One of Those Days (Oct 11 2007)


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Profile Matt Lebofsky
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Message 658073 - Posted: 11 Oct 2007, 23:28:33 UTC

I was going to get some programming done today but Dave needed php upgraded on the BOINC server, which was running Fedora Core 6. FC6 didn't have a sufficiently advanced php in its repositories, so this was as good a time as any to yum the system up to Fedora Core 7. This was slow, but worked like a charm.

Except I then realized the trac system (used for BOINC's web based public software development) was toasted due to the upgrade. It took over two hours of hair pulling, scouring log files, removing/reinstalling various software packages, poring through barely informative pages only found in Google's cache.. I don't really understand how what we ultimately did fixed the problem, but we seem to be out of the woods, more or less.

I hate to say it, but trac is written in python, and I've never had any positive experiences with this programming language. Every six months some random python program explodes as it is utterly sensitive to version upgrades, and tracing the problems is impossible as the code is difficult to read and scoured all over the system in vaguely named files. Others keep trying to convince me python is the bee's knees, but I just can't see it. I started out writing raw machine code on my Apple II+, so to me C is the pinnacle of programming languages (not C++). I'll shut up now before I further offend python programmers/developers.

- Matt

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Message 658080 - Posted: 11 Oct 2007, 23:38:46 UTC

Any idea why this is still in pending state?

application SETI@home Enhanced
created 1 Oct 2007 12:20:29 UTC
name 07mr07am.21938.8252.7.6.218
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success tasks 5, 10, 5
624496286 3361574 1 Oct 2007 12:20:37 UTC 8 Oct 2007 14:20:23 UTC Over Success Done 19,456.56 54.33 pending
624496285 3831624 1 Oct 2007 12:43:48 UTC 8 Oct 2007 22:21:26 UTC Over Success Done 8,601.52 54.33 pending

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Message 658103 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 0:10:23 UTC

I hate to say it, but trac is written in python, and I've never had any positive experiences with this programming language. Every six months some random python program explodes as it is utterly sensitive to version upgrades, and tracing the problems is impossible as the code is difficult to read and scoured all over the system in vaguely named files. Others keep trying to convince me python is the bee's knees, but I just can't see it. I started out writing raw machine code on my Apple II+, so to me C is the pinnacle of programming languages (not C++). I'll shut up now before I further offend python programmers/developers.


Don't worry, I know some programmers who don't like Python, too...
You're not alone! :)


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Message 658245 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 6:53:30 UTC - in response to Message 658073.

I was going to get some programming done today but Dave needed php upgraded on the BOINC server, which was running Fedora Core 6. FC6 didn't have a sufficiently advanced php in its repositories, so this was as good a time as any to yum the system up to Fedora Core 7. This was slow, but worked like a charm.

Except I then realized the trac system (used for BOINC's web based public software development) was toasted due to the upgrade. It took over two hours of hair pulling, scouring log files, removing/reinstalling various software packages, poring through barely informative pages only found in Google's cache.. I don't really understand how what we ultimately did fixed the problem, but we seem to be out of the woods, more or less.

I hate to say it, but trac is written in python, and I've never had any positive experiences with this programming language. Every six months some random python program explodes as it is utterly sensitive to version upgrades, and tracing the problems is impossible as the code is difficult to read and scoured all over the system in vaguely named files. Others keep trying to convince me python is the bee's knees, but I just can't see it. I started out writing raw machine code on my Apple II+, so to me C is the pinnacle of programming languages (not C++). I'll shut up now before I further offend python programmers/developers.

- Matt

Matt, s#rew the python people................... This is SETI. Watch the poofs flip when something so big happens that its gotta go public!!! No laundry big enuff for all the clean shorts needed then. Yours faithfully from down-under.

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Message 658289 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 10:11:42 UTC - in response to Message 658073.

I was going to get some programming done today but Dave needed php upgraded on the BOINC server, which was running Fedora Core 6. FC6 didn't have a sufficiently advanced php in its repositories, so this was as good a time as any to yum the system up to Fedora Core 7. This was slow, but worked like a charm.

Except I then realized the trac system (used for BOINC's web based public software development) was toasted due to the upgrade. It took over two hours of hair pulling, scouring log files, removing/reinstalling various software packages, poring through barely informative pages only found in Google's cache.. I don't really understand how what we ultimately did fixed the problem, but we seem to be out of the woods, more or less.

I hate to say it, but trac is written in python, and I've never had any positive experiences with this programming language. Every six months some random python program explodes as it is utterly sensitive to version upgrades, and tracing the problems is impossible as the code is difficult to read and scoured all over the system in vaguely named files. Others keep trying to convince me python is the bee's knees, but I just can't see it. I started out writing raw machine code on my Apple II+, so to me C is the pinnacle of programming languages (not C++). I'll shut up now before I further offend python programmers/developers.

- Matt



I have often considered myself a young dinosaur because I sometimes wonder if things might not need to be changed just because they can be changed (The latest example might well be Vista, but I digress). Anyway, thanks for the effort, sorry about your hair - the parts you pulled out should grow back eventually, and good luck the next time it breaks.

- Jim


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Message 658403 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 14:39:38 UTC

I noticed that the graph representing the purge processes has pretty much flatlined. At first I wondered whether a server needed to be kicked, but then realized that perhaps the million or so remaining workunits are those which have been tagged as READY to be purged but are being held on file for a day or two for "peeking" at their status by us crunchers. In other words, they are purposely not being purged immediately upon completion by all participating crunchers. Am I correct in this analysis? Thanks.

Whit

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Message 658408 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 14:47:09 UTC - in response to Message 658073.

I don't know anybody who likes Python.
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Message 658477 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 18:19:44 UTC

PHP = fairly stable
Python = not stable
Python3D (what I tried once) = forget it

Did you know Yum is based on Python? :)

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Message 658602 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 21:38:39 UTC

Hmm... Couldn't you have compiled PHP from source, avoiding the OS upgrade and the lost hair? ;)

Also, many things in Trac are still broken :( It's a newer version than before (so Trac itself got upgraded too) but there are LESS features! No tags, no wiki templates, no admin pages, and login status is intermittent. I think login itself is broken too, but I will not click Logout to test (might never get back in).
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Message 658611 - Posted: 12 Oct 2007, 22:06:38 UTC

I talked to Rom this morning - last I heard (a while ago) he was going to get the remaining broken parts of BOINC/trac fixed.

As for db_purge - there will always be a queue since we keep around results sent in within the last 24 hours so users can see the finished results on their account pages. Otherwise, as soon as a workunit is assimilated all the results would disappear from the database and people will barely have a chance to inspect their completed work.

- Matt
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Message 658829 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 3:48:20 UTC - in response to Message 658073.

I was going to get some programming done today but Dave needed php upgraded on the BOINC server, which was running Fedora Core 6. FC6 didn't have a sufficiently advanced php in its repositories, so this was as good a time as any to yum the system up to Fedora Core 7. This was slow, but worked like a charm.

Except I then realized the trac system (used for BOINC's web based public software development) was toasted due to the upgrade. It took over two hours of hair pulling, scouring log files, removing/reinstalling various software packages, poring through barely informative pages only found in Google's cache.. I don't really understand how what we ultimately did fixed the problem, but we seem to be out of the woods, more or less.

I hate to say it, but trac is written in python, and I've never had any positive experiences with this programming language. Every six months some random python program explodes as it is utterly sensitive to version upgrades, and tracing the problems is impossible as the code is difficult to read and scoured all over the system in vaguely named files. Others keep trying to convince me python is the bee's knees, but I just can't see it. I started out writing raw machine code on my Apple II+, so to me C is the pinnacle of programming languages (not C++). I'll shut up now before I further offend python programmers/developers.

- Matt


6502 such a nice chip. For me the first was IBM 1130. Back then we had to think about how to squeeze the last bit out of the system. 8k of core and punch cards. Couldn't imagine running SETI on that!
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Message 658845 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 4:23:06 UTC

On a more positive note than people not liking python. Good to see in the news that 2 days ago (October 11th) the Allen Telescope Array (ATA) came online and is now hopefully doing some good work for you guys at SETI and the Radio Astronomers at the University of California. Should be good when it is fully up and running and searching for that "signal" that everyone wants to find!
Think vacations thoughts Matt and don't get too stressed in your first week back from Kiwiland or just think of halloween and all the nice pieces of candy you guys can munch on in the office.
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Message 658980 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 12:19:33 UTC - in response to Message 658080.
Last modified: 13 Oct 2007, 12:24:30 UTC

Any idea why this is still in pending state?

application SETI@home Enhanced
created 1 Oct 2007 12:20:29 UTC
name 07mr07am.21938.8252.7.6.218
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success tasks 5, 10, 5
624496286 3361574 1 Oct 2007 12:20:37 UTC 8 Oct 2007 14:20:23 UTC Over Success Done 19,456.56 54.33 pending
624496285 3831624 1 Oct 2007 12:43:48 UTC 8 Oct 2007 22:21:26 UTC Over Success Done 8,601.52 54.33 pending


There probably wasn't "substantial agreement" between the two results - a third WU would be generated, crunched and assimilated in that case. (It has happened with a few of my WU's...) You may have looked at the results before the generation of the third WU. (look now...)
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Message 658984 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 12:40:55 UTC - in response to Message 658980.
Last modified: 13 Oct 2007, 12:42:36 UTC

Any idea why this is still in pending state?

application SETI@home Enhanced
created 1 Oct 2007 12:20:29 UTC
name 07mr07am.21938.8252.7.6.218
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success tasks 5, 10, 5
624496286 3361574 1 Oct 2007 12:20:37 UTC 8 Oct 2007 14:20:23 UTC Over Success Done 19,456.56 54.33 pending
624496285 3831624 1 Oct 2007 12:43:48 UTC 8 Oct 2007 22:21:26 UTC Over Success Done 8,601.52 54.33 pending


There probably wasn't "substantial agreement" between the two results - a third WU would be generated, crunched and assimilated in that case. (It has happened with a few of my WU's...) You may have looked at the results before the generation of the third WU. (look now...)

Ummmm. I just have: the workunit is 163360415. There's no sign of a third result being called for, let alone issued.

Both 'Initial replication' results reported on 8 October (5 days ago): both have validation status 'Initial', not 'Checked, but no consensus yet' as they would if they were following the normal path you're suggesting.

Definitely an anomaly here.

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Message 659117 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 16:19:54 UTC - in response to Message 658984.

There probably wasn't "substantial agreement" between the two results - a third WU would be generated, crunched and assimilated in that case. (It has happened with a few of my WU's...) You may have looked at the results before the generation of the third WU. (look now...)

Ummmm. I just have: the workunit is 163360415. There's no sign of a third result being called for, let alone issued.

Both 'Initial replication' results reported on 8 October (5 days ago): both have validation status 'Initial', not 'Checked, but no consensus yet' as they would if they were following the normal path you're suggesting.

Definitely an anomaly here.

Agreed; there should have been a 3rd sent if there is no consensus.
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Message 659189 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 18:49:45 UTC - in response to Message 658845.

On a more positive note than people not liking python. Good to see in the news that 2 days ago (October 11th) the Allen Telescope Array (ATA) came online and is now hopefully doing some good work for you guys at SETI and the Radio Astronomers at the University of California. Should be good when it is fully up and running and searching for that "signal" that everyone wants to find!
Think vacations thoughts Matt and don't get too stressed in your first week back from Kiwiland or just think of halloween and all the nice pieces of candy you guys can munch on in the office.


I don't think Allen is gonna be too much of an asset for SetiatHome. It's too small. Right now it's only 1/8 complete but even when it's complete it'll be too small. One hectare versus four or so used by the Multibeam Receiver (about half the dish). I don't know whether using Allen as an interferometer would help Seti@Home or not. Maybe concentrating that hectare over a very small area would help in special cases if that's what it could do.

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Message 659305 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 21:54:40 UTC - in response to Message 658984.

Any idea why this is still in pending state?

application SETI@home Enhanced
created 1 Oct 2007 12:20:29 UTC
name 07mr07am.21938.8252.7.6.218
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success tasks 5, 10, 5
624496286 3361574 1 Oct 2007 12:20:37 UTC 8 Oct 2007 14:20:23 UTC Over Success Done 19,456.56 54.33 pending
624496285 3831624 1 Oct 2007 12:43:48 UTC 8 Oct 2007 22:21:26 UTC Over Success Done 8,601.52 54.33 pending


There probably wasn't "substantial agreement" between the two results - a third WU would be generated, crunched and assimilated in that case. (It has happened with a few of my WU's...) You may have looked at the results before the generation of the third WU. (look now...)

Ummmm. I just have: the workunit is 163360415. There's no sign of a third result being called for, let alone issued.

Both 'Initial replication' results reported on 8 October (5 days ago): both have validation status 'Initial', not 'Checked, but no consensus yet' as they would if they were following the normal path you're suggesting.

Definitely an anomaly here.

I also have a work unit that has issues. The work unit id is 158494921. It has been out there a few weeks so this is not a new problem.

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Message 659453 - Posted: 14 Oct 2007, 3:17:13 UTC - in response to Message 658845.

On a more positive note than people not liking python. Good to see in the news that 2 days ago (October 11th) the Allen Telescope Array (ATA) came online and is now hopefully doing some good work for you guys at SETI and the Radio Astronomers at the University of California. Should be good when it is fully up and running and searching for that "signal" that everyone wants to find!
Think vacations thoughts Matt and don't get too stressed in your first week back from Kiwiland or just think of halloween and all the nice pieces of candy you guys can munch on in the office.


The short answer according to Eric Korpela, the Allen Telescope Array data will probably not make it over to SETI@Home. The ATA is owned by the SETI Institute which is a separate entity and has nothing to do with SETI@Home.
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Message 659854 - Posted: 14 Oct 2007, 20:51:33 UTC

I hate to add to Matt's already full plate, but...

Could someone at the project give the "Client Connection Stats" script a swift kick in the butt? It hasn't been working (every time I've looked, at least!) for the last two weeks...
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Message boards : Technical News : One of Those Days (Oct 11 2007)

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