Do you really think SETI(@home) will succeed?


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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 889197 - Posted: 28 Apr 2009, 15:25:43 UTC - in response to Message 889174.





It should also be remembered that, until more of the variables are nailed down with accurate numbers, the Drake equation is essentially meaningless. It is more theology than science or mathematics.

Used by both sides in the debate as proof that there is, or is not, intelligent life in our galaxy. People tend to decide what they want, then plug in values to make it so.

My (much more optimistic) running of the equations comes up with a number of about 5000 in our galaxy.




. . . quite the astute understanding kenz

as⋅tute -   /əˈstut, əˈstyut/ - Pronunciation [uh-stoot, uh-styoot]

–adjective

1. of keen penetration or discernment; sagacious: an astute analysis.

Related forms:

asâ‹…tuteâ‹…ly, adverb
asâ‹…tuteâ‹…ness, noun

Synonyms:

1. smart, quick, perceptive. 2. artful


< all-in-all - amazing observation of N=RL

. . . and, well spoken: regarding the actual question posed here in this thread




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Profile Rhe
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Message 889232 - Posted: 28 Apr 2009, 16:26:30 UTC - in response to Message 889197.

> i remember the day i joined - i felt then [back in 2000] as i do now

- that the Search would go Well beyond my Lifetime and also my children's children's childrens lifetime

and that the 'Science' would eventually find the truth regarding whether Life existed beyond this World . . .

and that it is true [in my convictions / beliefs] that 'We Are Not Alone' in the vastness of All space & time . . .

so, thereby this belief carries itself throughout time and i do have the resilience and desire to await that said truth

- whatever We shall find and whenever We shall find that said Truth . . .


Yup, what the Doc said above pretty much sums it up for me as well (except that I joined in 1999...).

The universe is vast, heck our little galaxy alone is pretty darn vast, as well. Expecting concrete answers/results arrving at this point, and expecting that to be the only "worthwhile fuel" to keep folks crunching after a mere 10 years, is extremely hopeful at best, and extremely foolhardy at worst.


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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 889593 - Posted: 29 Apr 2009, 20:36:49 UTC - in response to Message 888405.




In short, unless Seti@home expands to other telescopes, other parts of the sky, or other frequencies, it will eventually reach the point of diminishing returns...assuming it hasn't gotten to that point already.

Given that no real data analysis has been done it was already at that point from the very beginning.



. . . well now - let's see here: Jeff and I are continuing to spend our time doing what we can to get the NTPCkr rolling before the anniversary, as well as scraping a talk to present together about the general data pipeline (which we hope to end with the "unveiling" of the NTPCkr)

< quoting Matt above > and Matt Posts quite regularly regarding the NTPCkr ISSUE [btw] . . .

an ADDED Note to Rhe - Thanks my friend . . .


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Message 889624 - Posted: 29 Apr 2009, 22:39:10 UTC - in response to Message 889593.
Last modified: 29 Apr 2009, 22:39:25 UTC




In short, unless Seti@home expands to other telescopes, other parts of the sky, or other frequencies, it will eventually reach the point of diminishing returns...assuming it hasn't gotten to that point already.

Given that no real data analysis has been done it was already at that point from the very beginning.

. . . well now - let's see here: Jeff and I are continuing to spend our time doing what we can to get the NTPCkr rolling before the anniversary, as well as scraping a talk to present together about the general data pipeline (which we hope to end with the "unveiling" of the NTPCkr)

< quoting Matt above > and Matt Posts quite regularly regarding the NTPCkr ISSUE [btw] . . .

an ADDED Note to Rhe - Thanks my friend . . .

Thank you Richard for going out of your way to prove my point. "doing what we can to get the NTPCkr rolling before the anniversary". BEFORE the anniversary... meaning it hasn't happened yet. I don't know what I would do without you, Doc. :D
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Message 895295 - Posted: 16 May 2009, 5:24:49 UTC - in response to Message 889624.

I would presume that maybe a radio telescope needs to concentrate on strong hits for a long interval like the kepler telescope. See what could be observed over a long duration in a concentrated search area.
Then again the most intelligent life in the universe might be whales in another water world in space. Where their enviriment might not require them to leave their planets bonds. They might not have a requirement to leave their world or communicate with others than their own species. The stars are so vastly far apart that communication sent today would take 5 years one way to the nearest star.
It is a vast hope to be able to prove that yes an intelligent species is communicating. But the distance is so vast the signal would require vast amounts of energy. It would last for a short time as everything in space is moving so distance and the alignments would be easy to lose over a period of time. If a species is communicating we should recieve a carrier wave of some sort the guts of the message would be lost due to distances traveled. With a civilization that could communicate by radio burst communication would be nessasary to transmit the most information in the shortest time over a vast distance.
This is like finding a particular drop of water in the sea.just finding them some way is the hard part.

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Message 895307 - Posted: 16 May 2009, 6:17:35 UTC - in response to Message 895295.

I would presume that maybe a radio telescope needs to concentrate on strong hits for a long interval like the kepler telescope. See what could be observed over a long duration in a concentrated search area.
Then again the most intelligent life in the universe might be whales in another water world in space. Where their enviriment might not require them to leave their planets bonds. They might not have a requirement to leave their world or communicate with others than their own species. The stars are so vastly far apart that communication sent today would take 5 years one way to the nearest star.
It is a vast hope to be able to prove that yes an intelligent species is communicating. But the distance is so vast the signal would require vast amounts of energy. It would last for a short time as everything in space is moving so distance and the alignments would be easy to lose over a period of time. If a species is communicating we should recieve a carrier wave of some sort the guts of the message would be lost due to distances traveled. With a civilization that could communicate by radio burst communication would be nessasary to transmit the most information in the shortest time over a vast distance.
This is like finding a particular drop of water in the sea.just finding them some way is the hard part.


. . . i believe the Whales communicate 'instaneously' with one another - regardless of distance & across great divides [via the oceans]

> why can't WE?


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Message 897001 - Posted: 19 May 2009, 15:53:35 UTC - in response to Message 889174.
Last modified: 19 May 2009, 15:58:28 UTC

It should also be remembered that, until more of the variables are nailed down with accurate numbers, the Drake equation is essentially meaningless. It is more theology than science or mathematics.

Used by both sides in the debate as proof that there is, or is not, intelligent life in our galaxy. People tend to decide what they want, then plug in values to make it so.

My (much more optimistic) running of the equations comes up with a number of about 5000 in our galaxy.


Interesting point of view if I may chip in.

  • 1. What are the variables of the Drake Equation? Does it include a psychology factor?
  • 2. Assuming there is a technological civilization nearby that like us are also observing the skies. What sort of intelligent life would that be? Benign or hostile?
  • 3. If I remember correctly, the late Carl Sagan mentioned in one of the episodes of his Cosmos series, a signal was sent into interstellar space in the hope that some intelligent life would receive it.
  • 4. Was that a smart move? On what basis do we assume that extraterrestrial intelligence will be friendly?
  • 5. If our own attitudes are any guide, we have a very peculiar age old policy of, "Shoot first, talk later".
  • 6. Now, assuming that the nearest technologically advanced civilization is as intelligent as us, would not an attitude of, "Better to be safe than sorry" be a more prudent policy?
  • 7. If that is so then, they would not be announcing themselves as we did. Stupid, stupid, stupid humans.
  • 8. But like us, curiosity gets the best of them. So, what do they do?
  • 9. They listen, like we do.
  • 10. If we take this psychological factor into consideration, i.e. the majority of nearby technologically advanced civilization adopts a conservative stance. Would that not put the odds of finding extraterrestrial intelligence even more remote?
  • 11. In truth, we are really shooting for a needle in a haystack.
  • 12. If that isn't bad enough there is another issue working against us.
  • 13. We are still very much a primitive civilization. We have not conquer want and we have not achieve mutual respect among our own species, least of all to other species that live with us. We do untold damage to the environment we live in, wherever the human populates. In short, we are a very virulent parasite. It is a sad picture that among all living things on Earth, we humans as the most destructive living organism rule the world to destruction.
  • 14. Now, imagine this scenario. We have been transmitting live radio telecast since the last century. Though the signal is weak and would not travel far into interstellar distance but, what if some sufficiently sophisticated extraterrestrial intelligence, is able to pick up our radio signal and decipher it?
  • 15. I am quite sure they will not like our politics. Establishing contact with us will be hazardous to their well being.
  • 16. On the other hand, there may me extraterrestrial civilization who's attitude is worse than ours. Having destroyed much of their own world, they suddenly find our world still habitable. Would they not make effort to colonize us?
  • 17. I am sure some of you have thought about this and wondered whether it is still a good idea to broadcast live radio.
  • 18. In any case, SETI@home is still valid as we must know what is within our interstellar territory. Just as any territorial animal must constantly scan its territory for intruders and threats to its own safety.



Happy scanning and number crunching.
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Message 897248 - Posted: 20 May 2009, 14:52:39 UTC

I'd have to think that any other civilization would be much like ours. A bunch of misfits.

I'd really doubt an Romulan armada would be lurking in the darkness looking to invade. If ET has the ability to travel large distances in space it would be silly to assume they would waste their time invading an out of the way planet on revolving around an out of the way star. A planet that can barely get 3 space probes to the outskirts of its solar halo in under 30 years. I'd say we aren't much of a threat to ET if he/she/it decided it wanted to come here and conquer.

That being said I'd assume that if ET was out there it's most likely to explore. Being that we are a fairly violent species and ET is in all likelihood not going to have space cannons and more likely to have little desire to deal with a paranoid spcies as our own
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Message 897362 - Posted: 20 May 2009, 19:14:01 UTC - in response to Message 897248.

I'd have to think that any other civilization would be much like ours. A bunch of misfits.

Sounds like my kind of people. Oh wait...
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Message 897552 - Posted: 21 May 2009, 1:42:33 UTC - in response to Message 897248.

That being said I'd assume that if ET was out there it's most likely to explore. Being that we are a fairly violent species and ET is in all likelihood not going to have space cannons and more likely to have little desire to deal with a paranoid spcies as our own


How would we know what they have or don't have?

  • 1. Why do we think they need cannons for self defense?
  • 2. Perhaps, they have advanced technology on camouflage so, the species being watched do not detect alien presence in all frequencies of the EMW band as we know.
  • 3. The visitors may decide that one particular specie on Earth is dispensable and can be cleared just as we clear weeds with herbicide.
  • 4. Having rid the planet of its most menacing inhabitant, it would then be safe for occupation by the alien race.
  • 5. Outlandish if this may seem but it is one possible scenario.
  • 6. I do not know if being on the cautious side means being paranoid but I'd rather be cautious than be sorry.


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Message 897747 - Posted: 21 May 2009, 14:27:13 UTC - in response to Message 897362.

I'd have to think that any other civilization would be much like ours. A bunch of misfits.

Sounds like my kind of people. Oh wait...

meant Hooligans!!!
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Message 897750 - Posted: 21 May 2009, 14:36:06 UTC - in response to Message 897552.

That being said I'd assume that if ET was out there it's most likely to explore. Being that we are a fairly violent species and ET is in all likelihood not going to have space cannons and more likely to have little desire to deal with a paranoid spcies as our own


How would we know what they have or don't have?

  • 1. Why do we think they need cannons for self defense?
  • 2. Perhaps, they have advanced technology on camouflage so, the species being watched do not detect alien presence in all frequencies of the EMW band as we know.
  • 3. The visitors may decide that one particular specie on Earth is dispensable and can be cleared just as we clear weeds with herbicide.
  • 4. Having rid the planet of its most menacing inhabitant, it would then be safe for occupation by the alien race.
  • 5. Outlandish if this may seem but it is one possible scenario.
  • 6. I do not know if being on the cautious side means being paranoid but I'd rather be cautious than be sorry.


And a spacefaring race wouldn't have something to repel our best weapons? I'd assume a race that can travel among the stars would be more than able to defend itself. I dont believe that a spacefaring race would need to be overtly hostile. The just travelled light years of space. THat should be a show of power in itself.

2. see #1
3. Why even come here? There are apparently millions of habitable planets out there. why try and take over one thats got a race that will resist occupation. Better to land on a planet thats not technologically advanced and run that planet.
4. Why assume that an alien race would like to live here. Perhaps they rely on Ammonia for respiration. Earth would be a bad choice for them. However if they breathed smog we'd be in trouble.
5. skipping

6. It's a little late to be cautious. We've been beaming signals to space for 60+ years. If ET is within 60 light years of us He's seen all the I love Lucy he can stand. He may even wonder if our eyesight has evolved since we were sending greyscale signals then moved to color in 20+ years. If ET is listening to our radio He'd be awed that we dont have a common language.
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Message 897810 - Posted: 21 May 2009, 16:39:12 UTC

Quote from Calvin & Hobbes

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.


When I look at what's happening on this planet, there may be more truth to it than we'd like to hear about...
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Message 897846 - Posted: 21 May 2009, 19:10:23 UTC - in response to Message 897810.

Quote from Calvin & Hobbes

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.


When I look at what's happening on this planet, there may be more truth to it than we'd like to hear about...

Thought that that was George carlins
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Message 897862 - Posted: 21 May 2009, 20:03:07 UTC
Last modified: 21 May 2009, 20:04:56 UTC

If we find life on other planets, and lets say we build a space ship and visit the new planet to explore this new life, whats the first thing we are going to do?

Well for starters, if they are less intelligent than us, we will most likely eat them. We eat every other form of life on this planet, plants, other Intelligent animals, even spiders, bugs and creepy crawlies (Reality TV shows).

If they are more intelligent than us, we will probably eat them anyway! It would be nice to go to the local fish and chip shop and order a fresh Alien and chips!

John.
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Message 922910 - Posted: 1 Aug 2009, 7:31:27 UTC
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Well the bible indicates worlds instead saying world, it said worlds indicating right there other life is out there, I do question is there telescope that can search for what is invisible, apostles creed quotes invisible and visible, again the bible does indicate. Cameras do show ghost/spirits, the hubble might show something one day, but they should change in different iso's like cameras have ghosts appear on cameras. You just never know what may appear on the camera place at or on a suspected planet. Changing different rates sending transmissions might show something, maybe its not fast enough, or slow it. Its a theory, we have heard about the speed of light, who knows a blink of an eye, they are on the next frame on seti's data.
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Message 923823 - Posted: 5 Aug 2009, 19:31:59 UTC
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Seti is a noble project ,i would run it for the next million years if i could and if you analyse critically of all the projects it may be the most important and challenging to man kind. Its in our nature as humans or living organisms to explore our enviroment ,even appes do so and so do all other animals, too bad that match of mankind does not realize that. The challenge we face is what is out there in terms of intelligence and how do we detect them?. The question of how man came to roam the earth has not been fully answered , the question as to how exactly the origins of life started on these planet is also pending, despite so many theories that are out there non can create complex life forms from carbon from scratch. All possibilities beyond our imagination remain open and so does the fact that there is no doubt of intelligent life out there , the problem is using simple tools to detect, considering the vastness of space, but all journeys begin with the first step and so it is written that we have taken that first step for our selves and that of future generations. The route around the world was not discovered for hundreds of years , the answer to whether the world was flat or round didnt either come easy and so did the answer to if the earth was orbiting the sun. Why would anyone even expect to detect intelligent life in 10 years, for science as a whole is not for those, who do not put there hearts and minds to it, but for does who dedict their lives to what they feel should be provided and many have died before the ideas they believed were true were actually proven to be true. So today i want every one to ask himself are you a scientist, are you willing to cross oceans for an answer, spend sleepless nights for one? To search for intelligent life in the vastness of space would require only very strong hearted and willing individuals who are not asking for polling results ,but are prepared to go all they way how ever had or rough the going gets. Like the saying goes when the going gets tough , only the tough get going !
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Message 924553 - Posted: 8 Aug 2009, 8:38:44 UTC

I was wondering if i would not be a good idea for seti to piggy back and record signals via the nasa deepspace net work antennas ,after all they just have to install somekind of recievers that wouldnt interrfer with the work that nasa is doing.That would create a very big anntenna and increase the sensitivity by several thousand fold if properly synchronized with Arecibo.

NASA DEEP SPACE NETWORK STRUCTURE
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Message 924577 - Posted: 8 Aug 2009, 10:56:55 UTC

I don't think NASA would have anything to do with SETI, for political reasons. After all, it depends on public money, not private money, like the SETI institute and the Allen telescope. And Arecibo is doing a lot of astronomical research.
Tullio
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Message 936521 - Posted: 28 Sep 2009, 20:36:46 UTC
Last modified: 28 Sep 2009, 20:38:39 UTC

I think SETI could succeed if we are searching for intelligent life that is physically similar to us.

If they are designed completely different, I suspect we may not even be communicating in the right signal medium or looking for the appropriate indications - but how can we know if we have no comparisons to other extraterrestrial life.

We might even find another way in future of communicating through a medium or wave that can travel faster than we imagined - we may just not have detected it yet.

It's just a shame money and politics determines the advancement of science!

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