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Heat - The Dreaded Enemy
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Osiris30 Send message Joined: 19 Aug 07 Posts: 264 Credit: 41,917,631 RAC: 0 |
Its known as electromigration, and I have seen a couple of CPUs slowly degrade in OCability due to its effects. Sadly, my AXP2000+ @ 2200mhz is starting to feel it Just a point of order. Electromigration is present in non-OC'ed CPUs as well, just to a lesser extent. |
Astro Send message Joined: 16 Apr 02 Posts: 8026 Credit: 600,015 RAC: 0 |
Okay Crunchers! Are you saying the cpu temps are LOWER than Motherboard temps?? Were you running Seti on all cores? (or some other project app) If so, what kind of Zalman cooler are you using? |
archae86 Send message Joined: 31 Aug 99 Posts: 909 Credit: 1,582,816 RAC: 0 |
Just a point of order. Electromigration is present in non-OC'ed CPUs as well, just to a lesser extent. Sure, as so also are pretty much all the other failure mechanisms. But electromigration for many design/process combinations has often been at so low a level that as a practical matter only initially defective structures failed from it in the field. Years after I went to work in the business, the big IC company I worked for had never seen a field EM failure (we made more than one later). Running hotter, whether from overclocking, or just from BOINCing a machine which would otherwise be idle, makes many, in fact most, failure mechanisms worse. Running at higher voltage makes another set of mechanisms worse, with appreciable overlap between the two. Manufacturers tend to know when they have a real field electromigration failure problem with a part. It is one of the very, very few mechanisms for which the failure rate rises with time. This is seriously nasty. By the time you know you have a problem, the check is already in the mail for a very much larger one than what you have seen. As we generally expect decreasing failure rates with time, this stands out like a sore thumb if anyone is paying attention. |
IROC Send message Joined: 27 Jun 99 Posts: 57 Credit: 11,380,977 RAC: 0 |
The new quad is running at a lower temp than the 3.2GHz PentD that it replaced. As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, the PentD was running about 65+C. The quad is running 40C with all cores running SETI. Zalman CNPS9500. IROC |
Ralf02061973 Send message Joined: 24 Jul 00 Posts: 54 Credit: 9,983,656 RAC: 8 |
about temps from core2 not all temp programs read the core2 temp right in some programs u must add 15°C in some other u must take off 15°C and some is near correct so think about it Boinc runs here on: Intel i7-3770K + IntelHD4000 Android-Stick-ARM-Cotex-A17 Sony-Z5C-ARM-Cortex-A53/A57 Nvidia GT-630 / Nvidia GTX-750Ti |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13715 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 |
in some programs u must add 15°C in some other u must take off 15°C and some is near correct That is the case with all motherboards. Grant Darwin NT |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13715 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 |
The new quad is running at a lower temp than the 3.2GHz PentD that it replaced. As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, the PentD was running about 65+C. Not surprising. Generally & Core 2 Duo will run at almost half the temperature & do twice the work of a P4. Grant Darwin NT |
Careface Send message Joined: 6 Jun 03 Posts: 128 Credit: 16,561,684 RAC: 0 |
True, but you can't deny its effects can still be noticed if its slow enough. You seem to know your stuff, I have a question for you. Could you explain "coil-whine" to me? Im almost 100% certain I have a cpu suffering from it. making high pitched noises (yes, the cpu, not the mobo or anything else - ive checked) whenever its under load. At least, I think its called coil whine.. the ocforum I frequent doesnt have a lot of posts on the topic.. |
archae86 Send message Joined: 31 Aug 99 Posts: 909 Credit: 1,582,816 RAC: 0 |
Could you explain "coil-whine" to me? Im almost 100% certain I have a cpu suffering from it. making high pitched noises (yes, the cpu, not the mobo or anything else - ive checked) whenever its under load. I think people use that term somewhat generically for acoustic noise produced by mechanical vibration of parts induced by electrical variation at frequencies in the audible range. I think it gets the name because the most common specific electrical component to do this is an inductor (aka coil). PC motherboards commonly have electrical components right next to the CPU to perform the final conversion to the actual operating voltage of the CPU, including capacitors, inductors, and active electronic components. This assembly is reputed to make a nasty whine on some models of motherboards. Another common place to find that sort of sound is in drivers for LCD displays. I have an ancient HP palmtop which you could hear from several inches away. I doubt your CPU itself is making the sound, though the power conversion circuitry right next to it on the motherboard would be a good candidate. |
michael37 Send message Joined: 23 Jul 99 Posts: 311 Credit: 6,955,447 RAC: 0 |
Well, I just suffered my first serious hardware fault from the dreaded enemy after 8 years of running Seti. This computer had an Athlon XP 1800+ which was a fairly quick CPU back in 2002. It ran seti non-stop from the moment I put my desktop together. A few days ago, it would post, but would not boot into the operating system. I took it apart, checked the CPU and found a crack on the substrate right next to the chip. I'd say it was definitely heat. I have not overclocked the chip, and I used a standard AMD cooler. R.I.P. Luckily, I had an Athlon XP 2500+ lying around and not used =) So, I expect my RAC to go up now :) |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
A few days ago, it would post, but would not boot into the operating system. I took it apart, checked the CPU and found a crack on the substrate right next to the chip. I'd say it was definitely heat. I have not overclocked the chip, and I used a standard AMD cooler. Ouch! Sounds like poor manufacturing (perhaps a bad batch). I still have an Athlon Classic running at 1.4GHz using a ceramic package that is working well 24/7. |
GALIFREAN Send message Joined: 14 Jul 99 Posts: 148 Credit: 28,658 RAC: 0 |
Just wanted to share my experience. Had a problem with booting, locking up, overheating etc... After hours of head banging and hair pulling, I found that the heatsink was not properly seated. I failed to notice that there is a step on it, and I had it oriented incorrectly. It appeared to be correct, and the retainers locked, but there was not 100% contact between the chip and heatsink. When I finally realized and corrected this, all the malfunctions stopped. I demand a refund. Oh wait, I didn't pay to join, I VOLUNTEERED! |
archae86 Send message Joined: 31 Aug 99 Posts: 909 Credit: 1,582,816 RAC: 0 |
but there was not 100% contact between the chip and heatsink That would be very bad indeed, even if the gap were filled with thermal paste--even worse if not. Thanks for sharing. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24870 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Just to let everyone know. M/B is faulty. Had another system bulider check it & he got 98% main board temp with hd 1 reading 261%. Supplier sending out new board, should receive Wednesday/Thursday this week. |
michael37 Send message Joined: 23 Jul 99 Posts: 311 Credit: 6,955,447 RAC: 0 |
A few days ago, it would post, but would not boot into the operating system. I took it apart, checked the CPU and found a crack on the substrate right next to the chip. I'd say it was definitely heat. I have not overclocked the chip, and I used a standard AMD cooler. Maybe :) I can't complain though, this CPU had been crunching Seti between 2002 and 2007. |
Osiris30 Send message Joined: 19 Aug 07 Posts: 264 Credit: 41,917,631 RAC: 0 |
I have an interesting heat problem at the moment... Namely the heat of the CPUs affecting the room they are in. We have a room segmented off for training at the office and with all the PCs in there crunching 24/7 it can get exceptionally warm when they turn down the climate control system on the weekends. Luckily winter is on the way, but I'm not sure what I'll do come the summer (although hopefully by then I will have moved said CPUs, which are P4 dual cores into the main office and replaced then with new C2Ds that should run a LOT cooler). I wish BOINC had the ability to monitor a temp prob and shut down when the temp got above a certain point, because it must have been 110F in the room on Sat. I've asked building maint to leave the AC a little higher on the weekend, so we shall see, else I think I'll have to turn the room off until the winter sets in properly :/ |
Astro Send message Joined: 16 Apr 02 Posts: 8026 Credit: 600,015 RAC: 0 |
Osirius30, on the boinc manager click "advanced", then "preferences", then click on the "processor" tab. You might be able to stop boinc just on the weekends. Perhaps, just shutting down 1/4 of them on the weekend would help, or some mix. |
Mikael_Bjorkbom Send message Joined: 12 Jan 00 Posts: 6 Credit: 5,635,899 RAC: 6 |
You can actually start and stop BOINC with an application called SpeedFan and boinccmd.exe. SpeedFan can be configured to launch applications at various events. Such as when the CPU temperature rises past a certain temperature. With boinccmd you can turn on or suspend crunching. Configure SpeedFan to launch "boinccmd --set_run_mode never" when the temperature rises too high and "boinccmd --set_run_mode auto" to resume crunching when the computer has cooled off. I use this to avoid overheating in the summer. I want to take every precaution because my fan solution is a bit special. I have tried to minimize the noise, while still having enough cooling to crunch at full speed. But in the summer the ambient temperatures can be too much and then a few minutes of idle time resolves the situation. So this solution has worked very well for me. |
Bill Walker Send message Joined: 4 Sep 99 Posts: 3868 Credit: 2,697,267 RAC: 0 |
At the risk of hijacking the thread: can somebody help a noob with information on "acceptable" CPU temperatures? I've been running SETI and some other projects on a Toshiba Satellite A100 with a Pentium M dual core processor for over a year now. The exit air temperature seemed to be going up lately, so I downloaded the Intel TAT to look at the temps. The CPUs were running at 67 to 70C. After blowing out (but not disassembling) the air path, this dropped to 60 to 62C. Is this cause for concern? Where can I find the manufacturer's recommend operating temps? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24870 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
At the risk of hijacking the thread: can somebody help a noob with information on "acceptable" CPU temperatures? As you've had it for a year, try stipping it down completely & rebuild, giving each part a through clean. Then re-apply fresh thermal paste. you should notice a significant difference. Also make sure that you throughly clean each fan. What I tend to do is to throughly clean the case as dust can build up in places that are not noticed at a glance. I've just recently installed a new motherboard on my main system & the amount of dust build up in the case was unbelievable. |
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