Non-integer factorials?

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Non-integer factorials?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

AuthorMessage
Profile Sergej O. S.
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 08
Posts: 123
Credit: 44,886
RAC: 0
Russia
Message 824881 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 11:25:01 UTC

Hi. I'm writing a program (as one of my hobbies) that calculates factorials. But people are telling me that non-integer factorials have no use - the Gamma function instead - G(z)=(z-1)!.

Is it true that non-integer factorials have no use?
And if they have, then how, where?
ID: 824881 · Report as offensive
Profile William Rothamel
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 3756
Credit: 1,999,735
RAC: 4
United States
Message 824914 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 13:57:18 UTC - in response to Message 824881.  

My intuition tells me that rational, non-integer factorials would be useful in determining series convergences--albeit with some fiddling with scale factors.

Regards,

BILL
ID: 824914 · Report as offensive
Profile Clyde C. Phillips, III

Send message
Joined: 2 Aug 00
Posts: 1851
Credit: 5,955,047
RAC: 0
United States
Message 824961 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 17:59:12 UTC

So, what is 2.5!? 1 x 2 x (3)^1/2? Probably not, because that last factor is probably calculated by a different rule. Maybe non-integer factorials never have been defined.
ID: 824961 · Report as offensive
Profile Sergej O. S.
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 08
Posts: 123
Credit: 44,886
RAC: 0
Russia
Message 824977 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 18:48:08 UTC - in response to Message 824914.  

My intuition tells me that rational, non-integer factorials would be useful in determining series convergences--albeit with some fiddling with scale factors.

Regards,

BILL

Thank you. I'll try to find the formula for practical use on that field...
ID: 824977 · Report as offensive
Profile Sergej O. S.
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 08
Posts: 123
Credit: 44,886
RAC: 0
Russia
Message 824979 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 18:53:43 UTC - in response to Message 824961.  

So, what is 2.5!? 1 x 2 x (3)^1/2? Probably not, because that last factor is probably calculated by a different rule. Maybe non-integer factorials never have been defined.

Is 96% true. Exactly, 2.5! = 0.5 * 1.5 * 2.5 * pi^0.5

Unfortunately, values other than integer + 0.5 doesn't work that way, or I don't see how...
ID: 824979 · Report as offensive
HTH
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 8 Jul 00
Posts: 691
Credit: 909,237
RAC: 0
Finland
Message 825010 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 21:31:15 UTC - in response to Message 824881.  
Last modified: 30 Oct 2008, 21:33:31 UTC

Hi. I'm writing a program (as one of my hobbies) that calculates factorials. But people are telling me that non-integer factorials have no use - the Gamma function instead - G(z)=(z-1)!.

Is it true that non-integer factorials have no use?
And if they have, then how, where?


The gamma function is the generalization of the factorial function.

Some gadgets and formulas:
[tex]
n! = \Gamma(n+1)
\Gamma(p) = \int_{0}^{\infty}e^{-x}x^{p-1}\,\text{d}x
\Gamma(p+1) = p*\Gamma(p)
\Gamma(1/2) = \sqrt{\pi}
[/tex]

2.5!? Hmm. Let's see:
[tex]
2.5! = \Gamma(2.5+1) = \Gamma(3.5) = \Gamma(7/2) = (5/2)\Gamma(5/2) = (5/2)(3/2)\Gamma(3/2) = (5/2)(3/2)(1/2)\Gamma(1/2) = (5/2)(3/2)(1/2)\sqrt{\pi} = (15/8)\sqrt{\pi} \approx 3.3233509704478425511840640312646.
[/tex]

Henri.

Manned mission to Mars in 2019 Petition <-- Sign this, please.
ID: 825010 · Report as offensive
HTH
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 8 Jul 00
Posts: 691
Credit: 909,237
RAC: 0
Finland
Message 825017 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 21:40:11 UTC - in response to Message 824979.  

Unfortunately, values other than integer + 0.5 doesn't work that way, or I don't see how...


[tex]
0.6\Gamma(0.6) = \Gamma(0.6+1) = \Gamma(1.6) = from the table book = 0.89352.
[/tex]

[tex]
\Gamma(0.6) = \Gamma(0.6+1)/0.6 = (1/0.6)\Gamma(1.6) = (1/0.6)*0.89352 = 1.4892.
[/tex]

[tex]
\Gamma(-1/2) = \Gamma(-(1/2) + 1)/(-1/2) = -2\Gamma(1/2) = -2\sqrt{\pi}.
[/tex]

Henri.

Manned mission to Mars in 2019 Petition <-- Sign this, please.
ID: 825017 · Report as offensive
Profile Sergej O. S.
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 08
Posts: 123
Credit: 44,886
RAC: 0
Russia
Message 825042 - Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 22:37:11 UTC - in response to Message 825017.  
Last modified: 30 Oct 2008, 22:40:08 UTC

Yes, Henri.
My program is fairly precise by now: 17-18 digits. Not as much as Windows Calculator (32), but does it instantly for big numbers.

By the way, you don't know how to calculate nagative factorials? Or how to convert from positive ones?
ID: 825042 · Report as offensive
Profile Sergej O. S.
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 08
Posts: 123
Credit: 44,886
RAC: 0
Russia
Message 825661 - Posted: 1 Nov 2008, 10:38:46 UTC - in response to Message 825042.  
Last modified: 1 Nov 2008, 10:39:36 UTC

how to convert from positive ones?

Oh, I did found that
-z! = pi/sin(-z*pi)*(-z)/z!
ID: 825661 · Report as offensive
HTH
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 8 Jul 00
Posts: 691
Credit: 909,237
RAC: 0
Finland
Message 826126 - Posted: 2 Nov 2008, 16:54:41 UTC - in response to Message 825042.  

Hi!

By the way, you don't know how to calculate nagative factorials? Or how to convert from positive ones?


[tex]
\Gamma(-1/2) = \Gamma(-(1/2) + 1)/(-1/2) = -2\Gamma(1/2) = -2\sqrt{\pi}.
[/tex]

[tex]
\Gamma(-1.4) = \Gamma(-1.4+1)/-1.4 = -\Gamma(-0.4)/1.4 = -\Gamma(-0.4+1)/1.4(-0.4) = (1/(1.4*1.4))\Gamma(0.6) = 2.65929.
[/tex]

Hope This Help,
Henri Tapani Heinonen.

Manned mission to Mars in 2019 Petition <-- Sign this, please.
ID: 826126 · Report as offensive

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Non-integer factorials?


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.