The €uro...


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Politics : The €uro...

1 · 2 · Next
Author Message
Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 644486 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 21:09:27 UTC - in response to Message 642377.
Last modified: 20 Sep 2007, 0:15:42 UTC

Just kill the Euro. Please.


Why?


EDIT: I create this thread to take some off topic discussions about the Euro away from this thread, a discussion which is kind of a hijack of the thread.


____________
"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 644506 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 21:59:32 UTC - in response to Message 644486.

Just kill the Euro. Please.


Why?



At least in Germany, the average people had only disadvantages since then. When the Euro was introduced, all wages were divided by 1.96, but the numbers at the prizes remained the same, only the currency symbol changed. It's been an almost 100% inflation that time. So I'm for undoing the Euro.
____________
Account frozen...

Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 644546 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 23:15:13 UTC - in response to Message 644506.
Last modified: 19 Sep 2007, 23:17:56 UTC

Just kill the Euro. Please.


Why?



At least in Germany, the average people had only disadvantages since then. When the Euro was introduced, all wages were divided by 1.96, but the numbers at the prizes remained the same, only the currency symbol changed. It's been an almost 100% inflation that time. So I'm for undoing the Euro.


I am aware of the economical problems in Germany when you implemented the €uro, and I don't know enough about your country's economical policy to know why these wasn't prevented. As you know we have voted to stay out of and have been granted exemptions of the EMU, so we still have our own currency.

The fact is that the EU is working towards all countries in EU to join the EMU after the ratification of Maastricht Treaty. I foresee that also my country will change to the €uro after some years. But that is my opinion.

But I am interested in why Rush, the inveterate opponent of all kinds of economical policies as macro economic interventions from the state in regulating the economy in the society, monetary policy, fiscal policy, or our local specialty here in my country, incomes policy, wants to get rid of the €uro, as it is implemented to create that level of free trade and free economy as the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty set the stage for. He, as that liberal he seems to be, should greet any means which support a free economy in society without any interventions and regulations from the government welcome?


____________
"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Profile Sirius B
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 9295
Credit: 1,363,177
RAC: 1,690
United Kingdom
Message 644595 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 0:25:44 UTC - in response to Message 644546.


I am aware of the economical problems in Germany when you implemented the €uro, and I don't know enough about your country's economical policy to know why these wasn't prevented. As you know we have voted to stay out of and have been granted exemptions of the EMU, so we still have our own currency.

The fact is that the EU is working towards all countries in EU to join the EMU after the ratification of Maastricht Treaty. I foresee that also my country will change to the €uro after some years. But that is my opinion.

But I am interested in why Rush, the inveterate opponent of all kinds of economical policies as macro economic interventions from the state in regulating the economy in the society, monetary policy, fiscal policy, or our local specialty here in my country, incomes policy, wants to get rid of the €uro, as it is implemented to create that level of free trade and free economy as the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty set the stage for. He, as that liberal he seems to be, should greet any means which support a free economy in society without any interventions and regulations from the government welcome?


But that is the problem. Once Brussels have all countries under the one currency, they want one income tax policy throughout the EU, as well as other polices.

Each country will then no longer be a nation state but a region of the United States Of Europe. This just won't work because the individual will no longer be in charge of their own life.

The beaurocracy will become too large & the red tape too costly.

Then there is the civil rights of the individual. For example, I e-mail a friend which has comments with regards to a certain matter. Unfortunately for us, it gets into the public domain. It offends someone from another region. The EU Police demand my arrest & transport to the region concerned to be charged.

All this for free trade? No thanks.
____________

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 644766 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 9:18:47 UTC - in response to Message 644546.

At least in Germany, the average people had only disadvantages since then. When the Euro was introduced, all wages were divided by 1.96, but the numbers at the prizes remained the same, only the currency symbol changed. It's been an almost 100% inflation that time. So I'm for undoing the Euro.

This is stupid and not worth explaining because it demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of simple economics.

And...
He, as that liberal he seems to be, should greet any means which support a free economy in society without any interventions and regulations from the government welcome?

Well, mostly I'm joking: it can only benefit the U.S. to dump that thing, it's the only currency that could even hope to compete with the U.S. dollar as the world currency. Heh.

But don't kid yourself, it's controlled far too much to be much help offsetting the massive (and punitive) regulatory scheme that is the EU.
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 644767 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 9:20:56 UTC - in response to Message 644595.

But that is the problem. Once Brussels have all countries under the one currency, they want one income tax policy throughout the EU, as well as other polices.

Each country will then no longer be a nation state but a region of the United States Of Europe. This just won't work because the individual will no longer be in charge of their own life.

The beaurocracy will become too large & the red tape too costly.

Then there is the civil rights of the individual. For example, I e-mail a friend which has comments with regards to a certain matter. Unfortunately for us, it gets into the public domain. It offends someone from another region. The EU Police demand my arrest & transport to the region concerned to be charged.

All this for free trade? No thanks.

Especially since it isn't "free trade" by any sense of the word. Well, unless by "free trade" you mean "a whole lot more regulation than there ever was before." 8^]
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 644878 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 15:46:52 UTC - in response to Message 644766.


Well, mostly I'm joking: it can only benefit the U.S. to dump that thing, it's the only currency that could even hope to compete with the U.S. dollar as the world currency. Heh.

But don't kid yourself, it's controlled far too much to be much help offsetting the massive (and punitive) regulatory scheme that is the EU.


I don't know you well enough to establish when you joke or not, so I took your comment serious.

I wouldn't mind if we got the coining profits transfered over to us to the European Central Bank in Frankfurt. Then we can give a little back to you as our Marshall help. Heh.

But I'm afraid you're right, EU is too massive and there will be too many opposite opinions among the MEP's and within and the Council of ministers, where they all serve their own little agendas. The bureaucracy is immense in Bruxelles ...


____________
"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Profile Sirius B
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 9295
Credit: 1,363,177
RAC: 1,690
United Kingdom
Message 644941 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 16:58:05 UTC - in response to Message 644878.
Last modified: 20 Sep 2007, 16:58:15 UTC


But I'm afraid you're right, EU is too massive and there will be too many opposite opinions among the MEP's and within and the Council of ministers, where they all serve their own little agendas. The bureaucracy is immense in Bruxelles ...



Which takes us back to the feudal fiefdoms of the middle ages.

And for those who know their history, we know what that led to.
____________

Profile Scary Capitalist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 21 May 01
Posts: 7407
Credit: 70,761
RAC: 28
United States
Message 644976 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 17:42:55 UTC - in response to Message 644878.


Well, mostly I'm joking: it can only benefit the U.S. to dump that thing, it's the only currency that could even hope to compete with the U.S. dollar as the world currency. Heh.

But don't kid yourself, it's controlled far too much to be much help offsetting the massive (and punitive) regulatory scheme that is the EU.


I don't know you well enough to establish when you joke or not, so I took your comment serious.

I wouldn't mind if we got the coining profits transfered over to us to the European Central Bank in Frankfurt. Then we can give a little back to you as our Marshall help. Heh.

But I'm afraid you're right, EU is too massive and there will be too many opposite opinions among the MEP's and within and the Council of ministers, where they all serve their own little agendas. The bureaucracy is immense in Bruxelles ...



Congratulations. The signature countries have taken this further step toward a unified government. This is what you get. This unification of nations was done out of monetary concerns that seek to prop up their socialist governments. Too bad no intellectuals were able to assert enough influence over the process in order to establish a republic based on liberty.

Further complaints should now be addressed to the 'I hate tyranny department' of the E.U.

There your concerns will be addressed according to the complainent's political pull and party affiliations. Don't concern yourself with subjective matters of 'right and wrong'.......

All of these complaints will be handled in order of priority of your 'need', political affiliation, or just plain volume of your hostile whinginess...

Thus spaketh, ROBathustra!
____________
Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Profile Sirius B
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 9295
Credit: 1,363,177
RAC: 1,690
United Kingdom
Message 645000 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 18:22:31 UTC - in response to Message 644976.


Congratulations. The signature countries have taken this further step toward a unified government. This is what you get. This unification of nations was done out of monetary concerns that seek to prop up their socialist governments. Too bad no intellectuals were able to assert enough influence over the process in order to establish a republic based on liberty.

Further complaints should now be addressed to the 'I hate tyranny department' of the E.U.

There your concerns will be addressed according to the complainent's political pull and party affiliations. Don't concern yourself with subjective matters of 'right and wrong'.......

All of these complaints will be handled in order of priority of your 'need', political affiliation, or just plain volume of your hostile whinginess...

Thus spaketh, ROBathustra!


For once, you've got it right.
____________

Profile Scary Capitalist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 21 May 01
Posts: 7407
Credit: 70,761
RAC: 28
United States
Message 645020 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 18:59:56 UTC - in response to Message 645000.


Congratulations. The signature countries have taken this further step toward a unified government. This is what you get. This unification of nations was done out of monetary concerns that seek to prop up their socialist governments. Too bad no intellectuals were able to assert enough influence over the process in order to establish a republic based on liberty.

Further complaints should now be addressed to the 'I hate tyranny department' of the E.U.

There your concerns will be addressed according to the complainent's political pull and party affiliations. Don't concern yourself with subjective matters of 'right and wrong'.......

All of these complaints will be handled in order of priority of your 'need', political affiliation, or just plain volume of your hostile whinginess...

Thus spaketh, ROBathustra!


For once, you've got it right.


Or for once YOU'VE got it right. I don't make many errors, sir. They're rare and inconsequential.

____________
Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Profile Darth Dogbytes™
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 03
Posts: 7512
Credit: 2,021,148
RAC: 0
United States
Message 645091 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 21:12:00 UTC
Last modified: 20 Sep 2007, 21:16:56 UTC

A drug money launders dream note...



...the €200 notes aren't bad either.
____________
Account frozen...

Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 645866 - Posted: 21 Sep 2007, 17:47:35 UTC - in response to Message 645091.
Last modified: 21 Sep 2007, 17:50:00 UTC

A drug money launders dream note...



...the €200 notes aren't bad either.

Hell, speaking of money laundering: you can't even wash the Euro: Once I forgot a €10 bill in a pocket of my jacket when I washed it (40°C) - what fell out of the pocket was not recognizable as a money bill anymore!
Soak a Euro bill with water, let it dry, and the banks tell you you have a counterfeit -- then, there is no currency I ever used which has been so often successfully really falsified. They even falsify the Euro coins and get away with it - that was impossible with the DM. Of all currencies I got in contact with, thew DM was least able to be falsified, and the Euro is easiest to falsify.

No. They really should go back to DM, Franc, Schilling, etc... and let each country work with their own currency, on their own market.
____________
Account frozen...

Profile Sirius B
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 9295
Credit: 1,363,177
RAC: 1,690
United Kingdom
Message 646013 - Posted: 21 Sep 2007, 20:55:28 UTC - in response to Message 645866.

A drug money launders dream note...



...the €200 notes aren't bad either.

Hell, speaking of money laundering: you can't even wash the Euro: Once I forgot a €10 bill in a pocket of my jacket when I washed it (40°C) - what fell out of the pocket was not recognizable as a money bill anymore!
Soak a Euro bill with water, let it dry, and the banks tell you you have a counterfeit -- then, there is no currency I ever used which has been so often successfully really falsified. They even falsify the Euro coins and get away with it - that was impossible with the DM. Of all currencies I got in contact with, thew DM was least able to be falsified, and the Euro is easiest to falsify.

No. They really should go back to DM, Franc, Schilling, etc... and let each country work with their own currency, on their own market.


Well said - the only use for it is in a "Monopoly" game!
____________

MAC
Send message
Joined: 12 Feb 01
Posts: 203
Credit: 58,346
RAC: 0
Czech Republic
Message 646513 - Posted: 22 Sep 2007, 13:10:10 UTC

Well, I don't mind the € - generally it's a god thing to no longer have to change money. But it's true - when the € was implemented some companies tried to make a fortune out of it. As an example: I went at least once a week into a german restaurant for a "Jaegerschnitzel mit Pommes" with my colleagues. Used to pay 17,90 DM and after the € was implemented the price was 11,90 €. No need to say that many people were quite angry and stopped buying stuff, visiting restaurants, etc. That caused prices to go down drastically.

Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 646518 - Posted: 22 Sep 2007, 13:47:19 UTC - in response to Message 646513.

Well, I don't mind the € - generally it's a god thing to no longer have to change money. But it's true - when the € was implemented some companies tried to make a fortune out of it. As an example: I went at least once a week into a german restaurant for a "Jaegerschnitzel mit Pommes" with my colleagues. Used to pay 17,90 DM and after the € was implemented the price was 11,90 €. No need to say that many people were quite angry and stopped buying stuff, visiting restaurants, etc. That caused prices to go down drastically.


I don't know, because back before the Euro was implemented, the currency for the Deutch Mark was a little above 4 Dk. Kr. and the Euro has been quite stable on a currency on about 7.5 Dk. Kr. (I just checked, the past 52 weeks the currency has varied between 746,29 and 743,78). I don't remember the currencies back then, but in nice whole numbers 17.9 / 7 * 4 = 10,23, so maybe the 11.90 wasn't so unreasonable, depending on what the currencies were back then? Maybe they had put a bit on the price, I don't know, could well happen that some took advantage of the general ignorance about currency and economics in society.

What I have heard was that the prices in DM was substituted equally with €, so what before had the price of e.g. 10 DM now suddenly had the price of 10 €, where the wages were calculated with the right currencies and with this about 4/7 of what they were before in DM. So this created an inflation, which should have been prevented with a tight fiscal policy from the government. (Or monetarian policy, depending on your philosophy, I'm more of a Keynesian than a monetarian so I point to fiscal policy to control the inflation.)


____________
"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

MAC
Send message
Joined: 12 Feb 01
Posts: 203
Credit: 58,346
RAC: 0
Czech Republic
Message 647198 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 15:54:50 UTC
Last modified: 23 Sep 2007, 15:59:57 UTC

No, it is something like 1€ is about 1.95583 DM.
In my example price changed from 17,90 to 23,27 DM over night.
Sucks :p

As far as I get with the implementation of the € for some currencies "corridors" have been set to stop speculation.

"Die festgesetzte Schwankungsbreite der Dänischen Krone zum Euro, jeweils 2,25% von 7,46038, verleiht dieser Währung Stabilität".

There is a corridor of +/- 2,25%

Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 647286 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 18:22:32 UTC - in response to Message 647198.
Last modified: 23 Sep 2007, 18:23:32 UTC

No, it is something like 1€ is about 1.95583 DM.
In my example price changed from 17,90 to 23,27 DM over night.
Sucks :p

And that was one of the cheaper.
I had a household journal back then, where I was writing in all money I got and spent, and even kept the receipts.That helps if you have to be skimpy to get over the month. - And though some things became "cheaper" according to the numbers, it was an inflation of 80% to 90% over night, because the incomes were exchanged from DM 1.95583 to € 1.00, but most big shops exchanged their prizes from (for example) DM 0.99 to € 0.99.
____________
Account frozen...

Profile popandbob
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 19 Mar 05
Posts: 535
Credit: 1,896,421
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 647294 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 18:32:57 UTC

There is another thing that most people forget with money. History. With for example the British pound there is significant items/places/people on all of them specific to the UK. with the Euro you don't get anything like that because each country will want their own Euro with some place from their country so you end up with about 50 different designs all being produced with the same value which is kinda silly.
____________


Do you Good Search for Seti@Home? http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=888957
Or Good Shop? http://www.goodshop.com/?charityid=888957

Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 647309 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 18:55:10 UTC - in response to Message 647294.

There is another thing that most people forget with money. History. With for example the British pound there is significant items/places/people on all of them specific to the UK. with the Euro you don't get anything like that because each country will want their own Euro with some place from their country so you end up with about 50 different designs all being produced with the same value which is kinda silly.

I concur. I think they should've reached political AND economical equality first, before introducing the Euro as a topping.
____________
Account frozen...

1 · 2 · Next

Message boards : Politics : The €uro...

Copyright © 2014 University of California