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Fun with Gov't Meddling - Part Trois
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Rush Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3131 Credit: 302,569 RAC: 0 |
Deep-Six the Law of the Sea Thomas A. Bowden: The Wall Street Journal, 11.20.2007 The Law of the Sea Treaty, which awaits a ratification vote in the U.S. Senate, declares most of the earth's vast ocean floor to be "the common heritage of mankind" and places it under United Nations ownership "for the benefit of mankind as a whole." This treaty has been bobbing in the legislative ocean for the past 25 years. After President Ronald Reagan refused to sign it in 1982, repeated attempts at ratification have failed. Last month, however, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted 17-4 to send it to the full Senate, where a two-thirds majority is required to ratify. What's at stake are trillions of tons of vital minerals such as manganese, nickel, copper, zinc, gold and silver -- enough to supply current needs for thousands of years -- spread over vast seabeds constituting 41% of the planet's area. Senate ratification would signify U.S. agreement that the International Seabed Authority, a U.N. agency based in Jamaica, should own these resources in perpetuity. Why should we agree to this? Like any other hard-to-reach resources, these undersea minerals are completely valueless where they now rest. What is it that makes such resources actually valuable? It is the thinking and action of inventors, engineers, explorers and entrepreneurs who devote their mental energy to the task of finding and retrieving them. These undersea pioneers don't just find wealth, they create wealth -- by bringing a portion of nature's bounty under human control. Despite the treaty's allusion to seabeds as the "common heritage of mankind," mankind as a whole has done exactly nothing to create value in the deep ocean, which is a remote wilderness, virtually unexploited. Under the proposed treaty, however, the ocean mining companies -- whose science, exploration, technology, and entrepreneurship are being counted on to gather otherwise inaccessible riches -- are treated as mere servants of a world collective. In practice, under the treaty's explicitly socialist approach, mining companies operate as mere licensees who must render hefty application fees as well as continuing payments (read: taxes) and obtain prior approval at every stage of work, under regulations that emerge sluggishly from multinational committees. Licensees must also enrich a U.N.-operated competitor called, spookily enough, "The Enterprise." For every square mile of ocean bottom a licensee explores, half must be relinquished to The Enterprise, free of charge -- and the Enterprise gets to pick the better half. Licensees must also make available, on so-called reasonable commercial terms, their technology and know-how, and even train this giant competitor's personnel. At the end of the day, profits from The Enterprise, along with taxes from licensees, are distributed to U.N. member-nations such as Cuba, Uganda and Venezuela, who contribute nothing to the productive process. The treaty simply assumes as a self-evident truth that wealth sharing is the moral duty of the haves toward the have-nots, and that the world's needy nations have a moral claim on the wealth created by undersea miners. But we should pause to challenge both that moral assumption and its legal implications. Morally, undersea mining operations are entitled to own outright those portions of the ocean floor they exploit, by virtue of the productive effort they expend. Producers in general are morally entitled to live and work for their own sake, keeping the wealth they create without any moral debt to those who didn't create it. Because nature requires us to be productive in order to live, the businessman's pursuit of profit is properly regarded as a virtue, not a vice indebting him to a hungry planet. Legally, this viewpoint is embodied in the American ideals of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, secured by private property rights. A historical example of the proper principle in action is the Homestead Act of 1862. Farmers acquired property rights, i.e., private deeds, to 270 million acres of fertile Midwest prairie land by the productive act of farming it, parcel by parcel. Suppose, instead, that the U.S. government had issued only licenses, not deeds, for the acreage those farmers carved out of wild prairie land. Then suppose the government had transferred half that hard-won acreage to "The Farm," a giant government-owned competitor whose field hands the farmers would be expected to equip and train. Of course, such a travesty would have been unthinkable in the relatively capitalistic 19th century. Governments today have legitimate options regarding how to deal with undersea explorers' need to establish property rights in the deep ocean. But it would be totally improper for America to declare eternal hostility to private property in the ocean floor by ratifying a treaty dedicated on principle to denying such rights. Cordially, Rush elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com Remove the obvious... |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
Thomas A. Bowden: The Wall Street Journal, 11.20.2007 This guy is an Objectivist. I got an email about this Wall Street Journal op/ed. Apparently this is also on 2 senator's websites who are fighting to stop the treaty. Imhofe and another whose name I forget. Aren't we grand? Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", You weren't supposed to tell anyone but I need a secondary source of income to supplement what I make busting Unions. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", You lost me. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", Hmmm. I haven't been mislaid in a while. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", True, but is there a point you're going to make sometime today or......? Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
Pffft. You've managed to prove that yet another fool with an axe to grind has figured out how to use a computer and make a website. You still haven't produced any arguments though. Furthermore, you haven't even bothered to address the Law of the Sea treaty which this thread is about. You're just using your posts as an opportunity to knock Rush and I around. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", That's funny. I had a similar thought the other day. Rush, Scary, Smashedbrain and a few others are actually all one person sitting in a corporate basement cubicle surrounded by a dozen computers. His/her job is to spread corporate/elitist manure in message boards around the world. Get out now! Get some fresh air into your lungs! Let the sun shine on your face! No one buys this garbage. We know that all of your plans will lead to ruination, degredation, foulness and corruption in the end. Unchecked corporate capitalism is a blight on the face of the Earth and people will oppose it. Cause I sez so |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
Cause I sez so Ditto dat... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", How will it lead to ruination? Somehow? You continue to rant on without ever adducing evidence or facts or even using reasoned arguments. Unsupported assertions are empty. If you're right explain how why don't you? Or are the things you believe just something you 'feel'. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
Pffft. You've managed to prove that yet another fool with an axe to grind has figured out how to use a computer and make a website. Who wants to spend endless hours arguing the bloody obvious with you two? We aren't being paid to do this. The sea beds belong to the world. Stop being the schoolyard bully and expecting the rest of the world to submit to your will. |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", You disagree with ruination. Therefore, by your logic, by not including degradation, foulness and corruption means you agree with me on those terms. |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
Pffft. You've managed to prove that yet another fool with an axe to grind has figured out how to use a computer and make a website. Another unsupported and empty assertion. Here's an equally valid and unsupported assertion for you to try on for size: The sea beds belong to ME. The moon belongs to me too. See how easy it is to just assert random crap? Methinks you'd do yourself a favor to spend a few bucks down at the local community college on a Polemics 101 course. Or save yourself the money and take a crash course from me at no charge. I'm feeling uncharacteristically charitable today. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
I'd swear that the two of you are getting paid by the "ARI", I consider myself to be quite well adept at understanding ideas expressed in the english language yet can't seem to make a bit of sense out of this mini-rant of yours. Hmmm. Yes, I 'disagree with ruination' which is why I oppose your 'ideas', if they can be called ideas, for nationalizing many of the largest industries in existence. Maybe that's what you meant. I fear getting clarity of thought from you is far from probable. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
It is indeed uncharacteristic of you. Which leads me to believe the regular guy in the basement cubicle is off sick today and you're just a temp. |
Rush Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3131 Credit: 302,569 RAC: 0 |
That's funny. Heh heh. No one buys this garbage. Who knows what the readers of these threads decide. They can certainly see your complete lack of reasoning. Hey, bring up the murdered CEO thing again, that was A) hilarious, and B) clearly really worked well last time... We know that all of your plans will lead to ruination, degredation, foulness and corruption in the end. Uh huh, sure they will. Notice that everyone is trying like hell to obtain a rich western lifestyle and they aren't trying to get back to some medieval existence where they can barter with each other for tallow and string? That people want homes, air conditioning, internet access, and a much higher standard of living, and not another Soviet 5 year plan or the standard of living in the DPRK suggests that your empty opinion are just that. Empty. Cordially, Rush elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com Remove the obvious... |
Rush Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3131 Credit: 302,569 RAC: 0 |
Who wants to spend endless hours arguing the bloody obvious with you two? And they will never ever bring dime one, to anyone else, because no one will invest the money to drill or mine them. Hey, you should get them UAW laborers to do it. I mean, they have all the labor you could ever want, and since you think that's all you need, they could be rich. Oh, but wait, they won't do it either, because they aren't going to give up 1/2 their income either. Stop being the schoolyard bully and expecting the rest of the world to submit to your will. I don't expect anyone to submit to my will. Ever. That means union members, CEOs, anyone. You on the other hand do. You expect corporations to submit to YOUR will and you're annoyed when they won't. Try that "bushtards" thing again. Cordially, Rush elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com Remove the obvious... |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
Notice that everyone is trying like hell to obtain a rich western lifestyle Just like unemployment statistics, are 'we' excluding 'me' from your statistics again... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
I agree with you (I never thought I'd type those words) People want everything you've listed, and more. How do we all achieve this goal? Do we all follow the corporatist plan toward this great and wonderful future? The path you've been advocating is one that leads to lower wages to ensure the elites keep North Americans employed. By following your advice, people will decertify their unions because unions have priced themselves out of the market. Leading to individually negotiated contracts of employment where the employer has the upper hand in that they will have the ability to play the individuals against each other in a reverse bidding war just to simply retain employment. So, as I see it, (because I seez it) in order to keep jobs from leaving North America or from being automated, working people will have to work for less to obtain that edge in the competition for jobs with the third world and they will have to give up their collective bargaining rights, give up benefits such as pensions and healthcare and allow corporations to pay no taxes. If they could only see the error of their ways, the consumer utopia you foresee will magically appear before their eyes. People will have everything if they will work for nothing. Does that sum up your idea of a workable plan for working people? A little piece of advice for you...don't run for public office on that platform. |
Rush Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3131 Credit: 302,569 RAC: 0 |
That people want homes, air conditioning, internet access, and a much higher standard of living, and not another Soviet 5 year plan or the standard of living in the DPRK suggests that your empty opinion are just that. Empty. I don't have a "corporatist plan" whatever the hell that is. Neither do most people. They just seek to make their lives, and that of their families, better. Which means that they buy what they choose to. They are free to choose from whom, for how much, and under whatever parameters they wish. Unless, of course, the gov't has taken that choice away from them. The path you've been advocating is one that leads to lower wages to ensure the elites keep North Americans employed. Why? Because you sez so? Because you've sezed so a number of times? Because you're going to sez so again in the future? If what you say there is true, how then do you account for the fact that 90% or so of employed (the ones that aren't in unions) Americans aren't working for 3 cents an hour? By following your advice, people will decertify their unions because unions have priced themselves out of the market. Unions seem to be happily pricing themselves out of the market REGARDLESS of what I happen to think about it, or whether they are certified or not. If the union labor costs are too high, they will eventually be replaced, certified or not, union or not. No one cares. To give you an example. When I needed work done on my apartment buildings in Chicago, I never ONCE used union plumbers, electricians, or anything else. Never once. What I did do, was use non-union guys to do the exact same work for much less. I would say that 75 percent of the time, they were union members that were doing the work for me so that they could be paid in cash, knowing full well that if they wanted the work, I would not pay union scale. They were perfectly happy to get good money for their work, even though it was under the table. I didn't care whether they were in a certified union, I cared that they did good work for the price we agreed on. Leading to individually negotiated contracts of employment where the employer has the upper hand in that they will have the ability to play the individuals against each other in a reverse bidding war just to simply retain employment. Again, as noted above, 90% of working Americans are not in unions, yet they do not work for 3 cents an hour. Why not? Why isn't there some "reverse bidding war?" Why does America enjoy full employment consistently, while so-called workers utopias deal with staggering unemployment rates? Why did France not see employment rates jump when they mandated a 35 hour work week? Why? Because employers don't always have the upper hand. Good workers can leave and work other places and they do. So, as I see it, (because I seez it) in order to keep jobs from leaving North America or from being automated, working people will have to work for less to obtain that edge in the competition for jobs with the third world and they will have to give up their collective bargaining rights, give up benefits such as pensions and healthcare and allow corporations to pay no taxes. Yeah, that may be exactly the case (except for the taxes bit), given that the American standard of living (and by extension, those of western G7 nations) is artificially inflated because the world currency is the U.S. dollar. Since that standard is artificially inflated, then yes, it will likely fall somewhat, or at least, cease to grow as fast as it has. Such is life, that will also mean that many many other people will see their standard of living rise as their employment prospects and opportunities become more bountiful. As far as taxes go, corporations never pay taxes, they never have. Ever single penny of taxes goes directly into the price of their product, just as leather does for shoes, or steel does for cars, or anything else. Taxes are just another cost, reflected directly in the price, paid directly by the consumer at the register. If they could only see the error of their ways, the consumer utopia you foresee will magically appear before their eyes. Frankly, I have no idea what any of this means. "Consumer utopia?" "Work for nothing?" Who said anything of the sort? American workers don't work for nothing. Neither does anyone else. All I've said is that as costs drop, consumers enjoy a higher standard of living. Yes, that often means that blacksmiths and buggy makers have to find other methods of earning a living. So what? A little piece of advice for you...don't run for public office on that platform. Fear not, I have no intention of taking such a pay cut. Cordially, Rush elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com Remove the obvious... |
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