Fair Tax

What do you think about it? It's bound to be a well debated topic this year in the presidential campaigns.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
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There is nothing 'fair' about your system... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

There is nothing 'fair' about your system... ;)

How do you figure Jeff??

Higher tax burden on the " rich "...lower tax burden on the " poor ".

Seems a lot more fair than the current system that has so many loopholes for accountants ( which poor people cannot afford to pay ) to find that it resembles swiss cheese.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
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Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Seems a lot more fair than the current system

Maybe they should name it 'better tax'... ;)

(Or just call it what it is, 'the lesser of two evils tax'.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I've heard many people express concerns that if we instituted the fair tax we should be concerned about what millions of accountants would now have to do for jobs......they'd be out of work. Also, governement auditors that cripple families....they'd be out of work too.

I kid you not.

I have heard these arguments.

We MUST KEEP THE SYSTEM TO KEEP THE BEAURECRATS WORKING.

...I guess.......if tomorrow there was a drastic reduction in murder we might have to lay off morticians and some grave diggers....oh well.!

Duh!

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Historically and statistically speaking, the lower the tax burden the higher the voluntary spending on private scales to projects like SETIathome occurs. This is always true. If you support seti then support different tax policy.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Everyone gets a 'prebate' check each month. Cash.

This covers the basic assumed taxes that we all pay for essentials like food, shelter, etc.


It rids us of the embedded taxation that is inherent in all of our products and means that essentially, for most things we buy, the prices will remain the same.

We will never ever ever pay income taxes again....ever. No more social security taxes. No more payroll taxes (which any economist will tell you is a sham ) ever again.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I think the only system I have even considered to be 'fair' is a one time flat tax.
You make 'x' income, you pay 'x' percent in taxes. Doesn't matter if you make 1K a year or a billion a year. Those who make the most pay the most. No loopholes.

And don't tax it when I earn it, again when I save it and earn interest on it (what a concept, encourage saving)..and when I spend it again.
I wonder what a dollar is really worth if someone calculates the number of times that dollar is taxed as it passes through our hands??
Taxed to earn it, taxed to save it, taxed to spend it....and God forbid the complexities when you die.....
'S no wonder I have to grovel to get a few coins to toss to the kitties.......

Amd sorry if my post is in difference to the thread title.....
There is no 'fun' in taxes..Wisconsin just passed a new tax increasing the cigarette tax by $1.00 per pack.
I advise all to stock smoking, I am trying to quit smoking, but having the government single me out to fish my wallet because I am in the minority who are smoking gets me......well......smoking!!!!
It's kinda like the seatbelt laws. I was raised as a kid to always have your seatbelts on. And when I got my driver's liscence and started driving on my own, I usually did. 'Twas a good thing, 'cause I rolled my first car within a month, and I have no doubt that the fact I had my belt on saved my life.
But it STILL pissed me off when the legislature passed a law that said I HAD to.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I think the only system I have even considered to be 'fair' is a one time flat tax.
You make 'x' income, you pay 'x' percent in taxes. Doesn't matter if you make 1K a year or a billion a year. Those who make the most pay the most. No loopholes.

And don't tax it when I earn it, again when I save it and earn interest on it (what a concept, encourage saving)..and when I spend it again.
I wonder what a dollar is really worth if someone calculates the number of times that dollar is taxed as it passes through our hands??
Taxed to earn it, taxed to save it, taxed to spend it.
'S no wonder I have to grovel to get a few coins to toss to the kitties.......

Amd sorry if my post is in difference to the thread title.....
There is no 'fun' in taxes..Wisconsin just passed a new tax increasing the cigarette tax by $1.00 per pack.
I advise all to stock smoking, I am trying to quit smoking, but having the government single me out to fish my wallet because I am in the minority who are smoking gets me......well......smoking!!!!
It's kinda like the seatbelt laws. I was raised as a kid to always have your seatbelts on. And when I got my driver's liscence and started driving on my own, I usually did. 'Twas a good thing, 'cause I rolled my first car within a month, and I have no doubt that the fact I had my belt on saved my life.
But it STILL pissed me off when the legislature passed a law that said I HAD to.

Years ago I used to think that a flat tax was proper. But now, with this idea of Fair Tax I must support it. It only taxes actual consumptions. There is no other device that I am aware of that would encourage investment and job growth better than that.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Years ago I used to think that a flat tax was proper. But now, with this idea of Fair Tax I must support it. It only taxes actual consumptions. There is no other device that I am aware of that would encourage investment and job growth better than that.

I still may disagree.
My feeling is that if I must be taxed on what I earn, so be it.
But then quit installing all these extra taxes dependent on what I choose to do with it.....
I have earned it, you have taxed me, so stop already!!!!!

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

There is no other device that I am aware of that would encourage investment and job growth better than that.

Didn't they say that about their tax breaks for the rich... Yea, that worked out nicely, for the rich... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

There is no other device that I am aware of that would encourage investment and job growth better than that.

Didn't they say that about the tax breaks for the rich... Yea, that worked out nicely, for the rich... ;)

If there was a flat tax, the businesses and investors would still seek out the best return.....
But the rest of us would not be so penalized for their efforts....

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

If there was a flat tax

Do the math: 100,000 - 20% = 80,000... 20,000 - 20% = 16,000...

I'll never forget my 'father' looking me square in the eye and saying: 'You might make less money, but I pay more in taxes'...
He actually believed that HE was the one getting screwed... Heck, I could live 10 years on 1 year of his salary, AFTER taxes...

As fair as the 'flat tax' is, or should I say was, the rich will never go for it... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

If there was a flat tax

Do the math: 100,000 - 20% = 80,000... 20,000 - 20% = 16,000...

I'll never forget my 'father' looking me square in the eye and saying: 'You might make less money, but I pay more in taxes'...
He actually believed that HE was the one getting screwed...

As fair as the 'flat tax' is, or should I say was, the rich will never go for it... ;)

Well of course!
There are not many poor politicians, are there?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

" the Internal Revenue Service released data on tax year 2003. The data show that the top 1 percent of taxpayers, ranked by adjusted gross income, paid 34.3 percent of all federal income taxes that year. The top 5 percent paid 54.4 percent, the top 10 percent paid 65.8 percent, and the top 25 percent paid 83.9 percent." - Reality over Appearance by Bruce Bartlet


And this is fair? The rich are under taxed? Where are the so called "tax breaks for the rich?"

If people in the top 25 percent of earnings are paying more than 80% of all the income taxes paid to the goverment why are people saying the rich are getting a break?

The truth is using class warfare is a good way to get elected. Everybody wants to be told that they are going to be looked out for. Did your tax bill go down when the democrats held the majority and the presidents office - nope. Has it gone down since they captured both houses of congress - nope. If they win the next election will they go down - not a single one of the dempcratic candidates have said they will cut your taxes - but they all promise that they will take away the tax cuts for the rich - how nice of them.

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

" the Internal Revenue Service released data on tax year 2003. The data show that the top 1 percent of taxpayers, ranked by adjusted gross income, paid 34.3 percent of all federal income taxes that year. The top 5 percent paid 54.4 percent, the top 10 percent paid 65.8 percent, and the top 25 percent paid 83.9 percent." - Reality over Appearance by Bruce Bartlet


And this is fair? The rich are under taxed? Where are the so called "tax breaks for the rich?"

If people in the top 25 percent of earnings are paying more than 80% of all the income taxes paid to the goverment why are people saying the rich are getting a break?

The truth is using class warfare is a good way to get elected. Everybody wants to be told that they are going to be looked out for. Did your tax bill go down when the democrats held the majority and the presidents office - nope. Has it gone down since they captured both houses of congress - nope. If they win the next election will they go down - not a single one of the dempcratic candidates have said they will cut your taxes - but they all promise that they will take away the tax cuts for the rich - how nice of them.

Glad you made these points, Tom.

The truth is that in America the poor aren't paying taxes. Only the upper income brackets are paying the bills. Soon it will be apparent that there's just no more money to be stolen from the job producers.

@Sattler, in reply to your Flat Tax argument. Remember that with the Fair tax you will get a prebate check every single month. Cash. Right in your bank account.

No poor people will ever pay income taxes again. Not one single american will ever file a tax return again. Think about that.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

If people in the top 25 percent of earnings are paying more than 80% of all the income taxes

When 10 percent of the population holds 90 percent of the wealth, my question is: Why aren't they paying more? ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

If people in the top 25 percent of earnings are paying more than 80% of all the income taxes

When 10 percent of the population holds 90 percent of the wealth, my question is: Why aren't they paying more? ;)

First off, your 'facts' aren't facts at all. Are you so ignorant as to believe that wealth is static? You think it grows on trees like acorns? People produce that wealth by their efforts. Tell me what gives YOU the right to take any of it much less demand more?

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Are you so ignorant as to believe that wealth is static?

Yes! I am! Everything in this world is 'static'... The one thing I learned in the military is that everything in this world has 'structure', and that 'structure is static'... To prove my point, when things change due to unforeseen events, people always fall into chaos and confusion... It's kinda like 'a disturbance in the force' to them, and they panic!

The great depression was a terrible time in history, the Clinton years were known as the good years, yet the unemployment rate has never been anything other than 5-10%? How else would you explain this? ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

" the Internal Revenue Service released data on tax year 2003. The data show that the top 1 percent of taxpayers, ranked by adjusted gross income, paid 34.3 percent of all federal income taxes that year. The top 5 percent paid 54.4 percent, the top 10 percent paid 65.8 percent, and the top 25 percent paid 83.9 percent." - Reality over Appearance by Bruce Bartlet

The top 25 % may have paid 83.9 % of Federal taxes in 2003, but then they
did earn 64.9 % of total AGI earned that same year. I suppose a total on-par tax
system would have had that 25 % pay 64.9 % of all Federal income tax. Consider
the 30 % premium on taxes paid by that 25 % of the population as a social welfare
tax to ensure a healthy consumerist workforce keeping the
"Capitalist Dream" alive.

I think you'll see universal health care adopted before a major change in the
tax system.

For those who want to present their own spin on taxes in the US, a good source
of stats is http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Seasons Greetings! :o))

You imply there should be a 'thug tax'....or a 'hostage tax'. That's your attitude.

"Pay up in response to me not beating your brains in and making you a slave. After all, I LET YOU get this rich without my violence"

Take your Seasons Greetings somewhere else. You don't have a concept of what individual rights are all about. And your German Socialism can take a vacation on the ash heap of history. You've tried it 2x already.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!