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Profile marsinph
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Message 817693 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 18:26:18 UTC

I want and also participate as much as possible. But now, it is enough. There are ALWAYS up/down load problems.
I have a lot of computers working. But because Internet acces restriction, they have only a few minuts each to connect. And each time, there are problems. I will not stay beside 200 computers to try to upload all one by one manually.

Here what i receive the latest 12 hours. But server seem to work. No message.
12/10/2008 20:22:39||Access to reference site succeeded - project servers may be temporarily down.
12/10/2008 20:23:17|SETI@home|Started upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0
12/10/2008 20:23:20||Project communication failed: attempting access to reference site
12/10/2008 20:23:20|SETI@home|Temporarily failed upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0: system connect
12/10/2008 20:23:20|SETI@home|Backing off 1 min 52 sec on upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0
12/10/2008 20:23:21||Access to reference site succeeded - project servers may be temporarily down.

GOOD BYE SETI . I will go to a other project who is more stable

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Message 817701 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 18:38:35 UTC - in response to Message 817693.

I want and also participate as much as possible. But now, it is enough. There are ALWAYS up/down load problems.
I have a lot of computers working. But because Internet acces restriction, they have only a few minuts each to connect. And each time, there are problems. I will not stay beside 200 computers to try to upload all one by one manually.

Here what i receive the latest 12 hours. But server seem to work. No message.
12/10/2008 20:22:39||Access to reference site succeeded - project servers may be temporarily down.
12/10/2008 20:23:17|SETI@home|Started upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0
12/10/2008 20:23:20||Project communication failed: attempting access to reference site
12/10/2008 20:23:20|SETI@home|Temporarily failed upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0: system connect
12/10/2008 20:23:20|SETI@home|Backing off 1 min 52 sec on upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0
12/10/2008 20:23:21||Access to reference site succeeded - project servers may be temporarily down.

GOOD BYE SETI . I will go to a other project who is more stable


I wouldn't stand around and manually update 200 computers either - and neither should you. BOINC is designed to automatically retry on its own if you leave it. There's no need to micromanage it.

Its just too bad that you are upset over something so small - that will correct itself even if you let it. Perhaps if you didn't micromanage BOINC, you wouldn't be frustrated with SETI and leave. In fact, you wouldn't even know its down if you just let them do their thing.

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Message 817706 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 18:53:00 UTC - in response to Message 817693.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2008, 19:03:10 UTC

I want and also participate as much as possible. But now, it is enough. There are ALWAYS up/down load problems.
I have a lot of computers working. But because Internet acces restriction, they have only a few minuts each to connect. And each time, there are problems. I will not stay beside 200 computers to try to upload all one by one manually.

Here what i receive the latest 12 hours. But server seem to work. No message.
12/10/2008 20:22:39||Access to reference site succeeded - project servers may be temporarily down.
12/10/2008 20:23:17|SETI@home|Started upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0
12/10/2008 20:23:20||Project communication failed: attempting access to reference site
12/10/2008 20:23:20|SETI@home|Temporarily failed upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0: system connect
12/10/2008 20:23:20|SETI@home|Backing off 1 min 52 sec on upload of 17au08ad.15091.5794.16.8.171_0_0
12/10/2008 20:23:21||Access to reference site succeeded - project servers may be temporarily down.

GOOD BYE SETI . I will go to a other project who is more stable



Dexia and Aegon started having money problems, I thought about taking my money out, but decided to stick it out. My money is still safe, it just took pantience and time to really understand what was going on.

You can do the same with the SETI@HOME project, just wait a while and it will all be fine again. Just remember that nothing works at 100% all the time and that there are ups and downs in everything in life.

In as much as we would like you to still participate in this quest as the rest of us, this is still a project that is fueld by the 'hope' of finding other intelligent life in the Universe. Your time and effort in this project is completely voluntary.

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Message 817709 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 18:57:29 UTC - in response to Message 817693.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2008, 18:57:52 UTC


GOOD BYE SETI . I will go to a other project who is more stable

I really wish we could get away from the "100% availability at the servers is a requirement" myth.

BOINC is a system that consists of two parts: a server component and a client component. The system (client and server) work together. When the server is down, the client still works. When the server is back, the client does what it has been waiting to do.

The upload server is down. BOINC clients all over the world are holding work to upload when it comes back.

No big deal. Credit will still be granted, and if your wingman is slow, it'll be granted at the same time.

There is no difference on the server-side between 90% reliability and 99.999% in this case -- except cost.

Client and server, as a system, are above 5-nines reliability, because the client knows how to deal when the servers are down.
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Message 817712 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:04:25 UTC - in response to Message 817701.

OzzFan

Please, read carefully. I need to open firewall manually on each computer due to restriction on logical port due to firewall security at office (Ministry of....of Belgium.
The firewall is configured to allow connection to Seti at defined hours. But when it is not able to connect to Seti, the next "open port" will be one week later. Of course i can modify the restriction. But then it is the same as permanently open the port, and mis using of it. So I download a lot of WU to be sure to have enough work. But also when connection failed, all the WU are out of date, and I lose the credits !
So why to let run Seti for nothing ???
Thanks for your response
Philippe
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Message 817716 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:08:50 UTC - in response to Message 817709.

I agree with the fact that you do not have to stand by and upload manually. The BOINC/SETI server/client system is a very good system, and will do it's job if you let it.
I have been crunching SETI for over 9 years now and it has never failed me.

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Message 817717 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:09:35 UTC - in response to Message 817706.

VQ-2 Ghost
I fully agree with you.
But my problem is different.
I have the latest month about 3000 WU.(Yes three thousand work unit).
but because up/down load problems all are out of date. Read again the connection restriction at my office.
Tks for your response
Philippe
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Message 817718 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:11:39 UTC

When people have outbursts like this, it always reminds me of an '80s Australian rock band called "The Angels" that had a song where the crowd added their own lyrics between some of the lines. The line in the song was "Am I ever going to see your face again" and the crowd would chime in..."No way, get ******, ****** off!".......

The beauty of BOINC is that if one project has problems then you can keep your machines busy with other projects instead of watching them go idle. If any one person thinks a project really cares if they leave (unless you're Nez of course) then they need to seriously rethink their real contribution.

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Message 817721 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:16:07 UTC

What kind of computers you running?

Your RAC divided by 200 (computers) = 12.5 RAC per computer

Are they 50mghz computers or 75mghz?

Try running 2 - 2ghz computers and you will have the same RAC

LoL

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Message 817723 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:18:25 UTC - in response to Message 817712.

OzzFan

Please, read carefully. I need to open firewall manually on each computer due to restriction on logical port due to firewall security at office (Ministry of....of Belgium.
The firewall is configured to allow connection to Seti at defined hours. But when it is not able to connect to Seti, the next "open port" will be one week later. Of course i can modify the restriction. But then it is the same as permanently open the port, and mis using of it. So I download a lot of WU to be sure to have enough work. But also when connection failed, all the WU are out of date, and I lose the credits !
So why to let run Seti for nothing ???
Thanks for your response
Philippe


BOINC uses ports 80 and 443 to connect, why wouldn't these ports be open naturally for common web browsing?

At any rate, even if it is one week later, you can still contribute to the science the other 95% of the time the servers are up.

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Message 817747 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:37:54 UTC - in response to Message 817721.

Read what I have write about "out of date" !
There are Q6600 CPU for 30%!
Look my average around july 08 !!

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Message 817749 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 19:42:51 UTC - in response to Message 817693.

Now enough !
I have spend 2 hour to send 112 results.
I have something else to do.

No Boinc not use port 80 for up/down !!!
But 443 only. The security managment can not open permanently one port because hackers can come inside. It is the only reason.


I WAS one of the most supporter around my friends and me. Not more

Good luck to Seti. And hope to find something.


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Message 817764 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 20:13:15 UTC - in response to Message 817749.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2008, 20:13:56 UTC

You could try just to decrease SETI share and join to another project like Einstein@home to keep yur hosts busy with actual work now.
Later you could return it back if situation wll be improved.
But so radical decision as yours probably is wrong one (like most of radical decisions in the world ;) )

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Message 817765 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 20:13:36 UTC - in response to Message 817749.

Now enough !
I have spend 2 hour to send 112 results.
I have something else to do.

No Boinc not use port 80 for up/down !!!
But 443 only. The security managment can not open permanently one port because hackers can come inside. It is the only reason.


Hackers can come in through port 80 too. Port 443 is typically used for SSL web browsing, so I don't see why that port should be blocked too.

I WAS one of the most supporter around my friends and me. Not more

Good luck to Seti. And hope to find something.


Its real sad to see you this angry over nothing. Your unique situation prevents you from sending and receiving work every day, so it can only be done once a week. I understand that.

But the weekend problems have only been recent. The servers are still up 95% of the time the rest of the year. I don't see any reason to get so upset and leave over this. Turn in whatever workunits you have when you can and get more whenever possible. Who cares about the credits as long as you're helping the science?

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Message 817766 - Posted: 12 Oct 2008, 20:16:29 UTC - in response to Message 817747.

Read what I have write about "out of date" !
There are Q6600 CPU for 30%!
Look my average around july 08 !!


I can't look at your average around July 08 because you have your computers hidden.

Even if your work is out of date, all you have to do is beat the third person in the quorum to get your credits - so if the work is completed and simply waiting to upload, there's a good chance you'll beat the other person to the punch.

But even if you don't, I'm sure you donate plenty of good science to the project the other 95% of the time the servers are working OK. Sounds like a pretty good rate to me.

Regardless, it seems they have fixed the upload problem so hopefully your frustration will pass and you'll change your mind.

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Message 817842 - Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 0:23:18 UTC - in response to Message 817693.


I have a lot of computers working. But because Internet acces restriction, they have only a few minuts each to connect. And each time, there are problems. I will not stay beside 200 computers to try to upload all one by one manually.

GOOD BYE SETI . I will go to a other project who is more stable


May I suggest LHC@Home. Good stable project.

Might I suggest port triggering so the port is only open for a minute or so after your machine requests access.

Otherwise I think you just may have to come to the realization that your organization isn't going to allow participation.

Good luck.


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Message 817871 - Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 1:48:24 UTC - in response to Message 817842.

SETI could have backup servers in place to carry on until the main servers are ready to start again that is a way some commercial servers work such as at dynDNS they can supply back up servers until the SETI servers get back on line. dynDNS offered the service to me but since I am not a commercial server I host at my home computer I do not need their back up servers SETI could do something similar. I feel your pain Philippe.
Bye Paul

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Message 817902 - Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 2:58:22 UTC - in response to Message 817749.

The security managment can not open permanently one port because hackers can come inside.

Actually, they probably can open one port and one IP range and be quite safe, the SETI servers are at predictable addresses.

But that's not the point. BOINC projects do not actually need 99.999% reliability, and as others have pointed out, unless you feel some deep need to watch the computers, they'll do just fine without being watched.

... and for much bigger problems than we've had this weekend, I've done absolutely nothing, and BOINC has made contact and credit has been issued without my help.

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Message 817992 - Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 10:34:41 UTC - in response to Message 817871.

SETI could have backup servers in place to carry on until the main servers are ready to start again that is a way some commercial servers work such as at dynDNS they can supply back up servers until the SETI servers get back on line. dynDNS offered the service to me but since I am not a commercial server I host at my home computer I do not need their back up servers SETI could do something similar. I feel your pain Philippe.
Bye Paul


Backup servers would cost money to buy, build and maintain. Money is not something SETI has a whole lot of to go around.

The real answer is that SETI cannot guarantee 100% uptime, or even close to it. Expecting 100% uptime to work around our schedules isn't realistic and is only going to be a source of frustration.

As Gary said, based upon the restrictions in place, BOINC may not be something that can be contributed to by Philippe's company.

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Message 818027 - Posted: 13 Oct 2008, 13:57:08 UTC

If up time is a problem try Predictor, or DECS or TSP or Belgium Beer or Orbits or... Heck these projects are either down or infrequently up. Also remember that last week Europe had connection problems to the US.

If you want to contribute to something that wont have you losing work try a Project like CPDN. Nice big WU's that will wait for Trickles every week. WU is enormous and should take several months to finish.
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