Did a search and didn't find any info on this topic, so forgive me if this has already been discussed.

Currently, Arecibo is still at risk of being shut down in 2011 due to funding issues. It's already been explained in a post by Eric that although the ATA is going to be an excellent scientific instrument, it is not suited for the kind of full-sky survey that Arecibo is capable of.

If Arecibo shuts down, needless to say Seti@home is going to have to find another radio observatory to piggyback on. If / when that happens, would the Seti@home team go back to the drawing board and re-design the science apps to be compatible with a new observatory, shut down collection of new data and re-crunch existing data as much as possible at different frequencies, or simply shut down completely?

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You will be assimilated...bunghole!

Bigger is better. But if it does happen that arecibo shuts down, SETI@home could analyse data from anything. It would just mean the search would be less sensitive. They could search for ET on your home TV satalite dish if worst came to worst.

Arecibo won't shut down, they just need to draw media attention to the issue so that they won't cut the funding needed to keep it open.

And i'm sure the people running the ATA would be more than willing to help this project.

John.

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Here is a very good list of radio telescopes around the world. In theory, if Arecibo shut down, SETI@home could use radio data from any of these telescopes; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radio_telescopes

John.

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Here is a very good list of radio telescopes around the world. In theory, if Arecibo shut down, SETI@home could use radio data from any of these telescopes; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radio_telescopes

John.

Yes but the question is, would they? I imagine it would take a fair bit of funding to move the data recorder from Arecibo, and a fair bit of work to re-code the client to look for different shaped gaussians at the new dish.

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You will be assimilated...bunghole!

The Allen Array is awfully small, and will be, still, when it's finished. I don't see that it would do Seti a whole lot of good unless one waits until all dishes are up, they're fully stretched out (for best interferometry) and aimed, say, at a globular cluster or at known stars.

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Yes but the question is, would they? I imagine it would take a fair bit of funding to move the data recorder from Arecibo, and a fair bit of work to re-code the client to look for different shaped gaussians at the new dish.

???????? AFAIK guassians do not change shape, only the timing would alter with dish panning speed. Also I suspect a large range of timings are already covered.

Good point about the shape of the gaussians. This isn't really a big deal for me, I just know that Seti isn't exactly rolling in the dough and I'm wondering if they have any plans should Areicebo go dark. :)

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You will be assimilated...bunghole!

Another good point to remember here. When you are looking for a needle in a haystack like SETI@home is, and we don't know what the needle looks like, bigger is not always better!

Arecibo is big, its the biggest on the planet. But it looks at a large section of sky, so its like standing 10 meters back from the haystack and looking at the whole haystack for the needle. Maybe it might even be better to search with a smaller telescope that can be directed at tiny parts of the sky for longer periods of time.

In many ways, its like Kepler looking for planets. They are only looking at one single tiny part of the sky. But Kepler will look incredibly accurately at this tiny part of the sky for 4 years without blinking.

If there are intelligent alien's transmitting then the best search is a very long sustained search in one densely populated part of the sky. To an extent, the Allen Telescope Array might even be better at this type of search.

John.

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Another good point to remember here. When you are looking for a needle in a haystack like SETI@home is, and we don't know what the needle looks like, bigger is not always better!

Arecibo is big, its the biggest on the planet. But it looks at a large section of sky, so its like standing 10 meters back from the haystack and looking at the whole haystack for the needle. Maybe it might even be better to search with a smaller telescope that can be directed at tiny parts of the sky for longer periods of time. ...

The bigger the dish you have, the narrower the radio beam that can be focused.

Arecibo has the finest resolution of any single radio telescope on Earth.

However, note that phased arrays of smaller telescopes spread across a larger area can be synthesized to give yet smaller beamwidths (finer resolution) but for the penalty of less sensitivity than Arecibo.

Another however is that phased arrays can electronically scan the heavens very much faster than for mechanically steered arrays!

It's all a compromise...

Keep searchin',
Martin

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Another good point to remember here. When you are looking for a needle in a haystack like SETI@home is, and we don't know what the needle looks like, bigger is not always better!

Arecibo is big, its the biggest on the planet. But it looks at a large section of sky, so its like standing 10 meters back from the haystack and looking at the whole haystack for the needle. Maybe it might even be better to search with a smaller telescope that can be directed at tiny parts of the sky for longer periods of time. ...

The bigger the dish you have, the narrower the radio beam that can be focused.

Arecibo has the finest resolution of any single radio telescope on Earth.

However, note that phased arrays of smaller telescopes spread across a larger area can be synthesized to give yet smaller beamwidths (finer resolution) but for the penalty of less sensitivity than Arecibo.

Another however is that phased arrays can electronically scan the heavens very much faster than for mechanically steered arrays!

It's all a compromise...

Keep searchin',
Martin

Agreed Martin!

But it does leave plenty of hope in the event of Arecibo closing and SETI@home having to find a different telescope. There are pro's and con's with both types.

John.

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The Allen Telescope Array is made specifically to search for aliens, and is
excellent at this job. You can find details in Seth Shostak's new book "Confessions of an alien hunter"

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The Allen Telescope Array is made specifically to search for aliens, and is
excellent at this job. You can find details in Seth Shostak's new book "Confessions of an alien hunter"

Linked: Seth Shostak: Confessions of an Alien Hunter

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

I'm making a guess only: Maybe with a bunch of dishes spread out as an interferometer that interferometer, even though it might have a total area less than that of one big dish, might be more sensitive over the tiny area on which it's focused (commensurate with its resolving power) than the big dish which is focused on a larger area commensurate with its resolving power.

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An Italian newspaper has published an article about the Square Kilometer Array to be built in Australia. I haven't see any confirmation.
Tullio

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The total area of a dish antenna, or group of them, represents its main contribution to system gain, thus sensitivity. Resolving power (ability to discern fine detail) can be enhanced in an interferometer, over that of a single dish, if the separation of the dishes is greater than that of the diameter of the single dish. Michael

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An Italian newspaper has published an article about the Square Kilometer Array to be built in Australia. I haven't see any confirmation.
Tullio

> here you go Tulio . . .





. . . Italy and Australia work together on world's biggest telescope

. . . Australian SKA project

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

Thanks. As I understand it, this is a bilateral agreement between Italy and Australia to push for SKA to be built in Australia. But the site has not yet reached an international consensus, necessary for such a big and costly project. I believe South Africa is another possible location.
Tullio

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It looks like, in Dr Cetis bottom picture above, there are about 1,000 10-meter dishes (comparing them to the size of the truck which is not much closer than the nearest dish). In order to have a square kilometer of collecting area 12,732 10-meter dishes are required.

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It looks like, in Dr Cetis bottom picture above, there are about 1,000 10-meter dishes (comparing them to the size of the truck which is not much closer than the nearest dish). In order to have a square kilometer of collecting area 12,732 10-meter dishes are required.

I think they should have a 12 m diameter.

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~ The phased array at the heart of the SKA ~

The phased array in the foreground will be capable of observing the whole sky and able to provide multiple beams

so that several tasks can be carried out simultaneously.

Surrounding this is the compact array of small dishes lying within a larger, more open, array . . .


. . . 'As the SKA will be an aperture synthesis instrument, exciting science will be

achievable before the full array is complete. Phase I of the SKA will comprise 15% of

the final collecting area, allowing astronomers to produce “early science” by 2015,

before the full collecting area at frequencies below about 10 GHz will be operational

in 2020.'

Detection of artificial transmissions from a planet around another star would be the most compelling evidence

for life elsewhere and a profound moment for all of humanity.

While searches for extraterrestrial transmission have been conducted before, the SKA sensitivity will allow

for the first time signals to be detected from nearby stars that are no stronger than those generated

by our own 21st century TVs and radars . . .

. . . 'Additional studies of the characteristics of the short-listed sites will be carried

out from 2008 to 2010.

A final decision on the location of the SKA is expected thereafter.'

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .