Cleanup in Aisle Four (Jan 17 2008)


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Profile Matt Lebofsky
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Message 700904 - Posted: 17 Jan 2008, 22:23:19 UTC

No disasters or major revelations to report today. Interesting news from yesterday: Sun bought MySQL. Not sure how this will affect us, but it reminds me that I should mention that I am generally pleased with MySQL. There was that one comment about the professor who thought industrial grade software is the only way to go, and the MySQL is for mom-and-pop ventures. Let me address: Claiming the winners in the game of capitalism hold the best solutions to whatever problem is at best an arrogant assumption with obvious overtones of classism (both intellectual and economic), especially given that "mom-and-pop" crack.

Other than that.. mostly spent the day cleaning up spills in various aisles. I also yum'ed up my desktop to Fedora Core 8 as an exercise to do so on more heftier servers in the coming weeks.

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Message 700911 - Posted: 17 Jan 2008, 23:14:24 UTC - in response to Message 700904.

Let me address: Claiming the winners in the game of capitalism hold the best solutions to whatever problem is at best an arrogant assumption with obvious overtones of classism (both intellectual and economic), especially given that "mom-and-pop" crack.


I'm going to check for her thoughts on the matter over the next few days. Also, I stated "professor", when I think I should've stated "instructor", as I think I confused who said it... Databases were topics of discussion in both classes I'm taking right now...

Anyway, your reaction is similar to mine when I ran into a pack of rabid "I hate Microsoft" types that believed that no matter the problem, Open Source was the only "real" solution. This was also echoed in academia last semester by the Linux Zealot that I had for a Linux Administration class. He put out quite a bit of FUD-based stuff in the class. The first night was essentially "Microsoft is bad. Open source is good. Here's a court document where Bill Gates is saying some bad stuff.". The first quiz had as its' "extra credit" question, "Why does Microsoft suck?" I didn't answer that question, and so I had this nice "Answer all questions, even if you don't agree" written on the quiz when I got it returned to me...

It should be all about choosing the right tool for the job...

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Message 700920 - Posted: 17 Jan 2008, 23:25:12 UTC - in response to Message 700911.
Last modified: 17 Jan 2008, 23:25:55 UTC

It should be all about choosing the right tool for the job...


Agreed. I forget the exact quote, but the bare essence is: "When choosing which product to use, the three possible qualities are: Fast, Good, and Cheap. Unfortunately, you only get to pick two." I'm all for commercial grade whatever as long as long as it doesn't squash the free stuff (especially when it's as good or frequently better).

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Message 701384 - Posted: 19 Jan 2008, 3:34:36 UTC - in response to Message 700904.

Make sure you save a copy of the latest version in case they decide to scrap it for something "better" that ends up being something worse.
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Message 701609 - Posted: 19 Jan 2008, 21:06:00 UTC - in response to Message 700920.

Sounds like the laws of research. You can specify only two of the three.
1) What you want to find.
2) How long it will take.
3) How much it will cost.

It should be all about choosing the right tool for the job...


Agreed. I forget the exact quote, but the bare essence is: "When choosing which product to use, the three possible qualities are: Fast, Good, and Cheap. Unfortunately, you only get to pick two." I'm all for commercial grade whatever as long as long as it doesn't squash the free stuff (especially when it's as good or frequently better).

- Matt


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Message 701614 - Posted: 19 Jan 2008, 21:41:16 UTC

Could SUN remove MySQL from the open source community? I use MySQL and would hate to see it go completely private / corporate. I think MySQL does charge for certain licenses, but in my mind I don't see open source and corporations being compatible. I could be wrong and time will tell.

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Message 701623 - Posted: 19 Jan 2008, 22:18:11 UTC - in response to Message 701614.

They could partialy, but the source of the versions up to when they close the source would still have to stay public and people would be completely allowed to start developing community versions or under a new name.

Also, SUN would commit suicide by pulling a stunt like that.

They aren't all that liked to start with and its the opensource type people they are trying to lure in with this buy. Closing the source would get them locked out of this market they'll need to survive in the future.

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Message 701629 - Posted: 19 Jan 2008, 22:30:41 UTC - in response to Message 701623.

They could partialy, but the source of the versions up to when they close the source would still have to stay public and people would be completely allowed to start developing community versions or under a new name.

Also, SUN would commit suicide by pulling a stunt like that.

They aren't all that liked to start with and its the opensource type people they are trying to lure in with this buy. Closing the source would get them locked out of this market they'll need to survive in the future.


Depends on who you're talking about as to whether or not they are liked... and what part of their portfolio as well... Around here, people LOVE SUN, because programming jobs are wanting Java this and J2EE/JavaEE that... The anti-Microsoft sentiment is strong in my former place of employment, and from what I hear, most new hires have Java backgrounds and all outsourcing efforts I witnessed before my departure were Java and not in RPG, COBOL, or any Microsoft language.

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Message 701671 - Posted: 20 Jan 2008, 0:45:36 UTC
Last modified: 20 Jan 2008, 0:47:14 UTC

I just read an article on CBSnews Marketwatch about Sun & MySQL. The writer suspects that Oracle may be behind Sun's buying of MySQL. The article also points out that Sun has a less than stellar record with its acquisitions. They tend to die of neglect.

-------------------
I'm close to being convinced that Oracle wanted to buy MySQL to kill the product, but knew that it couldn't pull off the stunt itself. It would be too obvious, especially to European Union regulators. So it sent in a stooge to do the job.
The two companies, Sun and Oracle, have been strategic partners for years. On top of that, Sun cannot actually afford to spend a $1 billion on a company producing a mere $60 million in revenue and working outside its core competencies.
So who can afford it? Oracle, that's who. This deal stinks from top to bottom.

By John C. Dvorak
Last update: 1:00 p.m. EST Jan. 18, 2008
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Message 701686 - Posted: 20 Jan 2008, 1:39:08 UTC - in response to Message 701671.

I just read an article on CBSnews Marketwatch about Sun & MySQL. The writer suspects that Oracle may be behind Sun's buying of MySQL. The article also points out that Sun has a less than stellar record with its acquisitions. They tend to die of neglect.

-------------------
I'm close to being convinced that Oracle wanted to buy MySQL to kill the product, but knew that it couldn't pull off the stunt itself. It would be too obvious, especially to European Union regulators. So it sent in a stooge to do the job.
The two companies, Sun and Oracle, have been strategic partners for years. On top of that, Sun cannot actually afford to spend a $1 billion on a company producing a mere $60 million in revenue and working outside its core competencies.
So who can afford it? Oracle, that's who. This deal stinks from top to bottom.

By John C. Dvorak
Last update: 1:00 p.m. EST Jan. 18, 2008
---------------------


Yeah, this would be great fodder for tossing at the "MICROSOFT IS EEEEEEEEEEVILLLLL" Linux-Zealot camp if that has any grain of truth...

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Message 701938 - Posted: 20 Jan 2008, 15:40:32 UTC

If they try to kill of MySQL a douzen branches will emerge with the last opensource source as its base.

Also, do you really think Google and the other big names that use MySQL would let SUN or Oracle kill MySQL? Google would probably be the company that would push for a new opensource branch to go full swing replacing MySQL.

The Hydra principle thats touted so often concerning Bittorrent trackers works in the opensource community too. Most specificaly with projects like MySQL and Apache. Chop of 1 and it'll spring of a douzen new heads.

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Message 701972 - Posted: 20 Jan 2008, 16:51:38 UTC - in response to Message 701629.

They could partialy, but the source of the versions up to when they close the source would still have to stay public and people would be completely allowed to start developing community versions or under a new name.

Also, SUN would commit suicide by pulling a stunt like that.

They aren't all that liked to start with and its the opensource type people they are trying to lure in with this buy. Closing the source would get them locked out of this market they'll need to survive in the future.


Depends on who you're talking about as to whether or not they are liked... and what part of their portfolio as well... Around here, people LOVE SUN, because programming jobs are wanting Java this and J2EE/JavaEE that... The anti-Microsoft sentiment is strong in my former place of employment, and from what I hear, most new hires have Java backgrounds and all outsourcing efforts I witnessed before my departure were Java and not in RPG, COBOL, or any Microsoft language.


Since when are RPG and COBOL thought of as Micro$oft languages? I was programming in COBOL before M$ was even founded, back in the mid-'70's... I don't remember what (or whose) computer first had COBOL, but RPG came out with the IBM-360.

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Message 701990 - Posted: 20 Jan 2008, 17:40:52 UTC - in response to Message 701972.

Since when are RPG and COBOL thought of as Micro$oft languages? I was programming in COBOL before M$ was even founded, back in the mid-'70's... I don't remember what (or whose) computer first had COBOL, but RPG came out with the IBM-360.

Um... he did say RPG, COBOL OR Microsoft & not "other Microsoft" so probably didn't mean to imply they were Microsoft.

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Message 702342 - Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 11:25:38 UTC - in response to Message 701990.

Since when are RPG and COBOL thought of as Micro$oft languages? I was programming in COBOL before M$ was even founded, back in the mid-'70's... I don't remember what (or whose) computer first had COBOL, but RPG came out with the IBM-360.

Um... he did say RPG, COBOL OR Microsoft & not "other Microsoft" so probably didn't mean to imply they were Microsoft.


Just coming back round to this... I can see one stretch of potential misinterpretation of what was said, but it is a long stretch... As you pointed out, the lack of the word "other" is a tipoff. For extreme precision, I could've worded as:

...RPG, COBOL, nor any Microsoft language.

*OR*

..RPG, COBOL, and certainly not in any of the Microsoft languages.

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Message 702366 - Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 13:57:08 UTC - in response to Message 702342.
Last modified: 21 Jan 2008, 13:59:51 UTC

Since when are RPG and COBOL thought of as Micro$oft languages? I was programming in COBOL before M$ was even founded, back in the mid-'70's... I don't remember what (or whose) computer first had COBOL, but RPG came out with the IBM-360.

Um... he did say RPG, COBOL OR Microsoft & not "other Microsoft" so probably didn't mean to imply they were Microsoft.


Just coming back round to this... I can see one stretch of potential misinterpretation of what was said, but it is a long stretch... As you pointed out, the lack of the word "other" is a tipoff. For extreme precision, I could've worded as:

...RPG, COBOL, nor any Microsoft language.

*OR*

..RPG, COBOL, and certainly not in any of the Microsoft languages.


Actually, mis-interpretation (mis-reading, actually!) on my end was the problem... I missed the "or"!
Apologies...
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Message 703138 - Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 5:27:39 UTC - in response to Message 702366.

Since when are RPG and COBOL thought of as Micro$oft languages? I was programming in COBOL before M$ was even founded, back in the mid-'70's... I don't remember what (or whose) computer first had COBOL, but RPG came out with the IBM-360.

Um... he did say RPG, COBOL OR Microsoft & not "other Microsoft" so probably didn't mean to imply they were Microsoft.


Just coming back round to this... I can see one stretch of potential misinterpretation of what was said, but it is a long stretch... As you pointed out, the lack of the word "other" is a tipoff. For extreme precision, I could've worded as:

...RPG, COBOL, nor any Microsoft language.

*OR*

..RPG, COBOL, and certainly not in any of the Microsoft languages.


Actually, mis-interpretation (mis-reading, actually!) on my end was the problem... I missed the "or"!
Apologies...


No problem...

I've never done RPG, but I've used CA-Realia and Microfocus for COBOL...

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