We're just too far way

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Paul

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Message 848448 - Posted: 3 Jan 2009, 1:09:17 UTC

We have never been visited with intelligent life from another planet.
The closest star (other than our sun) to earth is Alpha Centauri (AC). It is approximately 4.5 light years away. In other words, it will take light traveling at the speed of 186,000 miles per second to reach it. We are not able to realistically perceive that distance.
Now, if for example, there was the potential of life on a planet that orbits AC then we might consider going there? Wrong!
It would not be physically possible to make such a journey. The same would also apply to other intelligent life in our universe. Here's why.
If we were able to develop a vehicle that was able to travel at one-thousandth the speed of light, then that would be at 186 miles per second. We're not even close to having any vehicle traveling anywhere near that speed. In simple terms, that's 669,600 miles per hour (MPH)! Sounds a bit fast?
At that unrealistic blazing speed it would take 4,500 years on a non-stop course to reach our closest star, Alpha Centauri. Any volunteers? I'd say that's a long time.
Additionally, a vehicle the size of a small city would be required just to carry food and supplies. And how about fuel? There's no gas stations along the way.
These barriers to space travel will remain forever. Yes there are planets with intelligent life but we all will never meet. That's just how it is.

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Message 848496 - Posted: 3 Jan 2009, 3:31:05 UTC

What you failed to understand is we are just trying to see if there is intelligent life outside ours. We know that meeting them is not possible. In fact the signal we receive may be from a long ago civilization. They may no longer exist.

If you do not believe in this project, find another. There are ones that are looking for cures for all kinds of diseases, some that are looking at climate predicting, and a number of other worthy projects.

SETI has pioneered distributed computing, and has helped make it possible for many people around the world to work for different causes.



My movie https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/502242
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Message 848587 - Posted: 3 Jan 2009, 8:50:36 UTC - in response to Message 848448.  
Last modified: 3 Jan 2009, 9:16:14 UTC

I totally diagree with you ! what you think as impossible today is actually a fact

tomorrow. I believe the homo sapiens and homo erectus (stone age) would not

believe that a person can travel from japan to us in 8 hours, We shall travel

between those stars someday in the near future , nothing absolutely nothing can

and will stop us, that is and will always be our future. The universe mighty as

it may seem is ours to conquer its only time.There is inteligent life out there and

not to believe so is quit an insult to our universe that has over time shown us

exactly what it can do.
We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy
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Michael Watson

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Message 848753 - Posted: 3 Jan 2009, 17:29:10 UTC - in response to Message 848448.  

Welcome to SETI@home and the forums, Paul. Predicting what won't be possible in the future, based on current, limited knowledge has a long and interesting history. What is perhaps most notable about these predictions is that they were almost always wrong! I remind you that such things as radio waves, heavier than air flying machines, atomic power generation and weapons, and travel by rockets through space, to name but a few, were all said, at one time or another, to be impossible fantasies, by experts in the appropriate fields. Will rocketry do for interstellar travels? Perhaps not. There are other possibilities already being seriously discussed. Who can say what the future will hold? Michael
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Message 848770 - Posted: 3 Jan 2009, 18:05:06 UTC - in response to Message 848448.  
Last modified: 3 Jan 2009, 18:10:31 UTC

These barriers to space travel will remain forever. Yes there are planets with intelligent life but we all will never meet. That's just how it is.



With respect to my fellow Seti@Home posters, I know for certain that most astronomers and SETI scientists fully agree with that last statement.

Even Seth Shostak has said he's virtually certain that while two civilizations could have long-term communication, they would probably not be able to meet face to face.


One thing though; your estimates regarding currently attainable speeds and travel times are off.

These were two concept projects developed by the American and European space agencies using existing technology and some short-term development with the goal of sending an unmanned probe to the nearest star systems with arrival times of less than 100 years.

Project Longshot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Longshot
Project Daedalus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus



I agree, it's difficult to predict future technology which might allow for fast interstellar travel, but if the laws of physics are at least fundamentally somewhat correct, then faster than light travel is probably not possible or practical regardless of whatever technological capabilities a civilization may possess.


The analogies with past predictions about future technology, etc don't apply to the speed of light. All of those predictions were based on assumptions about limits on our own potential technology, but the speed of light is not just an assumed technological barrier; it's a barrier for the entire universe. In order for the universe to work the way we believe it does, the speed of light *must not* be surpassed.

Then again, for all I know there may be ways to circumvent the speed of light; maybe warp drives that warp local spacetime, maybe cheap ways of constructing and passing through wormholes....

I guess it's possible.
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Michael Watson

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Message 848801 - Posted: 3 Jan 2009, 19:02:09 UTC

Actually, some of the faulty predictions I mentioned, the ones involving atomic energy and radio waves, *were* based on physical considerations assumed at the time to be correct. It was once supposed that radio waves did not exist in the physical universe, were merely a mathematical abstraction. It was also argued that it was physically impossible to extract energy from the atom. Michael
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Message 848922 - Posted: 3 Jan 2009, 22:00:04 UTC

with so much unknown about the physics of the universe, it would be possible that in the future we realised that the speed of light barrier could be surpassed.
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Message 849023 - Posted: 4 Jan 2009, 1:50:06 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jan 2009, 2:22:11 UTC

A pretty good webpage on faster than light travel/communication:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html

The *apparent* impossibility of faster than light travel isn't merely due to what scientists consider practical or achievable, it's that, as the website states, faster than light travel would mean that causality itself is violated.

There is a near universal consensus among physicists, cosmologists, and even SETI astronomers that light speed could only ever be circumvented, not surpassed locally.

I happily admit that this current understanding of physics might turn out to be bunk, but for now I'll assume it's true.
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Message 849030 - Posted: 4 Jan 2009, 2:02:42 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jan 2009, 2:08:42 UTC

Well, as others have already said, SETI has nothing to do with physical space travel. SETI simply looks for radio waves that don't appear to come from natural sources as we understand them. Thats it. Nothing less. Nothing more.

As for your hypothetical spaceship flying at 1/1000th the speed on light, it would travel 4.5 light years in less time than 4,500 years -- according to the clocks on board the ship. Yes, 4,500 years would pass on the Earth, but the clocks on the ship would run slower compared to the frame of reference of Earth clocks. Even GPS satellites, which are traveling much slower than 1/1000th the speed of light, have to be error corrected for relativity. (Special and general, in the case of satellites in orbit.) Google: "time dilation".

Having worked satellite communications in the military, I will concede that SETI's greatest obstacle is the Inverse Square Law. I am also inclined to agree with you that civilizations are, most likely, incubated from one another in space and time.

However, there is a slight chance of hope. Consider that we are now in the infancy of being able to determine the chemical composition of extrasolar planets. Granted, we mainly can only do this with extremely large planets, but we are still the infancy of this science. Projects like the Terrestrial Planet Finder may be able to do this with Earth sized planets and, if the funds are there, they will be underway within our life time. Now, imagine a civilization that is hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of Earth years more advanced than we are. It is possible that they have detected chemical compositions (high levels of oxygen and methane together) on Earth that may suggest life (as we know it) existed here millions of years ago. They may have deliberately sent a signal here that has been in transit for eons. Yes, it is far fetched. I will admit that.

SETI is a long duration project. We will pass it down to the next generation, who will in turn pass it down to their descendants. While it gets passed down to each generation, computers will continue to improve. Perhaps, more importantly, receivers will also improve.

As others have also said, the S@H project also pioneered internet distributed computing, which is utilized by many worthwhile projects these days.
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Message 850486 - Posted: 7 Jan 2009, 17:17:36 UTC


Hello Paul

Its good to see you are posting here and have some ideas. I respect your ideas but i do not agree with alot of your statments.

As humans evolve we will learn more about the universe. As of now alot of people look at the universe in a view of laws and things that cant be broken. We as humans are far to young to understand the nautre of the known universe. We can only assume certain things about the universe. Mostly because we have done some testing and it seems to be that way for now. I really think that one day we will figure out a way to communicate over very large distances real time. And I also think one day humans will travel faster than light. But to achive this humans must understand the very small. We have alot to learn about quarks , atoms and how we can use them to help us.
Please done lock your thinking into just today's techonolgy. If there is a civilization out there that has evolved to the point they can sustain them selves from being wiped out by galactic events. I am sure they would be far more advance. and maybe would know more about the universe than we know now.
our peoblem is that .... one day we may get wiped out with out ever having the chance to evolve.


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life is not measured by the breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath.
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Message 853001 - Posted: 13 Jan 2009, 11:58:42 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jan 2009, 12:17:25 UTC

Linear high speed inter stellar travel presents many, many, problems.
I'm sure other civilisations more advanced than us have tried it.
It tends to reek of a "large hammer" approach to the issue.
Personally I feel it is a non runner for these distances
and linear travel from point a to point b should be confined to exploring the planets of a civilisations local star.
New science is needed, if that is possible.
It may be insurmountable.
Or some may have cracked it.
For these that may have attained this pinnacle of technology,
science has probably advanced to a point where "we" are of little interest to them,
hence why thay have proved to be so elusive.
Also, the posession of such technology, if it exists,
would have huge repercussions for the wider inter stellar community
if in the wrong hands, and those who have it,
would police it accordingly.
Modern day humans are not ready,
parts of our earth are still inhabited by barbaric uncivilised nutters,
and some that are supposedly civilised are untrustworthy
and corrupt.
The good guys don't call the shots, yet.
Just a thought :)


*** Those who know, don't speak,
those who speak, don't know ***
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lemonade lucy

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Message 853008 - Posted: 13 Jan 2009, 13:17:14 UTC

paul, welcome, I will add to the nice posts basically suggestting what we think we know in this fluid vagueness limited by our descriptors/tools. what I add though is a thought responding to your first statement, "We have never been visited with intelligent life from another planet." what we know. heck, these people behind this project could be aliens trying to get home; all of us attracted to this pursuit could by genetically linked and trying to get home or get some word from the mothership. in short, the word never, in this context and so often, is best left for dead run over by new ideas and consequent understanding, new visions with respect for a boundlessly fertile ground for everything in which the word possible is beyond our comprehension. this opportunity engine is seemingly limitless, so our thoughts should respect how little we know. which is great. imagine having all the answers to every question. something is fueling this ongoingness, could it be the greys? hehe. don't know, so, why not? we could be that message in a bottle.
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Message boards : SETI@home Science : We're just too far way


 
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