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danceswithmicrochips
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Message 704689 - Posted: 27 Jan 2008, 2:07:43 UTC

I wish to wake up running SETI Classic and realize that BOINC was all a dream sequence...

Seriously, it would be great if someone took SETI Classic out of mothballs, updated it and let us dump this BOINC garbage once and for all.

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Message 704692 - Posted: 27 Jan 2008, 2:25:30 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2008, 2:26:03 UTC

It isn't going to happen. SETI@Home ran out of funding and would have closed down if BOINC didn't come alone and provide new funding.

Besides, the BOINC client does more than the SETI Classic client ever did. You can read here for more reasons why SETI Classic closed down.

Bottom line is, if SETI were to disengage itself from BOINC, SETI itself would fold and there would be no more search.
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Message 704732 - Posted: 27 Jan 2008, 4:46:14 UTC - in response to Message 704692.

It isn't going to happen. SETI@Home ran out of funding and would have closed down if BOINC didn't come alone and provide new funding.

Besides, the BOINC client does more than the SETI Classic client ever did. You can read here for more reasons why SETI Classic closed down.

Bottom line is, if SETI were to disengage itself from BOINC, SETI itself would fold and there would be no more search.

I agree. It just would not be feasible to get rid of BOINC and reimplimeant SETI@Home classic.
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Message 704751 - Posted: 27 Jan 2008, 5:38:26 UTC

This topic comes up every so often.

As OzzFan stated, Classic was out of money. Classic would have closed without ever coming back if there was not a request for BOINC to be created. SETI BOINC was given some money from BOINC development to have a test software as it was being developed. Now it's supported by user and business donations. Currently SETI itself does not get grants (although the team keeps filling out paperwork to try to get grants). Certain projects get grants, like Astropulse got a grant, again this is a separated piece and does not equate to SETI itself.

BOINC was created out of a necessity for multiple projects to allow to distribute their needs in a single software. There are several dozen projects now, all because of the BOINC infrastructure.

I personally enjoy BOINC. It gives me more sense of doing something. Classic was a pretty screensaver and not much else to me. If Classic were still around, I may not even be crunching right now.


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Message 706862 - Posted: 1 Feb 2008, 20:21:35 UTC - in response to Message 704751.

Same here. I think BOINC is outstanding.
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Message 720352 - Posted: 1 Mar 2008, 13:58:46 UTC

@All

I can`t say that i agree,i enjoyed the classic SETI and i was crunching back in 1999 (since lost account so had to rejoin) but as everyone says progress has to happen and BOINC is the progress as far as SETI is concerned. SO BOINC is the future? then surely it should be updated so it`s not so imposing on your desktop and maybe a nice skining app would be nice so i can design a decent skin for it....anyone for a classic seti skin? LOL

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Message 720383 - Posted: 1 Mar 2008, 15:30:53 UTC - in response to Message 720352.

I can`t say that i agree,i enjoyed the classic SETI and i was crunching back in 1999 (since lost account so had to rejoin) but as everyone says progress has to happen and BOINC is the progress as far as SETI is concerned. SO BOINC is the future? then surely it should be updated so it`s not so imposing on your desktop and maybe a nice skining app would be nice so i can design a decent skin for it....anyone for a classic seti skin? LOL


Actually, BOINC's Simple View (A.K.A. the "Simple GUI") supports skinning, though I haven't found too many skins for it.

As for BOINC being "imposing" on your desktop, how do you mean? It sits in a little tray icon in your System Notification Area and that's it. BOINC's job is to launch science applications, and it does so at the lowest priority of the OS it's running on. Can't really get any less imposing than that.
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Message 720418 - Posted: 1 Mar 2008, 17:16:30 UTC - in response to Message 720383.

I can`t say that i agree,i enjoyed the classic SETI and i was crunching back in 1999 (since lost account so had to rejoin) but as everyone says progress has to happen and BOINC is the progress as far as SETI is concerned. SO BOINC is the future? then surely it should be updated so it`s not so imposing on your desktop and maybe a nice skining app would be nice so i can design a decent skin for it....anyone for a classic seti skin? LOL


Actually, BOINC's Simple View (A.K.A. the "Simple GUI") supports skinning, though I haven't found too many skins for it.

As for BOINC being "imposing" on your desktop, how do you mean? It sits in a little tray icon in your System Notification Area and that's it. BOINC's job is to launch science applications, and it does so at the lowest priority of the OS it's running on. Can't really get any less imposing than that.


You know what i can`t be bothered to argue the point,i was merely stating the
fact there is another side and not everyone has to agree,dancingwithmicrochips and my opinion counts obviously counts for nowt,off to join a friendly forum

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Message 720447 - Posted: 1 Mar 2008, 18:06:22 UTC - in response to Message 720418.
Last modified: 1 Mar 2008, 18:14:56 UTC

I can`t say that i agree,i enjoyed the classic SETI and i was crunching back in 1999 (since lost account so had to rejoin) but as everyone says progress has to happen and BOINC is the progress as far as SETI is concerned. SO BOINC is the future? then surely it should be updated so it`s not so imposing on your desktop and maybe a nice skining app would be nice so i can design a decent skin for it....anyone for a classic seti skin? LOL


Actually, BOINC's Simple View (A.K.A. the "Simple GUI") supports skinning, though I haven't found too many skins for it.

As for BOINC being "imposing" on your desktop, how do you mean? It sits in a little tray icon in your System Notification Area and that's it. BOINC's job is to launch science applications, and it does so at the lowest priority of the OS it's running on. Can't really get any less imposing than that.


You know what i can`t be bothered to argue the point,i was merely stating the
fact there is another side and not everyone has to agree,dancingwithmicrochips and my opinion counts obviously counts for nowt,off to join a friendly forum


I'm sorry to hear that. I didn't realize I was being unfriendly by trying to have a discussion about this. Sure, not everyone has to agree, but we can certainly share ideas to improve the program. Saying that, of course your opinion counts. If you're willing to speak up and voice your support for something, shouldn't you be willing to help explain why you feel that way? Isn't the free exchange of ideas what helps us make the world a better place?

Maybe your perspective is based upon a misunderstanding on how BOINC is supposed to work, or maybe you have a great idea to improve the program to make it easier for everyone. How are we to know unless we discuss and share ideas?

Simply throwing an opinion 'out there' and not be willing to elaborate is certainly not helpful at all, and if anything, actually degrades your own opinion since we are more apt to simply say "ok, whatever" and ignore it if you aren't willing to explain it to us.

I'm sorry that you can't be bothered and that you don't like to discuss things. But I certainly hope we may be able to change your mind if you're willing to be open-minded enough.
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Message 720514 - Posted: 1 Mar 2008, 22:34:28 UTC - in response to Message 720447.

I can`t say that i agree,i enjoyed the classic SETI and i was crunching back in 1999 (since lost account so had to rejoin) but as everyone says progress has to happen and BOINC is the progress as far as SETI is concerned. SO BOINC is the future? then surely it should be updated so it`s not so imposing on your desktop and maybe a nice skining app would be nice so i can design a decent skin for it....anyone for a classic seti skin? LOL


Actually, BOINC's Simple View (A.K.A. the "Simple GUI") supports skinning, though I haven't found too many skins for it.

As for BOINC being "imposing" on your desktop, how do you mean? It sits in a little tray icon in your System Notification Area and that's it. BOINC's job is to launch science applications, and it does so at the lowest priority of the OS it's running on. Can't really get any less imposing than that.


You know what i can`t be bothered to argue the point,i was merely stating the
fact there is another side and not everyone has to agree,dancingwithmicrochips and my opinion counts obviously counts for nowt,off to join a friendly forum


I'm sorry to hear that. I didn't realize I was being unfriendly by trying to have a discussion about this. Sure, not everyone has to agree, but we can certainly share ideas to improve the program. Saying that, of course your opinion counts. If you're willing to speak up and voice your support for something, shouldn't you be willing to help explain why you feel that way? Isn't the free exchange of ideas what helps us make the world a better place?

Maybe your perspective is based upon a misunderstanding on how BOINC is supposed to work, or maybe you have a great idea to improve the program to make it easier for everyone. How are we to know unless we discuss and share ideas?

Simply throwing an opinion 'out there' and not be willing to elaborate is certainly not helpful at all, and if anything, actually degrades your own opinion since we are more apt to simply say "ok, whatever" and ignore it if you aren't willing to explain it to us.

I'm sorry that you can't be bothered and that you don't like to discuss things. But I certainly hope we may be able to change your mind if you're willing to be open-minded enough.


OK fair enough!! but i still say classic SETI was better imho,yes i`ve read the
reasons as for why seti moved to BOINC,i do understand progress is important for
a project to survive and also money is the route to all evil. Back in 99 when i
first used SETI it was a small compact little utility that sat in the backgound looking pretty busy crunching data,now BOINC is an oversized GUI either in simple or advanced and has a really imho pointless grahpics display! why do we need it? never needed it in classic! yeah i understand that you have the option not to use these functions,to me it`s wasted code that could of been used to get a little more out of it.

I only used SETI for 2 years,granted i left the net and came back 6 years later.
now i have 100+ credits that i can`t retrive from classic seti because the ole grey matter won`t allow me to remember an old e-mail address from 6 years ago...tough luck i know. So the question still needs to answered,are we ever going to have a skinning app for BOINC? if we have to live with it then at least let us make it our own.

Just to make u laugh OzzFan ---> Any chance of a version for Amiga LMAO
SETI on a Classic Amiga now there`s a thought! i`ll happily keep downloading
and uploading the Workunits trying to build up my credit again and do my bit for
mankind as really does it really matter what we use,was just looking forward to
using Classic SETI again that`s all.

Just a quick question though to those who are good with sums....A Accelerated Amiga would run @ 40MHZ now how long would it take for it to complete a workunit?

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Message 720527 - Posted: 1 Mar 2008, 23:11:23 UTC - in response to Message 720514.

I can`t say that i agree,i enjoyed the classic SETI and i was crunching back in 1999 (since lost account so had to rejoin) but as everyone says progress has to happen and BOINC is the progress as far as SETI is concerned. SO BOINC is the future? then surely it should be updated so it`s not so imposing on your desktop and maybe a nice skining app would be nice so i can design a decent skin for it....anyone for a classic seti skin? LOL


Actually, BOINC's Simple View (A.K.A. the "Simple GUI") supports skinning, though I haven't found too many skins for it.

As for BOINC being "imposing" on your desktop, how do you mean? It sits in a little tray icon in your System Notification Area and that's it. BOINC's job is to launch science applications, and it does so at the lowest priority of the OS it's running on. Can't really get any less imposing than that.


You know what i can`t be bothered to argue the point,i was merely stating the
fact there is another side and not everyone has to agree,dancingwithmicrochips and my opinion counts obviously counts for nowt,off to join a friendly forum


I'm sorry to hear that. I didn't realize I was being unfriendly by trying to have a discussion about this. Sure, not everyone has to agree, but we can certainly share ideas to improve the program. Saying that, of course your opinion counts. If you're willing to speak up and voice your support for something, shouldn't you be willing to help explain why you feel that way? Isn't the free exchange of ideas what helps us make the world a better place?

Maybe your perspective is based upon a misunderstanding on how BOINC is supposed to work, or maybe you have a great idea to improve the program to make it easier for everyone. How are we to know unless we discuss and share ideas?

Simply throwing an opinion 'out there' and not be willing to elaborate is certainly not helpful at all, and if anything, actually degrades your own opinion since we are more apt to simply say "ok, whatever" and ignore it if you aren't willing to explain it to us.

I'm sorry that you can't be bothered and that you don't like to discuss things. But I certainly hope we may be able to change your mind if you're willing to be open-minded enough.


OK fair enough!! but i still say classic SETI was better imho,yes i`ve read the
reasons as for why seti moved to BOINC,i do understand progress is important for
a project to survive and also money is the route to all evil. Back in 99 when i
first used SETI it was a small compact little utility that sat in the backgound looking pretty busy crunching data,now BOINC is an oversized GUI either in simple or advanced and has a really imho pointless grahpics display! why do we need it? never needed it in classic! yeah i understand that you have the option not to use these functions,to me it`s wasted code that could of been used to get a little more out of it.

I only used SETI for 2 years,granted i left the net and came back 6 years later.
now i have 100+ credits that i can`t retrive from classic seti because the ole grey matter won`t allow me to remember an old e-mail address from 6 years ago...tough luck i know. So the question still needs to answered,are we ever going to have a skinning app for BOINC? if we have to live with it then at least let us make it our own.

Just to make u laugh OzzFan ---> Any chance of a version for Amiga LMAO
SETI on a Classic Amiga now there`s a thought! i`ll happily keep downloading
and uploading the Workunits trying to build up my credit again and do my bit for
mankind as really does it really matter what we use,was just looking forward to
using Classic SETI again that`s all.

Just a quick question though to those who are good with sums....A Accelerated Amiga would run @ 40MHZ now how long would it take for it to complete a workunit?


If you install as a service and do not say to start (the UI) automatically, you get no UI at all unless you want to start it later. This gets you back to similar to the Classic Commandline version that I believe you want.

As far as the Amiga port goes, both BOINC and SETI are open source. Let us know how you do on the conversion. I do know that 45 MHz Pentium Windows machines do finish in time.

There are instructions for skinning the simple UI if you want. You can also get a different UI (BOINC View) to replace the UI that BOINC comes with. Or, if you have the ability, you can write your own.
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Message 720731 - Posted: 2 Mar 2008, 9:54:30 UTC

Amiga,

BOINC itself was created for the need of many projects to run under a single hosting program. This development came from a lot of input from various projects needs. Since BOINC needed a testbed program, SETI was that, and they wanted to design a program that used a lot of the features to show it off to other projects interested in the BOINC program. The need was created and fulfilled. So that is why it is what it is. Since SETI Classic would have gone away anyway (no one was investing in it), BOINC gave them the ability to stick around. SETI is still on a shoestring budget, and could go away at any time, but BOINC would stay because of the other projects that are using it.

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Message 720859 - Posted: 2 Mar 2008, 15:52:25 UTC

@John Mcleod VII

Ah man i wish i could code,though technically you shouldn`t need to since Amiga can run Linux (be it a ported version) hmmm i wonder if this would work.

@Pooh Bear 27

Shame goverments don`t give these projects a donation (or budget) i guess the universe and all it`s wonders are less of a priority now,even NASA has it`s budget cut,maybe they should save a few billion and develop less weapons to kill each other with.
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Message 720874 - Posted: 2 Mar 2008, 16:17:21 UTC - in response to Message 720859.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2008, 16:17:36 UTC

Shame goverments don`t give these projects a donation (or budget)

They do, through the NSF. But to be able to get a grant there, your project has to be interesting, appealing and eventually showing results. Seti's grant ran out, it wasn't renewed.

BOINC's grant is renewed for the moment.
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Message 721851 - Posted: 4 Mar 2008, 7:57:12 UTC - in response to Message 720859.

Ah man i wish i could code,though technically you shouldn`t need to since Amiga can run Linux (be it a ported version) hmmm i wonder if this would work.

If it's a PowerPC based Amiga, the Linux PPC ports of BOINC and SETI should work on the Amgia with Linux, too. Linux PPC ports are available from the BOINC and SETI third party site : http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/DownloadOther
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Message 721941 - Posted: 4 Mar 2008, 13:45:13 UTC - in response to Message 721851.

Ah man i wish i could code,though technically you shouldn`t need to since Amiga can run Linux (be it a ported version) hmmm i wonder if this would work.

If it's a PowerPC based Amiga, the Linux PPC ports of BOINC and SETI should work on the Amgia with Linux, too. Linux PPC ports are available from the BOINC and SETI third party site : http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/DownloadOther


@Dotsch

Amiga PPC! I wish :) Nah mate it`s just an Accelerated Amiga taking it to
40MHZ,i know this can run a ported version of Linux but it`s just a pain to
install,not sure if BOINC will be compatable with it either not to mention how
long it would take to do a workunit running @ 40MHZ.

Here`s some figures

Amiga@40MHZ is 36.5 times slower than the computer i use now,it takes me 1.05 days to complete a unit on my laptop,would i be correct in assuming that the Amiga would take roughly 37 days to crunch 1 unit? sorry was never that good @ maths (it`s why my coding skills are limited to Basic). if i am correct in my assumption then it would never complete before the deadline expired.
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Message 722039 - Posted: 4 Mar 2008, 22:31:01 UTC - in response to Message 721941.

Ah man i wish i could code,though technically you shouldn`t need to since Amiga can run Linux (be it a ported version) hmmm i wonder if this would work.

If it's a PowerPC based Amiga, the Linux PPC ports of BOINC and SETI should work on the Amgia with Linux, too. Linux PPC ports are available from the BOINC and SETI third party site : http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/DownloadOther


@Dotsch

Amiga PPC! I wish :) Nah mate it`s just an Accelerated Amiga taking it to
40MHZ,i know this can run a ported version of Linux but it`s just a pain to
install,not sure if BOINC will be compatable with it either not to mention how
long it would take to do a workunit running @ 40MHZ.

Here`s some figures

Amiga@40MHZ is 36.5 times slower than the computer i use now,it takes me 1.05 days to complete a unit on my laptop,would i be correct in assuming that the Amiga would take roughly 37 days to crunch 1 unit? sorry was never that good @ maths (it`s why my coding skills are limited to Basic). if i am correct in my assumption then it would never complete before the deadline expired.


The calculation is OK as far as it goes. However, there are a couple of remaining questions. What is the bus width of the Amiga vs your current computer? Does the Amiga have a math co-processor? You can get an approximate ratio for the former question by multiplying the time by the ratio. For example, if your current machine has a 32 bit bus, and the Amiga has an 8 bit bus, multiply your result by 4. If the Amiga does not have a math co-processor, multiply the Amiga estimate by about 1000.

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Message 722245 - Posted: 5 Mar 2008, 8:16:46 UTC - in response to Message 721941.

I think too, that the 68x00 CPUs are to slow to complete a WU within a deadline. In my opinion it is not worth to try to port to the 68x000 CPUs.
Also, the computed signals in the current SETI Enhanced Multibeam application is a lot of more sensitiver (factor 5 to 10 ??) and so it needs more time to compute, compared with SETI classic.
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Message 722264 - Posted: 5 Mar 2008, 10:47:50 UTC - in response to Message 722245.

I think too, that the 68x00 CPUs are to slow to complete a WU within a deadline. In my opinion it is not worth to try to port to the 68x000 CPUs.
Also, the computed signals in the current SETI Enhanced Multibeam application is a lot of more sensitiver (factor 5 to 10 ??) and so it needs more time to compute, compared with SETI classic.


Ok guys thanks for all your help but i`m dropping this subject now because
we seemed to have gone way off topic. Amiga unless it`s a PPC Amiga won`t cope.

Hmmm i got a old 500MHZ Comp somewhere that i`ll have to dig out and use to crunch data also,just wanted to make use of the Amiga rather than having it
for Retro purposes :) Nevermind.
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Message 722275 - Posted: 5 Mar 2008, 11:55:19 UTC - in response to Message 722264.

I think too, that the 68x00 CPUs are to slow to complete a WU within a deadline. In my opinion it is not worth to try to port to the 68x000 CPUs.
Also, the computed signals in the current SETI Enhanced Multibeam application is a lot of more sensitiver (factor 5 to 10 ??) and so it needs more time to compute, compared with SETI classic.


Ok guys thanks for all your help but i`m dropping this subject now because
we seemed to have gone way off topic. Amiga unless it`s a PPC Amiga won`t cope.

Hmmm i got a old 500MHZ Comp somewhere that i`ll have to dig out and use to crunch data also,just wanted to make use of the Amiga rather than having it
for Retro purposes :) Nevermind.

The 500 should have no problem.

The Amiga would probably do if it has a math CO.
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