Heat - The Dreaded Enemy


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Message 646961 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 3:56:48 UTC

Background:
Pent D 3.2GHZ, OC 3.4GHz
1GB RAM
Zalman CNPS9500 cooler. Previously Thermatake i1

Never had a problem with this processor, except I couldn't OC it much. Anyway, starting last week, my temperature monitor started complaining about the CPU temp and I found the rig restarted a few times. I started to monitor temp and was seeing regular 64-68C temps. Intel data indicates 68.5 is max for this CPU. Before this, it would run in the high 40s to mid 50s degrees C. Figuring this was the end of this CPU, I went ahead and got my new quad. I had access to a QX6800, but had a strange feeling about it, so I passed. A brand new QX6700 is waiting at UPS for me. :)

I thought my Thermaltake cooler was not up to the task so I bought a Zalman. I turned the speed back to stock, so it is running at 3.2GHz now. Vcore is 1.2, CPU temp is 67C, and MB temp is 39C. Room temp is around 72F. The case is a Thermaltake Armor with a 120mm in the front and back and an 80 in the top. I checked airflow and its running front to back. The air exiting the back is warm at best.

Anyway, any ideas why this chip has started to overheat?

Thanks,
E.
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Message 646975 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 4:25:34 UTC

Either the fan isn't running, the clamps holding the heatsink down is having trouble, or the compound is dried up or some other malfunction. Atleast that's what I'd check.

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Message 646983 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 4:49:44 UTC

Cleaned it out recently? A little dust built up on the heat sink can really make a difference. Canned 'air' is a good thing.

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Message 647131 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 14:41:31 UTC - in response to Message 646961.

Hardcore OC-ers know that OC decreases the life of a CPU. I'm afraid your Pentium D is on its last legs. I can't remember the physical reason for it, but I think with Google searching you could find out. You'll need to replace the chip soon.

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Message 647139 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 14:59:25 UTC - in response to Message 647131.

Hardcore OC-ers know that OC decreases the life of a CPU. I'm afraid your Pentium D is on its last legs. I can't remember the physical reason for it, but I think with Google searching you could find out. You'll need to replace the chip soon.


I don't know whether people would call this extreme, but I strip down my systems once a year & give them a thorough clean, including fresh thermal paste.
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Message 647343 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 19:40:25 UTC

When I noticed the temps high, I figured the cooler was not working well. I pulled the fan and cleaned the fins. No change. I did not remove it or check to see if there was any bowing of the clamp. The Thermaltake was in the computer for 4-6 months running fine, then it started to get hot. The Thermaltake is also one of their quiet versions, so maybe it didn't have enough fan airflow. I bought the Zalman as it has done well in reviews and had a higher speed fan. 1800 rpm (Thermaltake) vs. 2600 rpm (Zalman). Heat sink compound was not dried. I easily removed it with a cloth and then cleaned the old off before adding the new and mounting the Zalman.

Any thing else I might check?

Thanks,
IROC
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Message 647349 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 19:45:58 UTC - in response to Message 647343.

When I noticed the temps high, I figured the cooler was not working well. I pulled the fan and cleaned the fins. No change. I did not remove it or check to see if there was any bowing of the clamp. The Thermaltake was in the computer for 4-6 months running fine, then it started to get hot. The Thermaltake is also one of their quiet versions, so maybe it didn't have enough fan airflow. I bought the Zalman as it has done well in reviews and had a higher speed fan. 1800 rpm (Thermaltake) vs. 2600 rpm (Zalman). Heat sink compound was not dried. I easily removed it with a cloth and then cleaned the old off before adding the new and mounting the Zalman.

Any thing else I might check?

Thanks,
IROC


Uuuh I donnaknow Global warming maybe;-)

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Message 647355 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 19:56:52 UTC

??? HMMMM, I assume you've checked the cpu volts? I'm running low on ideas. I have never seen a cpu gradually degrade, they usually just stop. But I admit, I haven't seen everything, or overclock any more than mildly.

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Message 647519 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 23:37:25 UTC - in response to Message 647343.

When I noticed the temps high, I figured the cooler was not working well. I pulled the fan and cleaned the fins. No change. I did not remove it or check to see if there was any bowing of the clamp. The Thermaltake was in the computer for 4-6 months running fine, then it started to get hot. The Thermaltake is also one of their quiet versions, so maybe it didn't have enough fan airflow. I bought the Zalman as it has done well in reviews and had a higher speed fan. 1800 rpm (Thermaltake) vs. 2600 rpm (Zalman). Heat sink compound was not dried. I easily removed it with a cloth and then cleaned the old off before adding the new and mounting the Zalman.

Any thing else I might check?

Thanks,
IROC

Two possible reasons for the higher temps, Zalman and Thermaltake, Try Thermalright or Tuniq instead. My 2 cents.
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Message 647529 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 23:47:57 UTC - in response to Message 647355.

??? HMMMM, I assume you've checked the cpu volts? I'm running low on ideas. I have never seen a cpu gradually degrade, they usually just stop. But I admit, I haven't seen everything, or overclock any more than mildly.


You might be onto something here though. It's entirely possible the powersupply has caps that are failing and hence over-volting the CPU a bit. Recommend checking the voltages in the bios and trying a new PS.

Also I would recommend checking other things in the case.. it may be ambiant heat coming from another component. You'd be amazed what 5 degrees of case temp can do to CPU temp.

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Message 647573 - Posted: 24 Sep 2007, 1:17:41 UTC - in response to Message 647519.

When I noticed the temps high, I figured the cooler was not working well. I pulled the fan and cleaned the fins. No change. I did not remove it or check to see if there was any bowing of the clamp. The Thermaltake was in the computer for 4-6 months running fine, then it started to get hot. The Thermaltake is also one of their quiet versions, so maybe it didn't have enough fan airflow. I bought the Zalman as it has done well in reviews and had a higher speed fan. 1800 rpm (Thermaltake) vs. 2600 rpm (Zalman). Heat sink compound was not dried. I easily removed it with a cloth and then cleaned the old off before adding the new and mounting the Zalman.

Any thing else I might check?

Thanks,
IROC

Two possible reasons for the higher temps, Zalman and Thermaltake, Try Thermalright or Tuniq instead. My 2 cents.


My 2 cents. I was a Zalman fan but it was suggested that I try the Theremaltake Big Typhoon. Here is a copy of an earlier thread.
I am using a Zalman CNPS9700. [url]=http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=229&code=009 link [\\url]With room temp upto 80f it keeps the CPU at about 50c at normal clock speed. If you plan to OC or your room temp is much higher, you will have to go with water cooling or a phase change cooler. Your observations about thermal dynamics go beyond my expertise. I just buy them and try them and found the Zalman to be about the best HSF available. There are some larger ones that I have not tried. I could not fine an "Envotech Ultra-X" So I think you mean the Enzotech. I looked at the Enzotech Ultra-X and just don't see how it can keep up with the Zalman. I could be wrong but the Zalman effectively has 6 heat pipes and a greater radiator area. Take a look at the link and see what you think.


Have you tried the Thermaltake Big Typhoon? It's what I use on all my air cooled rigs with rather good results.



I did not try it. I run towers side by side. So I try to keep the air flow lower front to upper back. I like Thermaltake products. Most of my cases and power supplies are TT, but the Zalman's air flow works better. It is front to back. The TT's airflow is from right to left in a tower case. I will try one and see how it compares. After all you seem to be getting better results than me.


I was able to get my QX6700 up to about 3.4ghz with the TTBT. I am currently at about 3.8ghz with phase cooling.
I also upgrade the fan on the TTBT to either a Silverstone FM121 (same size as stock), or a FM122 (better airflow, but a thicker frame, you have to find 4 longer mounting screws for the fan).
I have been using Artic Silver 5 with the TTBT, and Arctic Silver Ceramique for the phase cooling.
Let us know what you find out.



Well it took a while to get the TTBT installed and tested. But you were right the TTBT is able to keep the quad cooler than the Zalman. The bigger benifit is the redution in noise. Here are my results. With 73 room temp the Zalman was able to keep the QX6700 at about 58-60 c. The TTBT has been keeping it at 44-50 c. This is based on spot checks over a week period of time. All else being equal. ie: same processor, same MB, case, etc.

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Message 647593 - Posted: 24 Sep 2007, 2:02:14 UTC

Found this and thought it was interesting.

Anyone here making use of this cpu cooler?

I would be interested in hearing how well it works.

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Message 647602 - Posted: 24 Sep 2007, 2:17:58 UTC - in response to Message 647529.

??? HMMMM, I assume you've checked the cpu volts? I'm running low on ideas. I have never seen a cpu gradually degrade, they usually just stop. But I admit, I haven't seen everything, or overclock any more than mildly.


You might be onto something here though. It's entirely possible the powersupply has caps that are failing and hence over-volting the CPU a bit. Recommend checking the voltages in the bios and trying a new PS.

Also I would recommend checking other things in the case.. it may be ambiant heat coming from another component. You'd be amazed what 5 degrees of case temp can do to CPU temp.


Good point... I added an extra hard drive to my case, and the temps went up quite a bit. I moved them to external... and all went back to normal.

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Message 647984 - Posted: 24 Sep 2007, 16:37:00 UTC - in response to Message 647593.

Found this and thought it was interesting.

Anyone here making use of this cpu cooler?

I would be interested in hearing how well it works.

OTH
[url=http://www.coolitsystems.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=133[/url

is an even more interesting cooling product

;)
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Message 648009 - Posted: 24 Sep 2007, 17:20:39 UTC - in response to Message 646961.

<snip> Vcore is 1.2, CPU temp is 67C, and MB temp is 39C. Room temp is around 72F. </snip>


To compare... my Pentium D 805 has the same Vcore runs at 46C (full 2cpu load) mobo temp 30C and room temp around 22C (71.6F)
Used CPU-cooler:


Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

The 805 was the "warm one" from the beginning of the D-range, the CPU cooler that came with it wasn't doing the job (60-70C) and caused the CPU to go into termal panic mode.

My 2 cents... try to get the ambient temp in the case lower by checking if the in-fan isn't picking up warm air from the HD or GPU.
The air that is consumed by the Zalman could be "pre-heated" so to speak.
I have mounted an extra fan on the lower back of the side panel and this one did the trick for me... this one handles the Radeon 9600 installed.

;-)




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Message 648035 - Posted: 24 Sep 2007, 18:35:51 UTC
Last modified: 24 Sep 2007, 18:37:31 UTC

Besides the standard "clean it out" and "be sure your fan is turning" advice, I have nothing significant to add to your index of solutions here, but I thought I'd share a related experience I had a few months ago:

I had a hand-me-down compy with serious overheating problems, but fixing it turned out to not be as expensive as I was afraid it would be (in fact free)...

Turns out, the position of the CPU fan in this home-built AMD machine, left it half-way blocked by the power supply's fan--and the CPU fan was trying to blow the opposite direction!

As soon as I flipped over the CPU fan (reversing the airflow direction), the CPU temperature dropped dramitically (surprise, surprise)...

Unfortunately, my woes didn't completely end there:

I still had to set the voltages in BIOS to fail-safe levels in order to prevent frequent reboots while running Windoze XP Pro. Strangely enough, since I switched that box to Linux, I've been able to return the voltages to optimum levels, and have had no overheating related problems since! Go figure...

Anyways, that's my experience with overheating issues.
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Message 648198 - Posted: 25 Sep 2007, 0:50:51 UTC - in response to Message 646961.

Background:
Pent D 3.2GHZ, OC 3.4GHz
1GB RAM
Zalman CNPS9500 cooler. Previously Thermatake i1

Never had a problem with this processor, except I couldn't OC it much. Anyway, starting last week, my temperature monitor started complaining about the CPU temp and I found the rig restarted a few times. I started to monitor temp and was seeing regular 64-68C temps. Intel data indicates 68.5 is max for this CPU. Before this, it would run in the high 40s to mid 50s degrees C. Figuring this was the end of this CPU, I went ahead and got my new quad. I had access to a QX6800, but had a strange feeling about it, so I passed. A brand new QX6700 is waiting at UPS for me. :)

I thought my Thermaltake cooler was not up to the task so I bought a Zalman. I turned the speed back to stock, so it is running at 3.2GHz now. Vcore is 1.2, CPU temp is 67C, and MB temp is 39C. Room temp is around 72F. The case is a Thermaltake Armor with a 120mm in the front and back and an 80 in the top. I checked airflow and its running front to back. The air exiting the back is warm at best.

Anyway, any ideas why this chip has started to overheat?

Thanks,
E.


I totally missed your MB temp... 39C is rather high.. the hotter the air around the CPU the less heat it can carry off... that's like the source of your high CPU temp (it's not linear either.. i.e. 1C of case temp doesn't mean 1C of CPU temp). If you could get your case close to room temp (30C) you'd probably drop ~15C off the CPU temp (again you will reach a point of diminishing returns on that side of the curve too).

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Message 649563 - Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 4:39:37 UTC - in response to Message 648198.
Last modified: 27 Sep 2007, 4:42:01 UTC

Just upgraded & rebuilt 2 machines in network.

1: amd 64 3200 - Processor Temp 30.5%, Processor (diode) 26%, Main Board 31%, Power 36%, HD's 28%.

2: amd 64 x2 3800 - Processor Temp 37%, Core 1 49%, Core 2 49%, Main Board 94%,
Power 42%, HD's 48%.

10 minutes ago, after an auto update, 2 rebooted, got correct bios code, but nothing. On checking cpu, fan not rotating. Switched off, checked hsf & cpu, looked okay so cleaned & reapplied paste. Rebooted, system strated, temps the same except mainboard up 2% to 96%.

Shut down system - Ideas anyone, because I'm at a loss as to why this is happening.

[edit] no OC'ing on any system [edit/]

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Message 649579 - Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 5:42:05 UTC - in response to Message 649563.

Just upgraded & rebuilt 2 machines in network.

1: amd 64 3200 - Processor Temp 30.5%, Processor (diode) 26%, Main Board 31%, Power 36%, HD's 28%.

2: amd 64 x2 3800 - Processor Temp 37%, Core 1 49%, Core 2 49%, Main Board 94%,
Power 42%, HD's 48%.

10 minutes ago, after an auto update, 2 rebooted, got correct bios code, but nothing. On checking cpu, fan not rotating. Switched off, checked hsf & cpu, looked okay so cleaned & reapplied paste. Rebooted, system strated, temps the same except mainboard up 2% to 96%.

Shut down system - Ideas anyone, because I'm at a loss as to why this is happening.

[edit] no OC'ing on any system [edit/]

On "2" that mainboard temp is v high, is heat sink on northbridge, or equiv, there seated properly etc.
I've also noticed on couple of rigs i've built that fitting better hs/fans on cpu can rob airflow to from critical components, like northbridge and voltage regulators. The heatpipe ones with vertical radiator for instance. Fitting side panel fan in appropriate place and/or better rear panel fan can help.

On one older AthlonXP mobo, donated after upgrade, I did have to go to better northbridge hs with fan to reduce mainboard temp. After that it was overclockable, it hadn't been before.

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Message 649615 - Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 8:27:11 UTC - in response to Message 649579.

Just upgraded & rebuilt 2 machines in network.

1: amd 64 3200 - Processor Temp 30.5%, Processor (diode) 26%, Main Board 31%, Power 36%, HD's 28%.

2: amd 64 x2 3800 - Processor Temp 37%, Core 1 49%, Core 2 49%, Main Board 94%,
Power 42%, HD's 48%.

10 minutes ago, after an auto update, 2 rebooted, got correct bios code, but nothing. On checking cpu, fan not rotating. Switched off, checked hsf & cpu, looked okay so cleaned & reapplied paste. Rebooted, system strated, temps the same except mainboard up 2% to 96%.

Shut down system - Ideas anyone, because I'm at a loss as to why this is happening.

[edit] no OC'ing on any system [edit/]

On "2" that mainboard temp is v high, is heat sink on northbridge, or equiv, there seated properly etc.
I've also noticed on couple of rigs i've built that fitting better hs/fans on cpu can rob airflow to from critical components, like northbridge and voltage regulators. The heatpipe ones with vertical radiator for instance. Fitting side panel fan in appropriate place and/or better rear panel fan can help.

On one older AthlonXP mobo, donated after upgrade, I did have to go to better northbridge hs with fan to reduce mainboard temp. After that it was overclockable, it hadn't been before.



Thanks, will look into it & let you know how it turns out.
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