the CPU in a new mobo and I would bet all is well.
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Message 908832 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 17:36:19 UTC
Last modified: 18 Jun 2009, 17:40:34 UTC


@ gizbar

Normally the CPU can't be burned.. before you reach the limit the PC will throttle.. MHz (Multi) and Vcore down..

(I don't know if Cool&Quiet need to enabled for this function (AMD))*

Maybe the mobo or RAM is damaged?


[* I disabled Cool&Quiet, so I disabled also the CPU overheat protection?]

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Message 908840 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 18:06:33 UTC
Last modified: 18 Jun 2009, 18:08:34 UTC

I'd check your mobo and thermal paste. I accidentally ran my Phenom II hot one time and got borky when I OCed it afterward. Eventually I found the Mobo was shot. Check the chip for any brown or dark spot that would indicate overheating. Its been my experience that even with the cool and quiet turned off the CPU temp will cause your PC to fault, shutdown, and possibly restart if you have that in the bios as a recovery from "any fault"

If you have this available, purchase a new mobo locally. put your CPU and HSF on it connect everything you'd normall connect to it. Run seti and see if it borks on you. If it does you found out the problem and if you are careful you can return the mobo with little effort.
If you don't want to be a jerk and do the mobo think take call your local PC shop and ask if they could check the CPU under a load for you. then all you have to do is bring in your CPU and HSF
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Message 908842 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 18:11:01 UTC - in response to Message 908832.

Hi guys!

@msattler - Unfortunately I don't have another mobo to try the cpu on. I reloaded bios defaults before putting old x2 6000+ back in then setting up to run again. I haven't tried any overclocking at all on the x2 yet, just seeing if the mobo is stable at stock. It seems to be so far, so I may well try putting 9850 back in, reloading defaults and seeing what happens. Thanks for your help!

regards, G.

@sutaru - I disabled 'cool & quiet' too. It's no use to me running seti. I only have one reasonably decent machine, the other is an XP1900+ that my kids use to go on the internet with. I've tried memtest and there were no failures there (I have Corsair XMS2 6400 DDR2 ram). As you can see from my reply to msattler, I have been running seti on old chip for at least an hour now with no stability problems so far. Mobo is an Asus M2N32SLI deluxe, which is a very stable and overclockable mobo. There's even an Nvidia guide to overclocking the nforce 590 chipset on it that I haven't even had a chance to look at yet. So, my hope is that it's all survived, and I can yet go back to my 9850. But if everything's ok, I might still plump for an Phenom II 940 or 955, lol! Thanks for your advice!

regards G.

You might both have just saved me some money! (Or not, if temptation too great and Mr plastic fantastic says YES!)

regards, Gizbar.

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Message 908861 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 18:42:11 UTC - in response to Message 908842.
Last modified: 18 Jun 2009, 18:43:15 UTC

If you have to get one get the 955 its already at 3.2Ghz. I would also recommend a large HSF to replace the average sized one that AMD provides. OCing is pretty easy and you should get well over 3.6Ghz W/o a problem. You may have to update your bios for the AM3 CPU if the bios is available for your mobo
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Message 908870 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 19:02:58 UTC

Gizbar, no matter what happens to your CPU or motherboard, I hope you got the hint from this thread that you should upgrade your HSF to something beefier. Also, enabling cool & quiet will not reduce your SETI performance because it's a dynamic speed feature.

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Message 908871 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 19:07:42 UTC

I did burn a CPU once long ago this way. I was overclocking and running Seti Classic. After a long time like this it became unstable. I had an identical MB and did that switch as well as RAM. It was the CPU. It wouldn't even run at factory spec after this damage. I had to underclock it to get it stable again.
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Message 908880 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 19:28:41 UTC - in response to Message 908861.

Hi skildude and DJ Starfox,

Thanks for the info. I'm using a silver based akasa thermal paste, that doesn't set like arctic silver 5. It's by no means the best, but is the best available locally. I will consider getting something better if I upgrade CPU. I'm already using the Xigmatec HDT-S1283 direct touch heatpipe cooler, so it is one of the better ones out there, it comes with 120mm fan. And thanks for the tip on 'Cool & Quiet'. I'm considering lapping the cooler (NOT THE CPU) to try to make better contact with the CPU. I'm not going to worry about a few acid etched characters on the CPU package, and it looks pretty flat already, even tho it's not perfect.

There are no obvious brown marks or scorching on the CPU package. It just seems to have gone from a stable 2.8Ghz overclock to not being stable at it's default 2.5Ghz as soon as a load is applied, i.e. Seti, Prime95.

Unfortunately, I have no stockist locally that stocks anything decent in the way of PC hardware, so if i have to go to new mobo, it will have to be online.

As for the 955, I know that some people are successfully running the 940 on this mobo, but I'm still trying to confirm the success of the 955 on it. I'm just about to reset to defaults again, and then try the 9850 again, as per msattlers suggestion, so I will be off for a bit. But thanks for all your replies.

regards, Gizbar.
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Message 908892 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 19:49:20 UTC - in response to Message 908880.

Well, it's now looking like the mobo... :-(

Literally seconds after I posted the last message, the computer froze on me again with the known good x2 6000+. The only other thing I can think of, is that Boinc + Seti are somehow borked, or the windows installation itself. But my thinking is that it is not windows, as it ran perfectly while making a backup of all my documents and settings and any other files I need to keep. So it leaves Boinc + seti, or the mobo, which is a shame as it has run solidly for 2 years. I will try to rma it as it is still under warranty, but it looks like I'll be needing a computer while it's away. So I'll have to see what my limited funds will stretch to... sigh.

regards, Gizbar.


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Message 908901 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 20:11:01 UTC

About two months ago I had the MB that ran my AP for Seti Beta Toast on me.. What I found was the MB - Voltage Regulaters that feed the CPU and MB were a bit crispy. So the Shutdowns that you are describing fit in that description.

The CPU/RAM is Fine... It back crunching AP in Beta.



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Message 908906 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 20:20:15 UTC - in response to Message 908892.

Gizbar,
I agree with Pappa. I've got the same thing going on with an old, old AMD Athlon 1200 system. Voltage drops under load. Motherboard power circuitry is fried. New mobo should fix things for you. RAM is still good too.

And your HSF is plenty acceptable. (For some reason, I thought you were running the AMD stock cooler or something.) Sounds like your case ventilation could use some work, however. Good luck finding a new mobo.

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Message 908914 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 20:36:04 UTC - in response to Message 908906.

Hi guys, thanks for the speedy replies. Bit annoyed if the consensus is that the power circuits are fried. The mobo has heat pipes over n/b, s/b, and mosfets.

Will rma board to asus under warranty, and hopefully get a replacement. Think my kids will get an upgrade if I can get rma sorted, got enough parts left here to finish new machine for them. Plus, new mobo will give me a second seti machine! Not quite a farm, more like a cottage garden, lol! Still stable with no load, I'm using it now to type this. And you're right about the ventilation :-( I normally run it with the case side off to keep temps down.

My other problem is the house itself. The upstairs gets real toasty warm in the summer, while downstairs stays cool. All the broadband, tv and stuff is all upstairs, and I can't put it downstairs as it's not my house, and they won't let me drill lots of holes to put cables thru. I'm considering upgrading to a wireless router to partly solve the problem, but I'm still working on what else I can do.

Once again, the knowledgeable people here help to solve my problems! Thanks to all!

regards, Gizbar.

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Message 908931 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 21:30:29 UTC

for a few dollars(quid) more you can get yourself a wireless router and wireless card for the PC. This would allow you to run your PC in a basement if you chose to heat it up as well.
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Message 908943 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 21:53:13 UTC - in response to Message 908931.

Well, I went and did it. Seeing as I've only got myself to blame when I can't afford to pay for it, I went and ordered a Phenom II 955, an Asus M4A79T Deluxe mobo (I still like Asus), 2 x 2Gb Corsair DDR3 ram, and (just for you Skildude, ;-)), a wireless router, LOL! Just within my budget (a new and freshly made up budget, as I hadn't planned to do any upgrading just yet), no core i7 for me yet (they'll be on some new and amazing cpu's and terminology by the time I pay for this lot!), and when I get the RMA from the deceased mobo, I can use the built in mobo wireless AP to access the internet thru the new router.

Am I mad? Yes, probably. But I won't regret it. I've just gotta decide whether to go for windows 7 on the updated machine. I'm a registered beta tester, and have downloaded the release candidate already, which I was testing intermittently on virtual pc. But I need to find out if my printers etc will work with it, as I will probably do the 64bit version if I upgrade. Decisions, decisions!

regards, Gizbar.
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Message 908965 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 23:13:30 UTC

Windows 7 highly recommended here!
It is a fantastic OS. Some software/hardware is still lacking support so I had to go back to XP on the main machine. Can't wait to get windows 7 back. The wife is running windows 7 on an athalon 2200+ and the thing is faster than when new. Been up for over a week without rebooting. It is also our media center pc. I don't think I have seen a crash in win 7 yet.
Most of all, where when a customer's machine has vista I get lost just trying to do the simplest thing. (Where did bloody microsoft hide XX kine)
I found 7 to be very intuitive from XP and nothing I can do in XP alludes me in 7. Be careful because more than one manufacturer I have found has windows 7 drivers for their product; but upon contact confess it isn't supported yet. I guess the driver structure is somehow different XP/vist/7.

OK, sorry back to regular programing..
Very sorry to hear about that. So was the MB after all? Or you still using board with x2? I can safetly saye I have a stack of (oc's went wrong on boinc) but never seen a damaged CPU; apart from physical damage (pins etc).
Best of luck getting the new system online. Sounds like your definatelly good spirit about the whole thing.

Good luck!
Keep us posted..
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Message 908986 - Posted: 18 Jun 2009, 23:50:14 UTC
Last modified: 18 Jun 2009, 23:52:54 UTC

This Host http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=3449541 has been running Win 7 since I downloaded and had time to install. It has sat idol for a couple of weeks during my move.

You have to look but as it was older MB I did get Win7 (64bit) drivers from the web site (Gigagbit). There were a few things that I had to install in the "Compatibilty Mode." For the most part I can run things that I could not on Vista.

So I may well convert all my workstation machines (my Vista Box first).
Regards

Edit: for the record I have given up on Asus. As I have replaced more Asus boards (including a DOA) than Gigabit.
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Message 909040 - Posted: 19 Jun 2009, 3:29:43 UTC - in response to Message 908943.

Well, I went and did it. Seeing as I've only got myself to blame when I can't afford to pay for it, I went and ordered a Phenom II 955, an Asus M4A79T Deluxe mobo (I still like Asus), 2 x 2Gb Corsair DDR3 ram, and (just for you Skildude, ;-)), a wireless router, LOL! Just within my budget (a new and freshly made up budget, as I hadn't planned to do any upgrading just yet), no core i7 for me yet (they'll be on some new and amazing cpu's and terminology by the time I pay for this lot!), and when I get the RMA from the deceased mobo, I can use the built in mobo wireless AP to access the internet thru the new router.

Am I mad? Yes, probably. But I won't regret it. I've just gotta decide whether to go for windows 7 on the updated machine. I'm a registered beta tester, and have downloaded the release candidate already, which I was testing intermittently on virtual pc. But I need to find out if my printers etc will work with it, as I will probably do the 64bit version if I upgrade. Decisions, decisions!

regards, Gizbar.

Congrats on your purchase the economy thanks you. And you'll be heating a downstairs room all too soon.
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Message 909054 - Posted: 19 Jun 2009, 4:47:34 UTC - in response to Message 909040.

Update....

I believe that something in the power circuit has been toasted, after some advice here. The mobo will post and run with both the x2 and the phenom, but will only idle. As soon as I try to do anything that puts a substantial load on the system, i.e. games, Prime95, Seti it will run from anything from a few minutes to a couple of hours before locking up and freezing solid. I'm listening to radio on the internet on it now as I type this just before I go to work. It's not quite right as the sound skips a little bit intermittently, which it never did before, but stable enough to browse internet, do emails etc...

Gotta go to work now, and seti is on pause 'til new machine is up and running.

regards, Gizbar.
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Message 909075 - Posted: 19 Jun 2009, 7:40:56 UTC - in response to Message 909054.

Update....

I believe that something in the power circuit has been toasted, after some advice here. The mobo will post and run with both the x2 and the phenom, but will only idle. As soon as I try to do anything that puts a substantial load on the system, i.e. games, Prime95, Seti it will run from anything from a few minutes to a couple of hours before locking up and freezing solid. I'm listening to radio on the internet on it now as I type this just before I go to work. It's not quite right as the sound skips a little bit intermittently, which it never did before, but stable enough to browse internet, do emails etc...

Gotta go to work now, and seti is on pause 'til new machine is up and running.

regards, Gizbar.


Another thing I've had happen which fits this bill is faulty caps on the motherboard. The telltale signs is usually the metal tops bulge and you might see some residue which has leaked out and then dried. Excess heat can help them on their way to destruction. If this is the problem and you feel up to the soldering job it can be quite cheap to fix.

A particularly good example Dell I had with a P4 and hyperthreading would run and then crash / lockup under load. It gradually got worse until it only worked with hyperthreading turned off. I almost condemned the CPU until I spotted the duff caps.

Googled for this image which gives you some idea.
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