Teenager Shot by Vigilante


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Profile Jay Loveless
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Message 892180 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 3:11:08 UTC - in response to Message 892175.
Last modified: 7 May 2009, 3:46:52 UTC



Jay, if someone stands up and believes that they are fighting and defending themselves within a "cultural war", then aren't they fighting against the very society that is within that culture?


An honest answer to that requires some background information, so forgive me if the first part of my answer seems oblique. The society and the culture that I value is that which is founded on the Constitution. Further, as a twenty three year member of the US Navy, each time I enlisted or reenlisted, I took an oath to defend that Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. When I retired, I was not released from that oath. The Second Amendment, upon ratification, became part of that Constitution. That is the background. Now to the immediate answer. There is no "the society" in this country, but rather many different societies, which are increasingly fractured along social, economic, and ideological lines. I am in harmony with those societal elements which respect the Constitution and at war (hopefully to remain a war of words and ideas) with those elements which do not.

No one is standing outside watching and waiting to disarm the masses at a moment's notice.


No, they aren't, they are standing inside. Up until recently, they have been content with an incremental approach, but that seems to be changing.

Someone who abides by federal laws has no risk of ever having to resort to using their lawful firearms to "beat the forces of the Feds"...


The Supreme Court held over one hundred and twenty years ago that any law which contravenes the Constitution is null and of no force or effect, creating no obligation to obey and inuring no penalties for failure to do so. I have ONE speeding ticket in my 57 years of life and that is the worst law breaking I have ever done so far. I do believe there is a better than even chance that the current administration will, over the next four to eight years, attempt to pass and enforce some of the most draconian gun control laws ever considered within this country. I am oath-bound to oppose those efforts as inimical to the Constitution. As a free man, I am completely unwilling to allow myself to be disarmed, whether abruptly or incrementally. To quote both the ancient Greeks and the not-so-ancient Texians, "Molon Labe!" "Come and take it!"
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Jay L
"Dogs wear collars, wolves do not. I am a wolf. You can shoot me, trap me, poison me, or even set my brother the dog on me, but you cannot pat my damn head unless I say so. " -JWL '95"-

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Message 892234 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 7:43:45 UTC

meaningless words jay, you carry gun as long as someone decide he wants your gun, then he just take it.

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Message 892292 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 13:40:56 UTC - in response to Message 892234.

COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

According to some that post here:
This guy obviously was a vigalante, he had no right to take the guys life, he can't prove the guy was going to rape the women. He can't prove they planned to massecre all the guys. Georgia does not give the death penalty for rape.

He should have never tried to get the gun out of the backpack as the robbers would have just taken it from him.

The fuzzy logic, wishful thinking, circular logic, never-never land approach to things is astounding!




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Message 892315 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 14:27:33 UTC - in response to Message 892292.

COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

According to some that post here:
This guy obviously was a vigalante, he had no right to take the guys life, he can't prove the guy was going to rape the women. He can't prove they planned to massecre all the guys. Georgia does not give the death penalty for rape.

He should have never tried to get the gun out of the backpack as the robbers would have just taken it from him.

The fuzzy logic, wishful thinking, circular logic, never-never land approach to things is astounding!




And had the individuals that broke in only had a knife would it make a difference? Who has the circular logic here? Had we the balls to eliminate handguns from the public we wouldnt have to worry about people breaking in and holding people at gun point. If an individual tried that with a hunting rifle or a knife He'd have gotten laughed at. He'd have one shot/stab and he'd be tackled and likely beaten to within an inch of his life

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Profile Jay Loveless
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Message 892316 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 14:29:50 UTC - in response to Message 892234.

meaningless words jay, you carry gun as long as someone decide he wants your gun, then he just take it.


That's been tried. I am still here and still armed, the thief is neither.
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"Dogs wear collars, wolves do not. I am a wolf. You can shoot me, trap me, poison me, or even set my brother the dog on me, but you cannot pat my damn head unless I say so. " -JWL '95"-

Profile Jay Loveless
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Message 892352 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 15:47:28 UTC - in response to Message 892315.

And had the individuals that broke in only had a knife would it make a difference? Who has the circular logic here? Had we the balls to eliminate handguns from the public we wouldnt have to worry about people breaking in and holding people at gun point. If an individual tried that with a hunting rifle or a knife He'd have gotten laughed at. He'd have one shot/stab and he'd be tackled and likely beaten to within an inch of his life


The problem is, you are dreaming of never-never land. People who want to rape rob and kill do not obey gun control laws. Even if you eliminated all commercially produced handguns world wide - even from the police and the military, in a very short time criminals would be producing them and ammunition in garage shops all over the world, just as they do now in countries where they are banned. Then you have armed criminals and an unarmed populace, a condition only a violent criminal could love.
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"Dogs wear collars, wolves do not. I am a wolf. You can shoot me, trap me, poison me, or even set my brother the dog on me, but you cannot pat my damn head unless I say so. " -JWL '95"-

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Message 892355 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 15:59:08 UTC - in response to Message 892315.


And had the individuals that broke in only had a knife would it make a difference? Who has the circular logic here? Had we the balls to eliminate handguns from the public we wouldnt have to worry about people breaking in and holding people at gun point. If an individual tried that with a hunting rifle or a knife He'd have gotten laughed at. He'd have one shot/stab and he'd be tackled and likely beaten to within an inch of his life


Actually, it probably wouldn't have made a difference. I think you overestimate the willingness of the Sheeple to defend themselves. Note that on September 11th, passengers on only one out of four planes offered any <known> resistance to small groups of men (4 to 5 men vs a minimum of 33 passengers) armed only with box cutters. Nobody appeared to be laughing at them.

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Message 892371 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 16:45:34 UTC - in response to Message 892355.


And had the individuals that broke in only had a knife would it make a difference? Who has the circular logic here? Had we the balls to eliminate handguns from the public we wouldnt have to worry about people breaking in and holding people at gun point. If an individual tried that with a hunting rifle or a knife He'd have gotten laughed at. He'd have one shot/stab and he'd be tackled and likely beaten to within an inch of his life


Actually, it probably wouldn't have made a difference. I think you overestimate the willingness of the Sheeple to defend themselves. Note that on September 11th, passengers on only one out of four planes offered any <known> resistance to small groups of men (4 to 5 men vs a minimum of 33 passengers) armed only with box cutters. Nobody appeared to be laughing at them.

They have been told over and over again to lie down and be raped by those who have a vested interest in having victims they can whip into crowds to do their bidding.
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Message 892392 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 18:32:29 UTC

Jay
You say you took an oath to defend the constitution.

If gun control is brought forward by means of a constitutional amendment that eliminates the 2nd amendment and also satisfies the Supreme Court, would you hand over your weapons?

Or would you bury them somewhere close by?

Profile Jay Loveless
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Message 892415 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 19:42:23 UTC - in response to Message 892392.

Jay
You say you took an oath to defend the constitution.

If gun control is brought forward by means of a constitutional amendment that eliminates the 2nd amendment and also satisfies the Supreme Court, would you hand over your weapons?

Or would you bury them somewhere close by?


I would have to consider very carefully leaving the country. I seriously doubt that such an amendment would ever be ratified, given the long, drawn out process, as well as the fact that several states have vowed (by legislative resolution passed by the States and signed by the governors) to secede in such an event. I am not suggesting that it would come to that, merely that since three fourths of the states would have to ratify such a change, it ain't very likely.
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"Dogs wear collars, wolves do not. I am a wolf. You can shoot me, trap me, poison me, or even set my brother the dog on me, but you cannot pat my damn head unless I say so. " -JWL '95"-

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Message 892439 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 21:22:46 UTC

are we just about done here. I really don't see this being productive anymore.
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Message 892451 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 21:57:06 UTC - in response to Message 892439.

are we just about done here. I really don't see this being productive anymore.

I agree. Lock it.


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Message 892456 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 22:07:54 UTC

News Update

He has pled Not Guilty to 1st Degree Manslaughter
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Message 892458 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 22:12:27 UTC - in response to Message 892456.

Thank you for the update, Blurf. Just a suggestion...perhaps move the update to a newly started thread instead of here?
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Message 892460 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 22:18:52 UTC

"And had the individuals that broke in only had a knife would it make a difference? Who has the circular logic here? Had we the balls to eliminate handguns from the public we wouldnt have to worry about people breaking in and holding people at gun point. If an individual tried that with a hunting rifle or a knife He'd have gotten laughed at. He'd have one shot/stab and he'd be tackled and likely beaten to within an inch of his life"

"14,000 knife victims a year"

By Jonathan Owen

Friends of Shakilus Townsend gather yesterday at the spot where he died

Knife violence in Britain is far worse than official statistics suggest, with almost 14,000 people taken to hospital for injuries caused by knives and other sharp weapons last year.

According to the latest Department of Health statistics, an average of 38 victims of knife wounds are admitted to accident and emergency departments across the country every day.

An analysis of hospital admissions data for England and Wales by the IoS revealed that assaults and injuries from knives and sharp implements, together with sword and dagger injuries, resulted in 12,340 people being admitted last year – 446 of whom were no older than 14. This is an increase of 19 per cent on the 10,372 admissions five years ago. The latest figures from Northern Ireland and Scotland bring the total number of victims in Britain to 13,795 each year.

I guess these folks shouldn't have laughed when someone pulled a knife.

P.S - I wouldn't laugh or try to tackle someone with a rifle either without some consideration first.

And if that wasn't enough -

The Commonwealth Island of St. Lucia is considering outlawing bottled soft drinks "there have been numerous assaults and two murders using broken bottles"

And try googling these -

"Victim thrown from window" - outlaw windows?
"Victim beaten to death" - outlaw hands?
"Victim killed with vehicle" - outlaw automobiles?
"victim killed with metal chair" - outlaw furniture?
"Victim killed with ball bat" - outlaw baseball etc.

It might be nice if you are a potential victim to have something to deter this happening. Maybe someone should invent some tool for the victims to use. Just a thought.





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Message 892473 - Posted: 7 May 2009, 22:54:12 UTC

Until mankind evolves to a higher level with respect for all life, this will be an endless debate.

Ever since the caveman days when the spear was first made, man has always found ways for bigger & better weapons.

We have 2 choices, either try for that higher level or wipe ourselves out.
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Message 892521 - Posted: 8 May 2009, 0:40:04 UTC - in response to Message 892456.

News Update

He has pled Not Guilty to 1st Degree Manslaughter

Thanks for the update. Looks like the next item isn't going to be until June 26.


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Message 892670 - Posted: 8 May 2009, 12:02:25 UTC - in response to Message 892473.

Until mankind evolves to a higher level with respect for all life, this will be an endless debate.

Ever since the caveman days when the spear was first made, man has always found ways for bigger & better weapons.

Precisely the point of my first post in this thread.


We have 2 choices, either try for that higher level or wipe ourselves out.


Not looking too good, but we can always hope.

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