Woot!!! what an election after party, ;D home brewed special beer all around!

No Australian prime Minister has ever before lost his own Seat (area), has now, and never before has an Australian prime minister had to concede defeat before 9pm on Election day, has now.

Australia is now free from 11 years of tyranny, under funded health, education and small business (for starters). The rule of dodgy corporate enterprise is over, no more government grants for useless impractical crap....

LOL, Freedom :D

Respectfully Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Woot!!! what an election after party, ;D home brewed special beer all around!

No Australian prime Minister has ever before lost his own Seat (area), has now, and never before has an Australian prime minister had to concede defeat before 9pm on Election day, has now.

Australia is now free from 11 years of tyranny, under funded health, education and small business (for starters). The rule of dodgy corporate enterprise is over, no more government grants for useless impractical crap....

LOL, Freedom :D

Respectfully Jason

Only 11 years...? I think you must to count more than 200 years...

BTW Congratulations!!!

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Logan.

BOINC FAQ Service (Ahora, también disponible en Español/Now available in Spanish)

Woot!!! what an election after party, ;D home brewed special beer all around!

No Australian prime Minister has ever before lost his own Seat (area), has now, and never before has an Australian prime minister had to concede defeat before 9pm on Election day, has now.

Australia is now free from 11 years of tyranny, under funded health, education and small business (for starters). The rule of dodgy corporate enterprise is over, no more government grants for useless impractical crap....

LOL, Freedom :D

Respectfully Jason

That is the best news I've heard today. Gives a bit of hope in the world, congratulations Australia :)

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Could someone outline why the change is significant? I've checked around here and there but am still unclear on the issues.

A good question. that has many different answers for the many diverse Australian people (i.e. different annoyances across the broad spectrum of Australians.)

Since this is moved to the political forum (from the Cafe), Sure we can turn it into a political thread instead of the original intended 'Post Election Booze Up' celebratory type thread :D

Any one, some, all or other gripes (or none for the minority) may apply to majority of Australians:
(Some certainly apply to me too :) Some don't, Some I'm firmly on the fence, but I believe we need change too.)
- One big issue here lately has been: The previous government had actively eliminated many forms of Industrial relations mechanisms, rendering it possible for low paid workers to be forced to cash in entitlements (holiday leave etc..) at reduced rates, like < $1 has been common, and also be fired and rehired at reduced rates.

- Though actions like those were supposedly made illegal, the mechanisms to enforce those laws in support of the worker were also removed (not merely talking unionism here, more dismantlement of the Industrial Relations Commission and similar mechanisms)

- First the GST (Goods and services Tax) was introduced while the government had specifically denied that it would be, Most people accept that as a change for the better in its own right, however certain other state taxes were 'supposed' to be removed / abolished, they haven't been.

- Not sure on this one, I believe the new "Simplified Tax System"/"Tax Reform" covers some 10 to 14 Volumes, and growing, and the old Tax system covers 4 to 7 volumes.

- The tax on cigarettes renders a pack of 25 about AUS$11 ( I think about US$7-8), This effects low/fixed income people most likely to smoke, and unable to get help quitting (Luckily, I gave up quite a while ago)

- Massively reduced Health care Budgets especially for Nursing and Hospitals.

- Massively reduced Public Education Budgets, Culminating in massive Skill and Trade shortages.

- Privatisation of most of Australia's Previously Publicly owned Companies and Assets

- Alienation by the government of the Indigenous community. Including damning reports by World Health organisation and United Nations.

- Refusal to support Kyoto

- Nuclear Energy Issues (I'm a fence sitter on this one). previous government strongly in favour of building a large nuclear energy industry to provide for future power demands, not bad in of itself IMO, but it is suspected that it would be a ruse to develop the acceptance of foreign waste to bury in geologically stable areas of Australia.

- Deteriorating Roads (National)

- Poker Machines in Pubs (Specific to certain states really, but also hardest on low income families)

- Basic welfare policies that are supporting a corrupt 'Job Network scheme', These force the unemployed to take any work offered, suitability/match of that work to applicants is generally poor to worse. placing people in an endless welfare cycle effectively increasing cases of clinical depression and suicide (combined with under funded health system that is particularly bad. While it was initially brought up by the Job seekers, Business has started to make A LOT of noise about this, they need suitable workers, and the previously mentioned skill shortages / education is preventing that. [Note that I work and Study, but I am still seriously effected by this, as the job market is swamped with unsuitable applicants, many businesses just give up and stop hiring ]

- All that and the government budget is 'in surplus', that is touted as a good thing...

I am sure I've only scratched the surface of issues that the Australian People may feel the need for change of government.

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Sad news for freedom and all those opposed to the dogma of socialism antithetical to the free will of man and the pursuit of happiness.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Sad news for freedom and all those opposed to the dogma of socialism antithetical to the free will of man and the pursuit of happiness.

You disagree with this Scary Capitalist? Interesting because the new/entering government would be considered an 'Industrial Capilist' one to some degree...

Business has started to make A LOT of noise about this, they need suitable workers, and the previously mentioned skill shortages / education is preventing that. [Note that I work and Study, but I am still seriously effected by this, as the job market is swamped with unsuitable applicants, many businesses just give up and stop hiring ]

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Sad news for freedom and all those opposed to the dogma of socialism antithetical to the free will of man and the pursuit of happiness.

You disagree with this Scary Capitalist?

Business has started to make A LOT of noise about this, they need suitable workers, and the previously mentioned skill shortages / education is preventing that. [Note that I work and Study, but I am still seriously effected by this, as the job market is swamped with unsuitable applicants, many businesses just give up and stop hiring ]

Tell me what you mean and I'll be happy to disagree with it I'm sure.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Tell me what you mean and I'll be happy to disagree with it I'm sure.

Sure, not all Australians would agree either on any one specific issue, though there is a general consensus that change is needed. Yesterday's election results demonstrated that. [In favour of a change of government, which has held office for 11 years]

That specific issue was a superficial attempt, by myself, to describe the status quo as related to Australian small, medium and large business:
- They [Australian businesses in general] are experiencing skill shortages, across all skilled trades and industry, due in part to public education cutbacks.
- Compounding the effect of the education cutbacks, the current welfare system forces job-seekers to go to a 'Job Network' agency, which are reportedly flooding businesses with unsuitable applicants.

The net effect reported by business, is that the staff turnover rate and staff skill base, identified by scary capitalist "Henry Ford" as critical components of industrialism, are severely compromised in the current system.

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Tell me what you mean and I'll be happy to disagree with it I'm sure.

Sure, not all Australians would agree either on any one specific issue, though there is a general consensus that change is needed. Yesterday's election demonstrated that.

That specific issue was a superficial attempt, by myself, to describe the status quo as related to Australian small, medium and large business:
- They [Australian businesses in general] are experiencing skill shortages, across all skilled trades and industry, due in part to public education cutbacks.

I'd counter that this effect is likely that of the public ie government school systems in general, not funding. Privatize that and watch the problems the welfare statists created disappear. How to do this is complicated, but necessary.

- Compounding the effect of the education cutbacks, the current welfare system forces job-seekers to go to a 'Job Network' agency, which are reportedly flooding businesses with unsuitable applicants.

You state this symptom as it is a primary cause. You blank out in your mind (or in anyone's mind that is advancing this argument) that it's somehow the PRIVATE job placement agencies at fault for having so many unqualified people showing up at their doors. Of course, those companies didn't create the conditions that made these jobless people jobless in the first place. Another case of statism and controls necessitating more and more controls. We tried to make our socialism work...but it doesn't... "let's blame the capitalists!"

The net effect reported by business, is that the staff turnover rate and staff skill base, identified by scary capitalist "Henry Ford" as critical components of industrialism, are severely compromised in the current system.

Jason, I agree. The systems that Aussies depend on are compromised by the leftie brand of socialism practiced in Australia.

By the way, if the Capitalists in Australia are identifying themselves with 'Henry Ford' capitalism as a negative your country is in deep trouble.

Try listening to Prodoss on the net radio. He leads popular pro capitalism marches annually....last I checked.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I'd counter that this effect is likely that of the public ie government school systems in general, not funding. Privatize that and watch the problems the welfare statists created disappear. How to do this is complicated, but necessary.

Yes, you would be starting almost from scratch here. There are private schools but they tend to be academically focussed rather than technical trades & skills oriented. So the primary source of skilled tradespeople is currently shifting from public sector ['supposedly' working quite closely with business] to none. Hopefully private sector will step in to fill the gap, with the support of business clientele. That remains to be seen.

We tried to make our socialism work...but it doesn't... "let's blame the capitalists!"

No let's blame the government and vote them out, we did [Yesterday!]. I agree the performance of the job agencies is a side effect not a cause.

The net effect reported by business, is that the staff turnover rate and staff skill base, identified by scary capitalist "Henry Ford" as critical components of industrialism, are severely compromised in the current system.

Jason, I agree. The systems that Aussies depend on are compromised by the leftie brand of socialism practiced in Australia.

darn tootin!

By the way, if the Capitalists in Australia are identifying themselves with 'Henry Ford' capitalism as a negative your country is in deep trouble.

That would have just been myself identifying an industry performance indicator with historical reference, [The intention was to use Henry Ford as a positive reference, perhaps the 'scary capitalist' tag wasn't a good juxtaposition to make in that context] I would hope Australian capitalists are significantly better versed in the practices of modern industrial capitalism than I am :D

Try listening to Prodoss on the net radio. He leads popular pro capitalism marches annually....last I checked.

Thanks, I am new to the subject and quite interested in it. While not my field of expertise, I had to study it a little in the historical context, to support particular research on 'What makes business successful' and how one might go about providing, and encouraging the use of, contract services to deal with the compliance burdens carried by business.

The presentation went down rather well as I was the only one who presented the issues as a positive opportunity for growth and expansion, following (rather simplistic and likely dated) Industrial Capitalist models, rather than an intimidating presentation on Penalties and Legislation.

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

I have an affinity to you already. Contact me after brekkie.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I have an affinity to you already. Contact me after brekkie.

Sure, will PM later. There are many things I don't understand about our political models, and how they pertain to business and economics. I'll try to formulate a couple of them to see if you have a take on them.

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Be prepared. :-)

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

John Howard was/is a lying ars***le ! Personally I can't stand the sneaky little ****!

He told us we would never have a GST ... Lie.
He told us people were throwing their children overboard ... Lie.
He told us average Australians were better off than ever with work choices ... Lie.

He took away my guns. This place is swarming with imported pest species and I can't even get a BB gun to try and control them ... That sucks.

All in all, I think he should be prosecuted for disseminating false and misleading information, I would be if I told as many lies to the public as he has.

And if for some reason he can't be charged then stone him in public. ;)

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Qunpu' lo'taHmo' jIH yItamQo'

John Howard was/is a lying ars***le ! Personally I can't stand the sneaky little ****!

He told us we would never have a GST ... Lie.
He told us people were throwing their children overboard ... Lie.
He told us average Australians were better off than ever with work choices ... Lie.

He took away my guns. This place is swarming with imported pest species and I can't even get a BB gun to try and control them ... That sucks.

All in all, I think he should be prosecuted for disseminating false and misleading information, I would be if I told as many lies to the public as he has.

And if for some reason he can't be charged then stone him in public. ;)

Hehehe, the thread has been turning interesting :D, How we ended up with such an apparently socialist government for so long, welfare state, multi tiered bureaucracy, and culture of paranoia all included I have no idea.

I haven't followed the history of politics here. Rather I had been focussed on my studies in other science and technical areas. Now I am finding there are serious political considerations in everything related to my field(s). I really wish I'd paid more time and interest, Oh well still time to learn :D

Jason
[PS @Scary Capitalist: Okay, I'll hold off 'till I have a better understanding of what's been going on here, I have only a business and technology context to go by currently, So initially my questions would be about clarifying the seemingly inconsistent political MO of our parties]

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Mods, Would it be considered appropriate to post a cartoon of John Howard depicted as a urinal now? (I have one, it is really quite good).

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

John Howard was/is a lying ars***le ! Personally I can't stand the sneaky little ****!

He told us we would never have a GST ... Lie.
He told us people were throwing their children overboard ... Lie.
He told us average Australians were better off than ever with work choices ... Lie.

He took away my guns. This place is swarming with imported pest species and I can't even get a BB gun to try and control them ... That sucks.

All in all, I think he should be prosecuted for disseminating false and misleading information, I would be if I told as many lies to the public as he has.

And if for some reason he can't be charged then stone him in public. ;)

Yes, I remember some of that although I don't know if that was Howard's doing or not really. I know you can't own a slingshot or import one. That's just plain silliness.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Yes, I remember some of that although I don't know if that was Howard's doing or not really. I know you can't own a slingshot or import one. That's just plain silliness.

LOL, look out there, as Johnny is [well was] the poster child for 'National Security'. That begs the question: Did John Howard personally endorse the nationwide 'Dob in your neighbour' fear campaign? Likely yes, possibly no, 'they' only used his picture on the front of every mail-out to Australian households! The only thing that really occurred to me at the time was 'What an odd thing to do!'. It kind of felt like a throw-back to the days of 'Reds under the Bed' (note: before my birth).

Most recently there has been a mail-out about drug problems with youth... Well I'm not going to go there... Let's just say it was rather reminiscent of the police training film from 'Fear and Loathing'.... and that I was grilled by my mother for about four hours to explain certain 'symptoms' of anxiety and a tendency to talk too much.

Nice one Johnny... Up Yours Mate.

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Yes, I remember some of that although I don't know if that was Howard's doing or not really. I know you can't own a slingshot or import one. That's just plain silliness.

LOL, look out there, as Johnny is [well was] the poster child for 'National Security'. That begs the question: Did John Howard personally endorse the nationwide 'Dob in your neighbour' fear campaign? Likely yes, possibly no, 'they' only used his picture on the front of every mail-out to Australian households! The only thing that really occurred to me at the time was 'What an odd thing to do!'. It kind of felt like a throw-back to the days of 'Reds under the Bed' (note: before my birth).

Most recently there has been a mail-out about drug problems with youth... Well I'm not going to go there... Let's just say it was rather reminiscent of the police training film from 'Fear and Loathing'.... and that I was grilled by my mother for about four hours to explain certain 'symptoms' of anxiety and a tendency to talk too much.

Nice one Johnny... Up Yours Mate.

Jason

Haha. Well, it's been a few years since I lived in Australia. I moved away from there just before the September 11th attack.

I will confess that I am unfamiliar with the domestic policy since then and can only speak to the foreign policy impressions I have of Howard from an American interest point of view.

re: your 'fear and loathing' comment. I must be older than you are but I remember as a teenager being suspected by my parents of 'being on drugs' because I enjoyed spicy foods like mexican salsa and so on. I think she read that in a scary parenting book or something. (I was not using drugs of any kind actually as a teenager). I just recall it funny getting weird looks while dipping tortilla chips into picante sauce jars. :-P

Anyway, sometimes when I get to talk with her we've laughed about that. Spicy foods!?=drugs. Cases of curry and picante sauce in your trunk!?=drug dealer I guess or lots of stoned friends.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!