I present you with at least 10 very valid points and your eyes suddenly fog over? Libertarians are what they are a group of people with unrealistic ideals with little hope of ever convincing more than a few scant disenchanted fools that are tired of the status quo. As I've said before, We had H. Ross Perot bring a similar platform and it took about 4 years for people to figure out its a ploy for the ultra rich to maintain wealth and perpetually keep average individuals enslaved with endless labor.

/edit

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

I present you with at least 10 very valid points and your eyes suddenly fog over?

Which post?

Libertarians are what they are unrealistic loonies with no hope of ever convincing more than a few scant disenchanted fools that are tired of the status quo. As I've said before, We had H. Ross Perot bring a similar platform and it took about 4 years for people to figure out its a ploy for the ultra rich to maintain wealth and perpetually keep average individuals enslaved with endless labor.

You are entitled to your opinion of course, no matter how wrong it is.

I can tell you this, the remnants of your credibility will not last long if you keep stating positions that the LP party has not taken and continue to argue against those as if you've made some point against libertarians.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

What I stated is fact. and what I stated is what would happen if what I described occurred. As Much as I dislike paying taxes I really hate having my country invaded because we have no taxes and what we collect is barely enough to cover the cost the paper that the president would sign his name to pointless and toothless laws since the money to enforce laws would be gone.

from the libertarian party platform website(look it up if you doubt):

...Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

So I guess we start the federal Gov't off on a fine footing by not collecting any taxes

People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others.

No military? police? or charity?

They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

Didn't we just get a big fat mouth full of this tripe for the last 8 years?

No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices

No laws? other than do what you want just don't screw up or the Polic ... no wait there's no means of enforcing the non interference rule.

We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology.

BRING ON THE PORN ... Oh wait libertarians love the interweb. I can't wait to see what NBCthepr0n has on its Thursday lineup.

. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

Nice to know that they believe it but do not provide a means of enforcement!!! BTW I can't wait to drive down the 8 lane super dirt road, since we are unable to build Freeways anymore, and get in a head on collision with Joey headcase that is so spaced out on ICE that he thinks my car headlights are aliens coming to take him onboard. All because we don't have any drug enforcement. BTW its going to be great having Columbia running our country by default.

I'm once again getting bored with this. I could write all night because there is so much lunacy on that site.

you might want to actually think about what a Parties platform is and its ramifications on the real world and not some imaginary world where we all get along and are happy little automatons. That didnt work for the Soviets for several reasons and it won't work here. The biggest few are: Greed, ambition, religion, personal desire to do better than my neighbor or parents.

Oops I exaggerated. But that doesn't really matter. Since up is down and black is white

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

from the libertarian party platform website(look it up if you doubt):

...Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

So I guess we start the federal Gov't off on a fine footing by not collecting any taxes

Again, this is wrong because neither the libertarians nor the Libertarian Party take the position that there would be no taxes.

People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others.

No military? police? or charity?

There would be military, police, and voluntary charity under a libertarian gov't. Nothing on their web site suggests otherwise.

They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

Didn't we just get a big fat mouth full of this tripe for the last 8 years?

I don't know what this means. You've been listening to gov't tripe since you were born. It changes tone once in a while, but it remains tripe.

No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices

No laws? other than do what you want just don't screw up or the Polic ... no wait there's no means of enforcing the non interference rule.

Which, of course, is just silly. A libertarian gov't would have laws, and police, and courts, and jails, and a military, and all the rest of it. Nothing on their web site suggests otherwise. Well, to you maybe it does.

We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology.

BRING ON THE PORN ... Oh wait libertarians love the interweb. I can't wait to see what NBCthepr0n has on its Thursday lineup.

I don't even really have any idea what this means. Porn is everywhere. It has little to nothing to do with libertarianism.

. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

Nice to know that they believe it but do not provide a means of enforcement!!! BTW I can't wait to drive down the 8 lane super dirt road, since we are unable to build Freeways anymore, and get in a head on collision with Joey headcase that is so spaced out on ICE that he thinks my car headlights are aliens coming to take him onboard. All because we don't have any drug enforcement. BTW its going to be great having Columbia running our country by default.

Except that libertarians do provide a means for enforcement. They're called police, and courts, and civil and criminal penalties. Maybe you personally couldn't build an 8 lane highway, but that doesn't mean such things wouldn't be built or used. As far as drugs go, well, people use those anyway because they don't care that they are against the law.

I'm once again getting bored with this. I could write all night because there is so much lunacy on that site.

A lot of it you misread and got dead wrong. You could write all night and never make a coherent point because you would be addressing points and positions that they do not make.

you might want to actually think about what a Parties platform is and its ramifications on the real world and not some imaginary world where we all get along and are happy little automatons. That didnt work for the Soviets for several reasons and it won't work here. The biggest few are: Greed, ambition, religion, personal desire to do better than my neighbor or parents.

I don't know how the Soviets apply. They tried even more regulation than the U.S. uses, and it failed them too. I'm not sure how that applied to libertarianism.

Oops I exaggerated. But that doesn't really matter. Since up is down and black is white

Not only did you exaggerate, you made a number of glaring errors.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Ok here is the most vital point and I quote it directly from their website just as I had before. btw that site is http://www.lp.org/platform. Please note that this is the PLATFORM of their party.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. [b][i]People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others.[b][i] They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

Please note the highlighted sentence. Can there be any other interpretation other than the libertarian party opposes all taxes?

and by that the gov't would be unable to function other than as corporate nation states. since there would be nothing but "free" trading going on. This isn't calculus. this is very simple and its downright frightening to think that this would be a better system. A system where the people would be at the mercy of the Corporations that already have shown how diligent and responsible they can be with regulations. I can't imagine how wonderful it would be without the regulations

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

There, fixed that for you.

Ok here is the most vital point and I quote it directly from their website just as I had before. btw that site is http://www.lp.org/platform. Please note that this is the PLATFORM of their party.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

Please note the highlighted sentence. Can there be any other interpretation other than the libertarian party opposes all taxes?

Yes there can be, very simply, because A) it's the platform, a summary, not a detailed discussion of their positions and why. B) you're quoting a passage that refers freedom of contract and the open markets, not taxation and in fact the passage doesn't even mention taxation. And C) because they know full well that you cannot operate police, courts, and a gov't without the revenue to do so.

You seem to want to insist on defining a long history of libertarian thought and philosophy according to your erroneous interpretations thereof when that simply doesn't make any sense. Libertarians do not hold the positions that you have convinced yourself that they must, especially given that they talk freely about the rule of law, and law enforcement against those that would commit crimes.

and by that the gov't would be unable to function other than as corporate nation states. since there would be nothing but "free" trading going on. This isn't calculus.

No, it's not calculus. Neither is it anything resembling the libertarian position, as evidenced by their web page and reams and reams of libertarian literature. None of which you have ever bothered to read.

this is very simple and its downright frightening to think that this would be a better system. A system where the people would be at the mercy of the Corporations that already have shown how diligent and responsible they can be with regulations. I can't imagine how wonderful it would be without the regulations

You are speaking of a system that would exist under some forms of anarchy, not libertarianism. In some senses we agree: anarchy is not a workable system.

Too bad we aren't discussing anarchy.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

So you quote from the platform and say its gold that this is the be all end all. I quote it and its made into less of a manifesto in your eyes and more of guidelines. As much fun as I've had with this one I'd say the goose, she is cooked. No need for me to reply anymore because nobody is even presenting an opposing view.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

So you quote from the platform and say its gold that this is the be all end all. I quote it and its made into less of a manifesto in your eyes and more of guidelines.

Ummmm, wrong again. That must get really old.

I quote the website to demonstrate your glaring errors, nothing more. I realize that the website platform is just a summary, and does not present in detail the reasoning behind their positions. You on the other hand, quote it and demonstrate that you have no idea what ideas comprise libertarianism. I mean, you don't even rise to the level of being wrong because you have completely misinterpreted their positions.

How about this: why don't you pretend, just pretend that libertarian gov'ts would collect taxes, have police, courts, a legal system, rules, laws, and military and the rest of it.

What then?

As much fun as I've had with this one I'd say the goose, she is cooked. No need for me to reply anymore because nobody is even presenting an opposing view.

Oh the goose is is cooked all right. It's been cooked for a long time. Let's just say, that it probably isn't the goose that you think it is, you master philosopher you.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Income Redistribution: Overwhelming the stimulus

Less than one month old, the $787 billion economic stimulus package is already having an effect. Not only is it stimulating confusion in states and municipalities unsure as to which projects are "stimulative" enough to deserve funds, but it is also stimulating as many as 300,000 jobs -- for the illegal aliens who make up a significant percentage of the construction workforce ready to tackle those "shovel-ready" infrastructure projects.

Augmenting the underwhelming success of the stimulus are February's unemployment numbers, which reached a 26-year high of 8.1 percent and threaten to hit 10 percent by summer. The package was supposed to "save or create" 3.5 million jobs, but thus far 4.4 million have been lost, with more probably on the way. Indeed, The Washington Post headlined, "Job Losses Could Drown Stimulus." In other words, massive federal spending won't fix anything.

So you quote from the platform and say its gold that this is the be all end all. I quote it and its made into less of a manifesto in your eyes and more of guidelines.

Ummmm, wrong again. That must get really old.

I quote the website to demonstrate your glaring errors, nothing more. I realize that the website platform is just a summary, and does not present in detail the reasoning behind their positions. You on the other hand, quote it and demonstrate that you have no idea what ideas comprise libertarianism. I mean, you don't even rise to the level of being wrong because you have completely misinterpreted their positions.

How about this: why don't you pretend, just pretend that libertarian gov'ts would collect taxes, have police, courts, a legal system, rules, laws, and military and the rest of it.

What then?

As much fun as I've had with this one I'd say the goose, she is cooked. No need for me to reply anymore because nobody is even presenting an opposing view.

Oh the goose is is cooked all right. It's been cooked for a long time. Let's just say, that it probably isn't the goose that you think it is, you master philosopher you.

and telling me I'm wrong makes you right...HMMM I can do that too.

you are wrong!
shall we continue the contradiction argument. perhaps if you wrote something more that the manifesto and no its not you'd have an argument

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope