Alcohol is legal
Has your doctor gulped a few quick shots before operating on you?
C'mon people, the world won't slip into reefer madness if the stuff is decriminalized.

Get off the fear wagon.

Alcohol is legal
Has your doctor gulped a few quick shots before operating on you?
C'mon people, the world won't slip into reefer madness if the stuff is decriminalized.

Get off the fear wagon.

@Robert, well said. Fear breeds more contempt, anger, and violence than pot ever would. ;)

@Tom, I didn't expect you to write the next War and Peace here in answer to my posting. LOL Picked out a few of your points that I wanted to address. Do with them what you will--have at it. (I kinda wrote my own War and Peace here, heh.)

You just made me feel safer - a surgeon called in on his day off to perform my emergency surgery, A military member handling nuclear weapons or with a loaded weapon called out for an emergency. A politician/law enforcement offical willing to break the laws they have sworn to uphold. I feel much better now.

Not all surgeons and military are always on-call 24/7, hon. They adjust accordingly.
Do you ever jaywalk? Drive a few miles over or under the speed limit? LE and politicians are people too--no more holier than you are, my friend. IMHO, both of those "crimes" I just mentioned are much more dangerous than smoking a bit of weed on occasion. You asked if they were "better at their profession" when there were high...I don't know, they didn't use it while practicing their profession! That's the point here. :P

Regarding your "what qualifies as a loser, etc" comment, I'll refer you back to what you wrote:

"That they live in poverty,
that they can't hold down a job,
that they have and continue to screw their kids out of the basics that anyone would want for their children.
Doesn't matter. Being able to "party", is more important."

The above definitely sets off my "loser meter", but hey, that's just me. If someone is like that because they want to smoke pot, my guess is that they would be like that even without pot, was my point. Attempting to use smoking as nothing more than an excuse to start and continue the above behavior is pathetic, at best.

The proposal is not to legalize it for one person who has "personal responsibility" - the proposal is to make it available for 200 million folks for whom you have no idea as to what "personal responibility" means.

Personally, I'm hoping that there are MANY more people than just ONE in the USA that understand and practice personal responsibility. Next the government will ban Starbucks and Twinkies because of the fear that not enough people will have the personal responsibility to avoid becoming overweight...or roller coasters, skiing and inline skating because, well--they would "just be looking out for all of those people that don't know any better than to protect themselves, don't ya know".

As to the medical "benefits" - you have any recognized, peer reviewed studies to back that up? Or is it more of my cousin's friend tried it and his acne went away? You have a medical condition that is fixed after 10 days of pot smoking to tell us about?

The WWW or local University does indeed have peer-reviewed articles that include such information--feel free to find them, I did.

I won't attempt to go into the various reasons pot helped my father and mother be able to live better before they passed on from illnesses. I won't talk at length here about friends I've personally witnessed who's serious illnesses were eased by smoking. What I will share with you is this:

I'm a cancer survivor, hon--given a 3% chance to live. I was one of the first people on the West Coast of the USA many, many years ago that was legally allowed use of medical marijuana. I was literally dying from the chemo treatments and their side effects (as well as the cancer...) until I started smoking. Two and 1/2 years of chemo that I firmly believed I never would have survived without the aid of pot. That's enough proof for ME...even if not for you.

I still get the occasional pimple, however...so, in spite of your wondering about how pot "cures acne" I'd be of no help to you there. LOL

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Team SETI.USA Forums
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~~Carl Sagan

Perhaps we all need a little perspective.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/thailand0704/4.htm
Seems to have worked, drug busts went down over 70% in two years.
http://reallifethailand.blogspot.com/2007/10/drugs-in-thailand.html

There are two ways to stop the drug problem. One, get rid of the demand. Two, take the profit out of it.

I don't think Western Society has hit bottom hard enough to stomach the first option. After all we still allow tobacco and its users know it kills them. We allow alcohol and the massive number of people murdered by drunk driving.

That leaves option two. Go into the chemist and hand over your ID document and buy whatever you want. Of course your ID document comes back indelibly stamped drug addict and a record goes into the computer. Now if you get pulled over in a car no matter if it is for a burned out signal, expired registration or suspicion of drunk driving, you give blood to prove you weren't DWI. Want a job, hand over that ID, think you'll get it? You won't be getting welfare, your name is in the computer. You won't have a professional license either. Commit a crime, no plea bargain for you. Oh, female and child bearing age, I see Norplant in your future. But you can buy all the safe pure drugs you want.

Of course if you hand the chemist a prescription, well you get that. And the professional boards need to use computer tools to detect doctors who take bribes to write false prescriptions.

Now as to the people who use drugs. Today we know what they are. They are criminals. No ifs ands or buts. That class of people has always been in society and always will be in society. We as a society enable drug use by trying to call it some disease or some such. It allows the person who uses drugs to use the label as a crutch to not admit their own failure of self control.

Society needs to stop enabling those to who Darwin's survival of the fit should die off to continue to pollute the gene pool. Let them expire before they pass on their bad traits. Otherwise we grow weaker and when ET comes, we won't have a chance. :)

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Perhaps we all need a little perspective.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/thailand0704/4.htm
Seems to have worked, drug busts went down over 70% in two years.
http://reallifethailand.blogspot.com/2007/10/drugs-in-thailand.html

Interesting articles, Gary, but they focus on drugs such as meth, heroine, etc. Nowhere did I even see a mention of marijuana...

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Team SETI.USA Forums
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~~Carl Sagan

Medical use - does the pot smoking stop when the medical problem is "cured"? No the advocation of pot has seemed always best for chronic problems that have to be treated forever.

No one of the advocates here for legalized pot has addressed the problem I have with it.

There are those that have ruined their life with it. They can't just smoke a joint on Friday night. How many of these folks are in the general population I can't say. I don't know. How many lives is it okay to ruin so you can sit in a corner and admire your navel for an hour of two?

Is it worth the misery that it brings? How many ruined lives are worth it?

I am deadly serious. I know first hand the misery it brings. I also know first hand what someone under the influence of pot looks, sounds, and acts like.

I have not seen it "improve" anyone. Not one. They either sit there and act silly, or they sit there and get totally withdrawn.

Now if you are one of the ones here that says it doesn't hurt you, I'll take your word for it. I don't know if you have ruined your marrige with it. I don't know that people run the other way when they see you coming. I do know that of the ones that do screw up their lives with it deny it is a problem.

To be around someone that is high, is no more pleasant to be around as someone drunk.

I am not "fearful". I am angry. I am no product of goverment "brainwashing". I know this stuff firsthand. I do not get my opinion from a book, I get it from being constantly exposed to the misery and hopelessness of it.

Peddle the lies somewhere else. I know better.

My posts are to educate the ones that don't use it but consider legalization an option. My intent is to show the propoganda is what it is.

Am I so stupid to not know that people such as doctors, lawyers, policeman etc. use it. No I am perfectly aware that they do, drug and alcohol abuse is insidious and wide spread. Does that make it better? Are we improved by it?

Does the fact that an elected official uses pot make you think better of him? A cop? A doctor? An airline pilot? How are they improved by it? How are their lives improved by it? What benefit is it to the rest of us?

If your life is so miserable you need a joint to face it, you need a new career, you need counseling, you need a hobby, you need help - you don't need a joint. Because when the effects wear off, you still got the miserable life plus you are out of the cash you used to buy it with.

Pot smokers make me miserable on a weekly basis, they cost me money, they steal time out of my life. They also cost you money, they get food stamps, they get medicaid. Their children are a mess, their pitiful, they are drug addicted.

They are not "cute". They are not "funny". They are not "harmless". They are not "nonviolent".

"Not all surgeons and military are always on-call 24/7, hon. They adjust accordingly.
Do you ever jaywalk? Drive a few miles over or under the speed limit? LE and politicians are people too--no more holier than you are, my friend"

I spent 20 years in the military "hon" we were always on call, even when on leave. I have known hundreds of doctors, still do, I am a medical administrator by profession and education. I would never tell you to go to a Doctor that abuses any drug including alcohol, and I would be more than happy to have his license pulled. Random drug testing was conducted every thirty days in all units of the Navy when I was in. It included all officers and enlisted personel, no exceptions. I truly hope they did not stop, because military people are always "on call".

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

"I've known surgeons, lawyers, military members, scientists, politicians, and yes even law enforcement that have smoked pot--all top members in their fields"





i believe you meant, they used to be, then they just use.

“Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of the mind." ~~Robert Green Ingersoll

Peace, all.

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Team SETI.USA Forums
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~~Carl Sagan

They do me wrong, and I will not endure it:
Who are they that complain unto the king,
That I, forsooth, am stern, and love them not?
By holy Paul, they love his grace but lightly
That fill his ears with such dissentious rumours.
Because I cannot flatter and speak fair,
Smile in men's faces, smooth, deceive and cog,
Duck with French nods and apish courtesy,
I must be held a rancorous enemy.
Cannot a plain man live and think no harm,
But thus his simple truth must be abused
By silken, sly, insinuating Jacks?

King Richard III, Act I, scene III, William Shakespere

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

That's certainly more poetic than your post in the other thread stating you'd bludgeon someone to death or burn down their shop while they're still in it if they were selling cannabis legally if the prohibition were lifted.

You seem to have greater problems to deal with than decriminalization of cannabis.

You can push people only so far Robert. History and headlines reflect that fact.

"Well, you can't force the idle rich into getting a job down at the carwash or the corner 7/11. All that does is take jobs away from those who really need them.
Personally, I'd like to see them picking up dog poop in the parks. LOL"

What if someone violently opposes being forced to pick up dog poop for your personal amusement?

If someone decided to take 90% of your money for political reasons, how quiet would you be? Would you meekly hand it over? What if the same politician gave out your name for public derision? If you suddenly were receiving death threats against you and your family because someone was going to get a few votes out of it?

What if a politician had you fired? Closed the business you work for? Finacially ruined you? No hard feelings? Thats life?

I guess one could always smoke a joint anc chill out. But then what would they buy it with?

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

You can push people only so far Robert. History and headlines reflect that fact.

"Well, you can't force the idle rich into getting a job down at the carwash or the corner 7/11. All that does is take jobs away from those who really need them.
Personally, I'd like to see them picking up dog poop in the parks. LOL"

What if someone violently opposes being forced to pick up dog poop for your personal amusement?

If someone decided to take 90% of your money for political reasons, how quiet would you be? Would you meekly hand it over? What if the same politician gave out your name for public derision? If you suddenly were receiving death threats against you and your family because someone was going to get a few votes out of it?

What if a politician had you fired? Closed the business you work for? Finacially ruined you? No hard feelings? Thats life?

I guess one could always smoke a joint anc chill out. But then what would they buy it with?

There's a lot of "what if's" in this response.

What if the prohibition on cannabis was removed and the world kept turning?
What if everyone just kept going on with their lives and less kids were thrown in prison?

I don't know what it is that makes you so angry, besides the deadbeats in your family, but all of the other "what if" stuff you've posted seem a little over the top.

The only death threats I've seen have been in your posts.

Here's a bit of advice that may help you get through the day.
Live your life and let others live their's.

If someone wants to twist up a fat one it's none of your business. period.

"Marijuana addiction is a phenomenon experienced by more than 150,000 individuals each year who enter treatment for their proclaimed addiction to marijuana. Marijuana addiction is characterized as compulsive, often uncontrollable marijuana craving, seeking, and use, even when the individual knows that marijuana use is not in his best interest. Marijuana addiction could be defined as chronically making the firm decision not to use marijuana followed shortly by a relapse due to experiencing overwhelming compulsive urges to use marijuana despite the firm decision not to. This contradiction is characteristic of an addiction problem." http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/index.htm

Cost of treatment $10,000 to 40,000 per person. Generally not covered by insurance. Generally paid for by "family members".

"Here's a bit of advice that may help you get through the day.
Live your life and let others live their's.

If someone wants to twist up a fat one it's none of your business. period."

Unless the someone is my brother, niece, nephew? That they are on the phone wanting to borrow some money? That they are knocking on my door, needing shoes? My niece did that, someone stole hers while sleeping.

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

I don't know what it is that makes you so angry, besides the deadbeats in your family, but all of the other "what if" stuff you've posted seem a little over the top.

I'll simply quote myself and stand by my statements.

I don't know what it is that makes you so angry, besides the deadbeats in your family, but all of the other "what if" stuff you've posted seem a little over the top.

I'll simply quote myself and stand by my statements.

Perhaps Tom would be angry if he learned how many innocent people are harmed by the black market perpetuated by our war on drugs. The cost of the war on drugs is many times greater than the social cost of deadbead drug addicts.

It's also a matter of control. Right now no one has control over the drug market because it is a black market. This lets nearly everyone in the country have access to drugs. Is this what we want? With decriminalization the government can regulate, tax and oversee the sale of drugs thereby limiting the sale of recreational drugs to minors and thoese forbidden to puchase by law (to be determened).

So you are saying that legalized alcohol is kept out of the hands of minors? Are you saying that legal prescription drugs are only used by those that have prescriptions? I wish that was a statement of fact. But sadly it isn't.

"I don't know what it is that makes you so angry, besides the deadbeats in your family, but all of the other "what if" stuff you've posted seem a little over the top."

Robert the fact that the deadbeats in my family that use pot causes me intense grief. Your proposal is to make this available to more people - not less.

I am militant about it because I don't want your family to have pothead deadbeats in it also. Or any other family, for that matter. I just don't see how flooding the country with it at every convieniance store is going to make it better, or cut down on the number of "deadbeats".

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

So you are saying that legalized alcohol is kept out of the hands of minors? Are you saying that legal prescription drugs are only used by those that have prescriptions? I wish that was a statement of fact. But sadly it isn't.

I said it would limit the availability. There are always ways to get around the law. As the laws stand, it is easier for minors to get illegal drugs than it is to get alcohol. Is this a good thing? This is because drugs are sold everywhere by people who do not care who they sell to. Alcohol can only be sold with a license and can not be sold to minors.

With decriminalization the government can regulate, tax and oversee the sale of drugs thereby limiting the sale of recreational drugs to minors and thoese forbidden to puchase by law (to be determened).

Alcohol is legal
Has your doctor gulped a few quick shots before operating on you?
C'mon people, the world won't slip into reefer madness if the stuff is decriminalized.

Get off the fear wagon.

I knew of a Doctor that was known for doing so. Anybody that knew went to the other doctor in town.

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BOINC WIKI

47000 people died last year because of my right to drink a beer. I voted against liquor by the drink but they are still dead. Of course it was legal. I would be perfectly happy not to drink beer and only 10000 died from drinking moonshine.

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

I was too young to vote when the sale of liquor was allowed in my state.

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

Tom
You aren't going to save anyone by continuing the prohibition on cannabis.
Under this present state, a young college kid caught with a baggy of weed carries this criminal record around for life.

The cop who made the bust could have been out drinking his face off with the procecutor and the judge the night before with no social stigma or repercussions for doing so.

Let's end the prohibition and admit defeat in this "War on Drugs" where it applies to cannabis.