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Profile hiamps
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Message 754043 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 14:57:40 UTC

About 20 years ago I met a guy in Phoenix that was all paranoid that the gas companies were trying to get him. He seemed like he was the ex engineer he said he was. He had this old 63 caddy that he had made some kind of valve that was screwed into this block below the carb on the Manifold. He showed me all these diagrams that he said the patent office wouldn't patant and claimed this valve would open as he accelerated letting in more air in the combustion chamber and that made his old V8 Caddy get over 70 miles per gallon...His daughter was hot and that was why I was there and didn't last long so I lost touch. Can something like this work?
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Message 754106 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 18:04:00 UTC - in response to Message 754043.

About 20 years ago I met a guy in Phoenix that was all paranoid that the gas companies were trying to get him. He seemed like he was the ex engineer he said he was. He had this old 63 caddy that he had made some kind of valve that was screwed into this block below the carb on the Manifold. He showed me all these diagrams that he said the patent office wouldn't patant and claimed this valve would open as he accelerated letting in more air in the combustion chamber and that made his old V8 Caddy get over 70 miles per gallon...His daughter was hot and that was why I was there and didn't last long so I lost touch. Can something like this work?

I'm no engineer but,I think it could work to some extent so long as it didnot let in to much air but as far as doing 70mpg in a V8 tank,cadilacs are not even today a small car(auto),no.could certainly improve fuel consumption though
think Ford leanburn engines(posibley not the same technology but the same thinking).
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Message 754120 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 19:15:36 UTC

We'll just have to find alternate forms of transportation, energy, etc. Maybe cars with batteries (big efficient ones that store for cloudy days) that charge with the Sun, riding the bike, walking, etc. I drive my car only about 2,000 miles a year. A couple years ago I was driving only about 700 miles a year. Before I retired in 1997 I was walking the 0.7 mile to work. Maybe we've already used up half the oil and natural gas in the ground and so we'll have to change, anyway. Then there is that extra kid; conception can be prevented.
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Message 754122 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 19:27:29 UTC - in response to Message 754043.
Last modified: 16 May 2008, 19:29:23 UTC

this valve would open as he accelerated letting in more air in the combustion chamber [snip] Can something like this work?

I installed a ram air kit on my car, not only does it go faster, it gets better gas milage too...

From 20 mpg to 30 mpg, which is a significant increase if I do say so my self... ;)
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Message 754397 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 10:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 754122.
Last modified: 17 May 2008, 10:26:27 UTC

this valve would open as he accelerated letting in more air in the combustion chamber [snip] Can something like this work?

I installed a ram air kit on my car, not only does it go faster, it gets better gas milage too...

From 20 mpg to 30 mpg, which is a significant increase if I do say so my self... ;)


What kind of car do you drive and what is the make of your ram Air kit? Super charging or turbo charging can get more power but only by burning more fuel. Modest mileage improvements can come with better breathing but only by having a less constrictive air filter or a less restrictive or adding a scaveging exhaust manifold. Burning colder air could also have a modest improvement. Car makers have every incentive to balance these factors optimally consistent with reliability and long engine life.

The 70 MPG Cadillac is not possible unless he only drove down hill.

Diesels get better mileage because: The fuel has more BTU's per gallon than gasoline . Higher compression allows greater heat and heat extraction (CARNOT CYCLE) from the fuel.

A small (say 1300 cc) turbo diesel might get 70 Mpg in a small, aerodynamic vehicle that weighed around 2000 pounds and still have acceptable performance

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Message 754705 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 20:10:15 UTC - in response to Message 754397.
Last modified: 17 May 2008, 20:11:33 UTC

What kind of car do you drive and what is the make of your ram Air kit?

The kind of car I drive is irrelevant, the ram air kit is homemade, and yes, I have a K&N high air flow system...

Superchargers and turbochargers don't necessarily have to burn more fuel, it's the compressed air that supplies the bigger bang... The extra fuel consumed is the result of 'more bangs per second'...

Not many people realize that cars actually run on air, not fuel... ;)

(But no, I don't buy the 70mpg Cadillac story either)
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Message 755465 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 3:45:33 UTC - in response to Message 754705.


Superchargers and turbochargers don't necessarily have to burn more fuel, it's the compressed air that supplies the bigger bang... The extra fuel consumed is the result of 'more bangs per second'...

Not many people realize that cars actually run on air, not fuel... ;)


Oh puh-lese explain this for me as I'd like to have my fuel tank removed
and the fuel pump, fuel lines and fuel injectors too. I mean like they're totally unneeded. Right? Yah, right!
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Message 755480 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 5:06:32 UTC - in response to Message 755465.
Last modified: 19 May 2008, 5:19:40 UTC

Oh puh-lese explain this for me

Well, the engine sucks air into a chamber (the more AIR the better), then a piston compresses the air, then an injector spits out some fuel, then a plug fires a spark, at which point there is a big boom...

Saying a car runs on fuel is about as accurate as saying a car runs on spark plugs... We just think it runs on fuel because that's the component that we have to provide ourselves on a regular basis...

Believe it or not, when you press your 'gas pedal' you are actually supplying more air, not more fuel... It would be better named, the 'air pedal'... ;)

(Just be thankful that we don't have to pay for that air... yet.)
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Message 755534 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 10:48:19 UTC

Calm down.

Energy is required to do work. Accelerating a car or keeping it at constant speed against air resistance, friction, pumping losses, electricity and cooling losses, heat cycle rejection and gravity does take energy.

Energy comes in the form of heat created by burning the hydro carbons in gasoline or Diesel fuel. There is no combustible energy in air. Air is mostly Nitrogen which is inert in it's elemental form.

Air ( the 15% of OXYGEN in air)) is required to support the combustion process. For gasoline the ratio is around 15 to one or so. The correct amount converts all of the CO to CO2. This is complete oxidation or combustion and is known as a stoichiometric process. Gasoline explodes over a somewhat narrow range of fuel to air ratio. Hydrogen is much more explosive as to what ratios will explode.

A measure of heat energy is the BTU. Gasoline has about 120,000 btus per gallon. Diesel is higher at 140,000 or so. Supercharging packs more fuel/air mixture into a cylinder and when demand is placed on an engine will burn more fuel per second than a naturally aspirated engine. Ram Air can help by providing a very mild boost in intake charge pressure and by keeping the intake air as cool as possible.

As to a K/N filter set-up I am skeptical over a substance that promises better filtration and less restriction-- paper is often the best air filtration medium.

When I was a kid I would take off my air cleaner to get more power--kind of a poor man's supercharger.

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Message 755539 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 11:02:26 UTC - in response to Message 755480.

Oh puh-lese explain this for me

Well, the engine sucks air into a chamber (the more AIR the better), then a piston compresses the air, then an injector spits out some fuel, then a plug fires a spark, at which point there is a big boom...

Saying a car runs on fuel is about as accurate as saying a car runs on spark plugs... We just think it runs on fuel because that's the component that we have to provide ourselves on a regular basis...

Believe it or not, when you press your 'gas pedal' you are actually supplying more air, not more fuel... It would be better named, the 'air pedal'... ;)

(Just be thankful that we don't have to pay for that air... yet.)


Jeff, yes a gasoline engine is throttled. A diesel engine is not, so in one sense you are right. In the good old days we had carburetors and the ACCELERATOR pump on the carburetor would give a healthy squirt of gas into the intake manifold when you stepped on the accelerator. The job of fuel injectors or carburetors is to measure the air flow (MASS-AIR SENSOR) and to supply the correct ratio of fuel to the incoming air. When you "open the throttle you are allowing more air to enter the engine which is "sucking" in the air from the pumping action of the engine. However without the added fuel to accommodate change in load on the engine; you would not run very well at all.

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Message 755555 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 11:52:52 UTC - in response to Message 755534.

As to a K/N filter set-up I am skeptical over a substance that promises better filtration and less restriction

I'm not sure why they would make such a claim... In my mind, less restriction will always lead to less filtration... But the way I see it, particles that small won't wreak too much havoc on the intake valves and will ultimately be incinerated during combustion... The added wear and tear would be negligible at best... ;)
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Message 755559 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 12:10:01 UTC - in response to Message 755539.

In the good old days we had carburetors

Yes, I remember them quite well...

Please don't get me started on the inefficiencies of a multi-port fuel injection system:

Every injector squirts at the same time, yet only one cylinder makes use of that squirt...

But on the plus side, fuel injection is much more efficient than carburetors where... ;)

(PS - I was just trying to keep it simple for the lady that presented the question.)
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Message 755634 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 16:41:54 UTC - in response to Message 755559.

In the good old days we had carburetors

Yes, I remember them quite well...

Please don't get me started on the inefficiencies of a multi-port fuel injection system:

Every injector squirts at the same time, yet only one cylinder makes use of that squirt...

But on the plus side, fuel injection is much more efficient than carburetors where... ;)

(PS - I was just trying to keep it simple for the lady that presented the question.)


Unfortunately you were simply wrong.

Never take for granted that a woman doesn't know about the operation of internal combustion engines.
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Message 755736 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 21:03:44 UTC - in response to Message 755634.

Never take for granted that a woman doesn't know about the operation of internal combustion engines.

I never take anything for granted... I've met plenty of women who are quite handy with a tool kit...

Maybe I should have said, 'I just try to keep things simple, period'... ;)
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Message 755850 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 0:36:04 UTC
Last modified: 20 May 2008, 0:37:47 UTC

btw, gas prices still suck
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Message 755984 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 10:05:02 UTC
Last modified: 20 May 2008, 10:14:41 UTC

DADDIO has experience with this vexing problem. I did this DADDIO comic in Aug of 2006 never dreaming that these prices would come to pass. Looks just about what many of us will be facing if we drive for a summer vacation this year.

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Message 756237 - Posted: 21 May 2008, 0:54:51 UTC - in response to Message 755984.

Hahahahahaha! I'm laughing at the invisibility of it all.
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