24/7 running CPU @ 100%?

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Profile Rick B

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Message 866322 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 1:20:55 UTC

Will Running Boinc / Seti@home 24/7 overheat and damage the computer? I had a CPU crack once from overheating and do not want this to happen again but do want to maximize the efficiency of the computers capabilities for the Seti project.

Thanks all

Rick
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Message 866326 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 1:33:34 UTC - in response to Message 866322.  

So long as you keep the CPU within its temperature specifications it won't be a problem. You can always check at the Intel web site for the specifics for your CPU.

Are you using stock air cooling or something more "exotic"?
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Message 866328 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 1:36:21 UTC - in response to Message 866326.  

Its all Stock! New System about a month old and Im no expert on this stuff. I couldnt find the current CPU temperature today when I tried. Im getting older and slower at keeping up with technology!
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Message 866331 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 1:41:19 UTC
Last modified: 17 Feb 2009, 2:20:27 UTC

Most desktops will have no problem running BOINC 24/7 if the dust bunnies are kept at bay, and you don't overclock. Or if you do overclock, you increase the cooling.

Some laptops are not designed with enough cooling to cope with long term 100% CPU utilization. In these cases, you can add a cooling tray (fans underneath the laptop), reduce the number of CPUs used by one, or if there is only 1 CPU, you can reduce the % of CPU time used to about 75%.

For most computers it is all about cooling. With enough cooling the CPU should be able to run 24/7/365. Without sufficient cooling, you are doing damage.

I have several computers that have been running S@H for almost 10 years now 24/7. (I think I want an upgrade).


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Message 866339 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 1:56:24 UTC - in response to Message 866331.  

...
With enough cooling the CPU should be able to run 24/7/385. ...
...



I'm sorry.. I couldn't resist.. ;-D

I thought there are 'only' 365 days in year.. :-D

..kidding.. ;-D

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Message 866356 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 2:43:45 UTC

I have had laptops and desktops running 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no problems. My desktops have been overclocked just using the fan that came with the processor with no problems.
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Message 866374 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 3:25:29 UTC

It is about heat management. If you do not know how to manage it and do not want to learn, then either ask someone who knows to set it up for you or leave the whole thing along.
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Message 866378 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 3:32:01 UTC

Any PC should be designed to keep the CPU below it's design max temp no matter what you are running. Although Seti does run the CPU at 100% all the time it doesn't actually generate it's maximum potential heat(TDP) as not every instrucion that is being run is a high power one. Depending on what part of the CPU is being used it will use a different amount of power.

The manufacturer has designed things so that the CPU will survive under a worst case scenario, and run for many years like that. Your actual heat dissapation, even running at 100% may only be 50-75% of the max.

Now if you have a fault with the cooling, or push the CPU speed and voltage too far, then you can cook a CPU. But thats things like dust bunnies in the cooler or case vents, siezed cooling fans, loose heatsinks - actual mechanical problems. The CPU should shut down to protect itself, but it only does that once it's gone OVER it's max temp, so it's not going to do it any good.

But as long as your machine is in good condition then running it 24/7 will do no harm. It's also a good brun-in test for a machine. If it can run SETI for several days, then it's generally not faulty. After I repair or rebuild a machine I often just load S@H and run it for a couple of days as a 'real world' test.

Ian
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Message 866381 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 3:48:18 UTC - in response to Message 866378.  

Any PC should be designed to keep the CPU below it's design max temp no matter what you are running. Although Seti does run the CPU at 100% all the time it doesn't actually generate it's maximum potential heat(TDP) as not every instrucion that is being run is a high power one. Depending on what part of the CPU is being used it will use a different amount of power.

The manufacturer has designed things so that the CPU will survive under a worst case scenario, and run for many years like that. Your actual heat dissapation, even running at 100% may only be 50-75% of the max.

Now if you have a fault with the cooling, or push the CPU speed and voltage too far, then you can cook a CPU. But thats things like dust bunnies in the cooler or case vents, siezed cooling fans, loose heatsinks - actual mechanical problems. The CPU should shut down to protect itself, but it only does that once it's gone OVER it's max temp, so it's not going to do it any good.

But as long as your machine is in good condition then running it 24/7 will do no harm. It's also a good brun-in test for a machine. If it can run SETI for several days, then it's generally not faulty. After I repair or rebuild a machine I often just load S@H and run it for a couple of days as a 'real world' test.

Ian

This is true for desktips. Laptops are typically more of a compromise. Some laptops can run all out for a little while, but then need to cool off. I have several Laptops running 24/7, one of which needs to be vacuumed religously ever 4 months to clean out the dust build up. I have heard of others that can only run on an 80% cycle - S@H on for 4 seconds and off for 1.


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Message 866402 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 6:34:16 UTC

Older CPUs would just run until they went into nuclear meltdown (I have an AthlonXP 2000+ (thoroughbred core) that had a stock fan failure, and I had MBM5 running and logging at the time, and it logged a temp of 103C at the time of the system shutting down. I was able to power back on a few minutes later, but the system shut off in BIOS again and never woke back up. I reached in and touched the heatsink and got burnt. Gave it about 20 minutes and took the heatsink off, and the PCB was very glossy and discolored around the core.

Newer CPUs though (I would say..anything made in the past 5 years) will automatically downclock to a low speed when they get too hot, and most motherboards have options for "shut down at this temperature". That board I had the XP2000+ on had that option, but the only options it had were "enabled" and "disabled", set for 105C.

My current board will let me go in 5C increments from 60-115C..I have mine set for 65.
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Message 866489 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 13:56:30 UTC
Last modified: 17 Feb 2009, 14:04:03 UTC

Just as an experiment I snoozed SETI to see what the temp difference would be (hp dv4 laptop). Went from 73c to the mid 60s immediately, now its at 54c (according to CPUID). Guess I need to get a laptop cooler. Hopefully it's not doing any long-term damage.
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Message 866495 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 14:59:05 UTC - in response to Message 866489.  

Just as an experiment I snoozed SETI to see what the temp difference would be (hp dv4 laptop). Went from 73c to the mid 60s immediately, now its at 54c (according to CPUID). Guess I need to get a laptop cooler. Hopefully it's not doing any long-term damage.

Laptops always need Cooling since you are working a PC in a very confined space. My PC only gets to 54C when I run astropulse.

Just an FYI. Most PCs have temperature cutoffs that will shutdown your PC before the heat does any damage. So as long as you arent doing anything crazy your stock box won't have any problems. Just keep the dust out and it should be fine


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Message 866515 - Posted: 17 Feb 2009, 15:51:24 UTC - in response to Message 866402.  

Well CPUs are tough little fellas. I have a Tbred1800+ that have been running most of the last 5 years plus at 100% + overclocking, and still going strong until I recently decided to pull the plug due to the electricity cost killing the case for a dedicated torrent box(and moving the torrenting job to the main cruncher)

Working at a major IDM, I think that most Quality Managers at the big MNCs are overly conservative. Some of those High Temperature Operating Life tests we do for qualification actually correlates to something crazy like >1e3 to 1e4 years or so...

Your case just proved yet again that mostly the weakest links are the fans, motherboard components (particularly those from before the advent of solid caps), or for the majority of us reading this forum - obsolesence.
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Message 866760 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009, 16:31:54 UTC

I borrowed an alleged 'laptop cooler' to see how it worked. HM reported that the internal temp went UP a degree (73c) than sitting on my desk. And it sucked up a usb port. So I propped up the back of the computer on it instead and temp dropped to 67c and holding. Its one of those basic 2 fan bases, anyone have a recommendation for a better one? This thing barely moves air at all.
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Message 866764 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009, 16:51:30 UTC - in response to Message 866760.  

I borrowed an alleged 'laptop cooler' to see how it worked. HM reported that the internal temp went UP a degree (73c) than sitting on my desk. And it sucked up a usb port. So I propped up the back of the computer on it instead and temp dropped to 67c and holding. Its one of those basic 2 fan bases, anyone have a recommendation for a better one? This thing barely moves air at all.

I would take a look at the laptop coolers on newegg as a good place to start. I typically sort by best rating and make a price decision from there.
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record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)
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Message 866902 - Posted: 18 Feb 2009, 23:27:22 UTC - in response to Message 866760.  

I borrowed an alleged 'laptop cooler' to see how it worked. HM reported that the internal temp went UP a degree (73c) than sitting on my desk. And it sucked up a usb port. So I propped up the back of the computer on it instead and temp dropped to 67c and holding. Its one of those basic 2 fan bases, anyone have a recommendation for a better one? This thing barely moves air at all.

It may be that the cooler fans are working against the laptop fans. If you unscrew the fans and turn them over, it might work better. If the laptop fan is blowing out the bottom, the cooler fan should be pulling air away from the bottom of the laptop. The reverse is true as well.


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Message 867413 - Posted: 20 Feb 2009, 19:36:10 UTC
Last modified: 20 Feb 2009, 19:40:45 UTC

GREETINGS
I keep a Targus "Laptop Cooling Chill Mat, model PA248U" on under a Dell Inspiron 1501 laptop, running both 24/7 now, using at most 75% of page file, 50% memory in use and 90% when not in use. Have single cpu, 2GB RAM, Vista Home Basic. Have done this for a year since realizing that my hard drive was getting real hot.

So far I haven't had any trouble with heat (hard drive always quite cool now) although one chill mat was replaced (after about 7 months because of noise) by OfficeMax on their wonderful $3 warranty; the base of the monitor screen gets a little hot after a lot of photoshop-type work; the chill mat runs off a USB hub with an independent power supply; have 6/8 USB ports used up altogether, sometimes 7. No crashes or freezes ever.

Also I do something else: always keep a < 3/4" (2cm) x 1" (3cm) x 12" (30cm) strip of wood under the very back edge running the length of the chill mat/computer, where the top hinges. The back edge of the chill mat rests on the wood strip and then the laptop on top of this. This contributes to additional cooling and i think, makes the keyboard more ergonomic. The air coming out of the top of the fan definitely stays cool. chilling out is cool
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Message 867489 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009, 0:46:03 UTC - in response to Message 866489.  

Just as an experiment I snoozed SETI to see what the temp difference would be (hp dv4 laptop). Went from 73c to the mid 60s immediately, now its at 54c (according to CPUID). Guess I need to get a laptop cooler. Hopefully it's not doing any long-term damage.


Can you under-volt it? My Toshiba laptop used to run in the mid to high 60's in warmer weather (currently 61 in unheated room)running BOINC, but since under-volting to .95 using Notebook Hardware Control it runs around 50. Without BOINC it is 46-48 range.

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Message 867543 - Posted: 21 Feb 2009, 3:39:42 UTC - in response to Message 867489.  

Actually I went to Fry's and got an Antec laptop cooler, the oddly shaped one with 2 80mm fans and large aluminum grill. It's nice and quiet and moves a lot of air, and the usb cable is a pass-thru so the ext mouse is in pretty much the same spot. HM reports 67c with both cpus at 100% as I type. I'll probably look into under-volting when it starts getting into the 80s-90s outside, until then this cooler works great, I recommend it, $30 its easy and cheap.
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