Why the time to contact for new WUs doesnt work

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Profile gregh

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Message 28865 - Posted: 22 Sep 2004, 4:08:44 UTC

I had wondered why, no matter what number of days I set it to, my computer doesnt download WUs. I have maybe a few days left but I had it set for 40 - now 20.

When I updated a few minutes ago, then got one of my BOINCs to update, it said it General prefs were changed BUT that it was using the prefs for HOME. As there is no "HOME" category any longer (there was, once and I did use and set it up separately when Boinc web page had it), I would bet that is why my BOINC doesnt act the way it should

Greg.
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Message 28872 - Posted: 22 Sep 2004, 4:21:12 UTC

This thread was pointed out to me, so I'd like to pass on the favor:

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3888

That will help you fix your preference problem.


<a>
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Message 28984 - Posted: 22 Sep 2004, 13:21:43 UTC - in response to Message 28872.  

> This thread was pointed out to me, so I'd like to pass on the favor:
>
> http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3888
>
> That will help you fix your preference problem.
>
>
> <a>
>

Thanks for the reply but no that isnt a fix to the problem. All that was present in my file so the problem, as I stated, still remains correct. I wish what you showed WAS the answer but it has nothing to do with it unfortunately. I am using HOME prefs as told to me by BOINC but on the BOINC web site, there is no category for HOME prefs and that is where the problem is.
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Message 29046 - Posted: 22 Sep 2004, 16:58:19 UTC - in response to Message 28984.  

gregh,


> Thanks for the reply but no that isnt a fix to the problem. All that was
> present in my file so the problem, as I stated, still remains correct. I wish
> what you showed WAS the answer but it has nothing to do with it unfortunately.
> I am using HOME prefs as told to me by BOINC but on the BOINC web site, there
> is no category for HOME prefs and that is where the problem is.

When you go to "Your Account", click on preferences "view/edit" and then down at the bottom there is a set of 3 links that will create the separate preferences. Once created, you can then edit them to make them different.

Because of some other problem, these settings may not persist and that is the issue that the other thread is talking about.

Right now for the WOrk Manager's Buffer size there are two versions of that setting, the "old" which had a high and a low, and the "new" which has only the low, with the high being set to two times the low setting. Defaults then are 4 days to 8 days of work. I would not raise the setting above 7 right now because of the deadlines for most of the work issued is in the two week timeframe.

If you are in multiple projects the default setting is probably more than we will need, though if you have a long period of time where you might be out of town setting it a little higher may be a good choice.

I am still not sure we understand what the problem is that you are having ....

My slightly dated directions are available, as are almost all pages of the web site in the Web Site Owner's Manual ...
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Message 29131 - Posted: 22 Sep 2004, 21:50:31 UTC - in response to Message 29046.  

> gregh,
>
>
> > Thanks for the reply but no that isnt a fix to the problem. All that was
> > present in my file so the problem, as I stated, still remains correct. I
> wish
> > what you showed WAS the answer but it has nothing to do with it
> unfortunately.
> > I am using HOME prefs as told to me by BOINC but on the BOINC web site,
> there
> > is no category for HOME prefs and that is where the problem is.
>
> When you go to "Your Account", click on preferences "view/edit" and then down
> at the bottom there is a set of 3 links that will create the separate
> preferences. Once created, you can then edit them to make them different.
>
> Because of some other problem, these settings may not persist and that is the
> issue that the other thread is talking about.
>
> Right now for the WOrk Manager's Buffer size there are two versions of that
> setting, the "old" which had a high and a low, and the "new" which has only
> the low, with the high being set to two times the low setting. Defaults then
> are 4 days to 8 days of work. I would not raise the setting above 7 right now
> because of the deadlines for most of the work issued is in the two week
> timeframe.
>
> If you are in multiple projects the default setting is probably more than we
> will need, though if you have a long period of time where you might be out of
> town setting it a little higher may be a good choice.
>
> I am still not sure we understand what the problem is that you are having
> ....
>
> My slightly dated directions are available, as are almost all pages of the web
> site in the Web Site Owner's Manual ...
> <p>
> For BOINC Documentaion: Click Me!
>
>
>

>

Thanks once more but that isnt the problem. The problem isnt here on my computer. To prove the point, a week or so back I reset the project on 2 of my machines and they downloaded a new batch, each then uploaded as finished and downloaded for a day or 2 until the original 40 days I have set was reached. Once reached, the settings on the web page are totally ignored. I estimate I have 2 days of WUs on each machine at the most. Even if, somehow, each separate machine were being lumped together and seen as 1 machine, that still doesnt account for the fact that I have 40 days set and it isnt working out that way.

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Message 29132 - Posted: 22 Sep 2004, 21:51:42 UTC

OK made it start to download WUs now. I reset to 100 days. That's the only way to do it - keep upping the day number.
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Message 29140 - Posted: 22 Sep 2004, 22:15:59 UTC
Last modified: 22 Sep 2004, 22:36:19 UTC

Why would you set to "connect/contact server" every
100 days? Do you want 100 days of work? are you trying
to get as many wu's as you can? were you not getting any wu's?
do you have a "credit monkey on your back"?

IMHO hoarding wu's is childish and selfish, other folks will
have to wait to be credited, some folks want instant gratification
and can not wait to be credited...

When the server see's you have hit your low cache water mark
you will get more wu's.

I have my prefs set to 10 days...sometimes
less is more..edit default is 0.1 days not 10 days my mistake..

No malice intended....just my $0.02 worth

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Message 29281 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 7:03:05 UTC - in response to Message 28865.  

> I had wondered why, no matter what number of days I set it to, my computer
> doesnt download WUs. I have maybe a few days left but I had it set for 40 -
> now 20.
>


OK, perhaps I am the confused one (wouldn't be the first time), but if you are telling the system to give you anything more then 14 days worth of work are you not risking the work unit passing the reporting deadline before you crunch it, and therefore returning more or less useless data as they have already re-issued that wu to someone else?


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Message 29298 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 9:20:56 UTC - in response to Message 29140.  

> Why would you set to "connect/contact server" every
> 100 days? Do you want 100 days of work? are you trying
> to get as many wu's as you can? were you not getting any wu's?
> do you have a "credit monkey on your back"?
>
> IMHO hoarding wu's is childish and selfish, other folks will
> have to wait to be credited, some folks want instant gratification
> and can not wait to be credited...
>
> When the server see's you have hit your low cache water mark
> you will get more wu's.
>
> I have my prefs set to 10 days...sometimes
> less is more..edit default is 0.1 days not 10 days my mistake..

Oh wake UP you fool!

Read the rest of the thread and you will SEE why. Honestly, if you cant be bothered reading and comprehending, why bother letting others know you dont understand?
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Message 29299 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 9:22:04 UTC - in response to Message 29281.  

> > I had wondered why, no matter what number of days I set it to, my
> computer
> > doesnt download WUs. I have maybe a few days left but I had it set for 40
> -
> > now 20.
> >
>
>
> OK, perhaps I am the confused one (wouldn't be the first time), but if you are
> telling the system to give you anything more then 14 days worth of work are
> you not risking the work unit passing the reporting deadline before you crunch
> it, and therefore returning more or less useless data as they have already
> re-issued that wu to someone else?
>

The only real times I have passed the report deadlines have been when I was working on things on my own computer or there was some sort of problem at Boinc. Unfortunately, sometimes, either situation is unavoidable.
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Message 29303 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 9:27:51 UTC

Ok that settles it for me, I'm setting my Preferences to 1000 Days. Theres no way in Hell I'm going to let somebody get more WU's than me... ;)
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Message 29304 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 9:29:17 UTC - in response to Message 29303.  

> Ok that settles it for me, I'm setting my Preferences to 1000 Days. Theres no
> way in Hell I'm going to let somebody get more WU's than me... ;)
>
>

Do that - seeing you didnt understand why this is happening. Sigh....

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Message 29308 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 10:02:03 UTC

Do that - seeing you didnt understand why this is happening. Sigh....
==========

Hey thanks for the advice, I did that & now I have 785 WU's on every one of my PC's, I guess I'll just have to Dump 700 of them off each PC when the Deadline Hits and get 785 more on each PC ... Kewl, I'll always have work this way...
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Message 29314 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 10:22:22 UTC - in response to Message 29298.  

> Oh wake UP you fool!
>
> Read the rest of the thread and you will SEE why. Honestly, if you cant be
> bothered reading and comprehending, why bother letting others know you dont
> understand?

Well, I have. Several times. And I will admit that I am as confused as the person you, ahem, lambasted.

You give a partial description of a percieved problem, then tell us we don't understand. When I look at my computers Work Manager's Work Buffer I do see that at times I may not have what I believe are enough work units. But as I have let the system run, it does, over time, contact projects and download new work.

The intent of all of us here who have answered your plea for help is to try to understand exactly what you believe BOINC is not doing, and why you think it is not doing what you think it should be doing. The best I can make out is that somehow you want some quantity of work for you machine. And that you do not see that quantity. So, you fiddle with the preferences setting and have to set it to some very high number to get what you want.

So, if you would like help ... don't castigate the helpers or the helpee won't get help.

It would be nice if you could write up a clear explanation of what you get when you don't think the system is responsive to your system preferences.

If necessary, e-mail me image captures of the screen and I can post them on my site and provide links to them so we can see what is the before and the after... To get to my e-mail address, click the picture, click on any mailbox ...
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Message 29319 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 11:12:38 UTC

@gregh...

Obviously you're frustrated, but to call me a fool was a bit
harsh. When you posted my reply you left out the part
"no malice intended"

I don't know anyone here personally, but I know them from
their posts, we are kind people, we try to help...

@PDB....Thanks my friend.
@PB....Your humour always has me laughing...it's good for the soul.

Joe....as always reporting "kindly" from Chongqing China

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Message 29339 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 12:43:44 UTC - in response to Message 29317.  

> > OK made it start to download WUs now. I reset to 100 days. That's the
> only way
> > to do it - keep upping the day number.
> >
> Gregh, I'll try to make this simple for you.
> Setting it for 100 days doesn't just give you 100 days of work.
> By setting it to 100 days you are asking your SETI client to only
> connect to the server for new work every 100 days.
> Do you only want to get new work every 100 days?
> I have mine set for every two days and get all the work I need
> to constantly crunch 24/7.
>
>
>

Actually, the 'Connect to Server' is the same as a low water mark. If you set it to 2 days, it will download a minimum of 2 days work and a maximum of 2X that setting or 4 days. It will automatically connect to the scheduler when the low water mark is hit. Remember also, that the equation for this also that into account the benchmark and the estimated completion time is used as a criteria. There is also a maximum number of wu's allowed per day per computer, which is 50. Once you get 50 the scheduler will not allow any additional to that computer.

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Message 29349 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 13:12:03 UTC - in response to Message 29314.  

> > Oh wake UP you fool!
> >
> > Read the rest of the thread and you will SEE why. Honestly, if you cant
> be
> > bothered reading and comprehending, why bother letting others know you
> dont
> > understand?
>
> Well, I have. Several times. And I will admit that I am as confused as the
> person you, ahem, lambasted.
>

Then it is possible you need to use comprehension skills then. It is all there.
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Message 29352 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 13:16:34 UTC - in response to Message 29319.  

> @gregh...
>
> Obviously you're frustrated, but to call me a fool was a bit
> harsh. When you posted my reply you left out the part
> "no malice intended"
>

It was no more harsh than the idiotic way in which you approached me. You decided to assume one thing without evidence and obviously without understanding.

I didnt once attempt to hog WUs. All I said was I set to 40 days because that is my preference but since processing started, I am down to about 2 days left at most and obviously that means that the 40 day setting wasnt working. So, I upped it to 100 days and yes I will get - when they are flowing - some more credits BUT the amount that SHOULD be sent and the amount that is requested are two different things. I wont get 100 days worth. I will probably double to 4 days worth of credits.

I think that aptly proves my point that it doesnt matter the figure you put in preferences to contact the server. It doesnt work based on what YOU want. If you want it close to what YOU want, you have to set to extreme highs. I just picked a higher number which SAYS 100 days but in fact is about 4 days worth. Make sense to you? It doesnt to me yet that is approximately how it works. Eg, 4% of the total you asked for.

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Message 29354 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 13:18:15 UTC - in response to Message 29339.  

> > > OK made it start to download WUs now. I reset to 100 days. That's
> the
> > only way
> > > to do it - keep upping the day number.
> > >
> > Gregh, I'll try to make this simple for you.
> > Setting it for 100 days doesn't just give you 100 days of work.
> > By setting it to 100 days you are asking your SETI client to only
> > connect to the server for new work every 100 days.
> > Do you only want to get new work every 100 days?
> > I have mine set for every two days and get all the work I need
> > to constantly crunch 24/7.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Actually, the 'Connect to Server' is the same as a low water mark. If you set
> it to 2 days, it will download a minimum of 2 days work and a maximum
> of 2X that setting or 4 days. It will automatically connect to the scheduler
> when the low water mark is hit. Remember also, that the equation for this
> also that into account the benchmark and the estimated completion time is used
> as a criteria. There is also a maximum number of wu's allowed per day per
> computer, which is 50. Once you get 50 the scheduler will not allow any
> additional to that computer.
>

It's fairly obvious that you havent checked your preferences setting in a while.

"Low Water Mark" disappeared 2 weeks ago that I know about and it could be longer than that.
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Message 29364 - Posted: 23 Sep 2004, 13:47:38 UTC - in response to Message 29354.  


> It's fairly obvious that you havent checked your preferences setting in a
> while.
>
> "Low Water Mark" disappeared 2 weeks ago that I know about and it could be
> longer than that.
>
>

Sorry, you are wrong! The low water mark is still there, it is the high water mark that disappeared.

Contact server every x days is the low water mark and 2x that is the high water mark.

If I set the low water mark at 4 days BOINC will try to ensure that there is between 4 and 8 days work. This does not mean you will get 4 to 8 days work in one go.

This is only my impression.

This is the first post I have done. I am not after credits although it does give a bit of a lift to see them climb. It does give the PC something to do and a greater value. Other people are interested in credits and that is up to them.

What I am trying to say is that over the last couple of weeks there have been one or two rather "heated exchanges". That is not what this is about. Science is about patience and trying to understand!.

It is time to be civil to each other. The answers may come easier. Can I suggest that perhaps you explain exactly what you are getting and what you are trying to achieve and also read Paul Bucks documentation carfully!!!
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Message boards : Number crunching : Why the time to contact for new WUs doesnt work


 
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