Win Vista - BOINC Startup


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Profile BilBg
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Message 644289 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 16:22:49 UTC
Last modified: 19 Sep 2007, 16:32:46 UTC


1) Windows Vista blocks BOINC at Startup:








How can I avoid this?
(Don't have to manually "Run blocked program")




2) BOINC Screen Saver gives the Error (can't start):





This message is when I start the "boinc.scr" directly.


When I use Screen Properties ("Personalize" in Vista) to choose the BOINC Screen Saver the buttons "Settings" and "Preview" don't work.


The "Show graphics" button of BOINC Manager works (Shows graphics).


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Message 644385 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 18:00:24 UTC

They are working on BOINC v6.0 that is supposed to be Vista compatible. Until then, the only workaround for BOINC is to install as a service (so that it doesn't get blocked at startup). The downside to doing so means you won't get the screen saver functionality.

Warning, the following suggestion will reduce the security of Vista!

Or, alternatively, you can disable User Account Control (UAC). I have three of my five Vista machines with UAC disabled and BOINC isn't blocked and the screen saver works fine.
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Message 644434 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 19:28:42 UTC - in response to Message 644385.

They are working on BOINC v6.0 that is supposed to be Vista compatible. Until then, the only workaround for BOINC is to install as a service (so that it doesn't get blocked at startup). The downside to doing so means you won't get the screen saver functionality.

Warning, the following suggestion will reduce the security of Vista!

Or, alternatively, you can disable User Account Control (UAC). I have three of my five Vista machines with UAC disabled and BOINC isn't blocked and the screen saver works fine.

To avoid UAC problems, you also have to install in c:\\BOINC instead of c:\\Program Files\\BOINC.
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Message 644503 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 21:53:00 UTC - in response to Message 644434.

They are working on BOINC v6.0 that is supposed to be Vista compatible. Until then, the only workaround for BOINC is to install as a service (so that it doesn't get blocked at startup). The downside to doing so means you won't get the screen saver functionality.

Warning, the following suggestion will reduce the security of Vista!

Or, alternatively, you can disable User Account Control (UAC). I have three of my five Vista machines with UAC disabled and BOINC isn't blocked and the screen saver works fine.

To avoid UAC problems, you also have to install in c:\\BOINC instead of c:\\Program Files\\BOINC.


Oh yeah! I forgot about that one. The other two I had to do that with and it worked (both startup and screen saver).

Thanks John.
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Message 644550 - Posted: 19 Sep 2007, 23:20:59 UTC - in response to Message 644503.

They are working on BOINC v6.0 that is supposed to be Vista compatible. Until then, the only workaround for BOINC is to install as a service (so that it doesn't get blocked at startup). The downside to doing so means you won't get the screen saver functionality.

Warning, the following suggestion will reduce the security of Vista!

Or, alternatively, you can disable User Account Control (UAC). I have three of my five Vista machines with UAC disabled and BOINC isn't blocked and the screen saver works fine.

To avoid UAC problems, you also have to install in c:\\BOINC instead of c:\\Program Files\\BOINC.


Oh yeah! I forgot about that one. The other two I had to do that with and it worked (both startup and screen saver).

Thanks John.



"The other two..." - you mean "The other two computers?"

What exactly you do - just install NOT in "x:\\Program Files\\BOINC"
or you have to also disable UAC? Or something more?

My installation is in "H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\".
Vista is on "E:".

Can UAC be disabled on per program basis - some kind of "exclude list"
or "allowed programs"?

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Message 644700 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 4:06:25 UTC - in response to Message 644550.

"The other two..." - you mean "The other two computers?"


Yeah, the other two computers of mine on Vista that I have UAC still enabled for security reasons.

What exactly you do - just install NOT in "x:\\Program Files\\BOINC"
or you have to also disable UAC? Or something more?


By default, Vista protects the x:\\Program Files folder to prevent malicious software from installing itself and auto-launching itself at startup as a security measure.

BOINC, by default (as most programs) install to the x:\\Program Files folder as they should, but BOINC manipulates it's data in that folder too, which Vista's UAC doesn't like.

The workaround is to change the default install of BOINC to your root folder x:\\ instead of x:\\Program Files. If you've already installed BOINC, you can uninstall it, move the entire BOINC folder out of x:\\Program Files and into the root x:\\ (so that it will be x:\\BOINC), then reinstall BOINC to that folder to preserve your WUs, settings and preferences.

When installing to x:\\BOINC, UAC doesn't need to be disabled.

Can UAC be disabled on per program basis - some kind of "exclude list"
or "allowed programs"?


I believe there is a way to exclude programs, but they must be approved (or verified) by Microsoft as non-malicious software (or perhaps there's a specific registration process that Microsoft is encouraging). I believe BOINC v6.0 will fix most of this when it gets released.
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Message 644990 - Posted: 20 Sep 2007, 18:05:43 UTC - in response to Message 644700.

"The other two..." - you mean "The other two computers?"


Yeah, the other two computers of mine on Vista that I have UAC still enabled for security reasons.

What exactly you do - just install NOT in "x:\\Program Files\\BOINC"
or you have to also disable UAC? Or something more?


By default, Vista protects the x:\\Program Files folder to prevent malicious software from installing itself and auto-launching itself at startup as a security measure.

BOINC, by default (as most programs) install to the x:\\Program Files folder as they should, but BOINC manipulates it's data in that folder too, which Vista's UAC doesn't like.

The workaround is to change the default install of BOINC to your root folder x:\\ instead of x:\\Program Files. If you've already installed BOINC, you can uninstall it, move the entire BOINC folder out of x:\\Program Files and into the root x:\\ (so that it will be x:\\BOINC), then reinstall BOINC to that folder to preserve your WUs, settings and preferences.

When installing to x:\\BOINC, UAC doesn't need to be disabled.

Can UAC be disabled on per program basis - some kind of "exclude list"
or "allowed programs"?


I believe there is a way to exclude programs, but they must be approved (or verified) by Microsoft as non-malicious software (or perhaps there's a specific registration process that Microsoft is encouraging). I believe BOINC v6.0 will fix most of this when it gets released.

Actually, there isn't a way to disable UAC per process.
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Message 647123 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 14:25:38 UTC - in response to Message 644990.

"The other two..." - you mean "The other two computers?"


Yeah, the other two computers of mine on Vista that I have UAC still enabled for security reasons.

What exactly you do - just install NOT in "x:\\Program Files\\BOINC"
or you have to also disable UAC? Or something more?


By default, Vista protects the x:\\Program Files folder to prevent malicious software from installing itself and auto-launching itself at startup as a security measure.

BOINC, by default (as most programs) install to the x:\\Program Files folder as they should, but BOINC manipulates it's data in that folder too, which Vista's UAC doesn't like.

The workaround is to change the default install of BOINC to your root folder x:\\ instead of x:\\Program Files. If you've already installed BOINC, you can uninstall it, move the entire BOINC folder out of x:\\Program Files and into the root x:\\ (so that it will be x:\\BOINC), then reinstall BOINC to that folder to preserve your WUs, settings and preferences.

When installing to x:\\BOINC, UAC doesn't need to be disabled.

Can UAC be disabled on per program basis - some kind of "exclude list"
or "allowed programs"?


I believe there is a way to exclude programs, but they must be approved (or verified) by Microsoft as non-malicious software (or perhaps there's a specific registration process that Microsoft is encouraging). I believe BOINC v6.0 will fix most of this when it gets released.

Actually, there isn't a way to disable UAC per process.





I have to make clear that BOINC/S@H works OK on my computer's Vista OS.
The only small problem is Startup - I have to manually "Run blocked program".

(The Screen Saver isn't real problem - if I wanna peek I can use "Show graphics" button of BOINC Manager)


You say that the BOINC must be installed at root directory of the
partition where Vista is installed ("E:" in my case).


My installation of BOINC is on different partition ("H:")
which has no OS on it - only installed programs.
BOINC is not directly in root directory but in "H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\".

(I have made folders "H:\\Programs.Vis", "H:\\Programs.V64", "H:\\Programs.XP"
for installations of programs under different OSes).


Does it make any difference if BOINC is in "E:\\BOINC" or in "H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\"?


Can you estimate the danger of disabling the UAC if I have
antivirus and antispyware software installed (0...10)?
(0 = no danger ... 10 = big danger)


(By the way: in Win XP I didn't reinstall BOINC - I just made shortcut to
"H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\boincmgr.exe"
and BOINC seams to work fine.

This was After I had Startup problem in Vista.)


P.S.
Actually, there isn't a way to disable UAC per process.


But Microsoft must have somewhere info about trusted Vendors/programs?


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Message 647185 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 15:42:17 UTC - in response to Message 647123.

I have to make clear that BOINC/S@H works OK on my computer's Vista OS.
The only small problem is Startup - I have to manually "Run blocked program".


The reason why you have to manually "run blocked program" is to prevent malware writers the ability to make sure their software runs automatically at startup ensuring the system remains "theirs".

Microsoft has changed this with Vista and UAC. With UAC enabled, any program not considered "safe" by Microsoft will be blocked by default (just in case you didn't want it installed at startup). I've seen no way to allow this as a more permanent solution.

You say that the BOINC must be installed at root directory of the
partition where Vista is installed ("E:" in my case).


My installation of BOINC is on different partition ("H:")
which has no OS on it - only installed programs.
BOINC is not directly in root directory but in "H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\".

(I have made folders "H:\\Programs.Vis", "H:\\Programs.V64", "H:\\Programs.XP"
for installations of programs under different OSes).

Does it make any difference if BOINC is in "E:\\BOINC" or in "H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\"?


The reason why BOINC can't be installed in the general \\Program Files folder (or any other program files location) is that UAC protects the entire folder tree so that malicious software writers can't wreak havok on the system (as most current malware does).


Can you estimate the danger of disabling the UAC if I have
antivirus and antispyware software installed (0...10)?
(0 = no danger ... 10 = big danger)


That primarily depends on how well you practice safe computing. Even with the best software installed, it will do little against a user that opens any email attachment, visits questionable sites or runs/downloads questionable software to their system.

Assuming you are very well versed in safe computing, disabling UAC will have little impact on the security of your system. If you don't practice any safe computing tactics, then I'd say your danger will be quite high (9-10 on your scale).


(By the way: in Win XP I didn't reinstall BOINC - I just made shortcut to
"H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\boincmgr.exe"
and BOINC seams to work fine.

This was After I had Startup problem in Vista.)


That's because XP didn't have security in mind when it was designed. Vista was/is designed from the ground up to be a very secure OS. XP doesn't protect the \\Program Files folder at all, allowing any piece of software to take over your system by default. Since Vista blocks this, it makes it much more difficult for malicious software writers to take over the system at the detriment of legit software having to register as a known safe program with Microsoft to be able to launch automatically.

Having MS do this check for you can be a double-edged sword. Do you trust MS enough to make that decision for you? Of course, some semblance of control is better than none (like previous versions of Windows).
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Message 647206 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 16:10:57 UTC - in response to Message 647123.

"The other two..." - you mean "The other two computers?"


Yeah, the other two computers of mine on Vista that I have UAC still enabled for security reasons.

What exactly you do - just install NOT in "x:\\Program Files\\BOINC"
or you have to also disable UAC? Or something more?


By default, Vista protects the x:\\Program Files folder to prevent malicious software from installing itself and auto-launching itself at startup as a security measure.

BOINC, by default (as most programs) install to the x:\\Program Files folder as they should, but BOINC manipulates it's data in that folder too, which Vista's UAC doesn't like.

The workaround is to change the default install of BOINC to your root folder x:\\ instead of x:\\Program Files. If you've already installed BOINC, you can uninstall it, move the entire BOINC folder out of x:\\Program Files and into the root x:\\ (so that it will be x:\\BOINC), then reinstall BOINC to that folder to preserve your WUs, settings and preferences.

When installing to x:\\BOINC, UAC doesn't need to be disabled.

Can UAC be disabled on per program basis - some kind of "exclude list"
or "allowed programs"?


I believe there is a way to exclude programs, but they must be approved (or verified) by Microsoft as non-malicious software (or perhaps there's a specific registration process that Microsoft is encouraging). I believe BOINC v6.0 will fix most of this when it gets released.

Actually, there isn't a way to disable UAC per process.





I have to make clear that BOINC/S@H works OK on my computer's Vista OS.
The only small problem is Startup - I have to manually "Run blocked program".
This is fixed by installing as a service.

(The Screen Saver isn't real problem - if I wanna peek I can use "Show graphics" button of BOINC Manager)


You say that the BOINC must be installed at root directory of the
partition where Vista is installed ("E:" in my case).


My installation of BOINC is on different partition ("H:")
which has no OS on it - only installed programs.
BOINC is not directly in root directory but in "H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\".
The key is that it is not in the Program Files directory which the UAC protects from writing.

(I have made folders "H:\\Programs.Vis", "H:\\Programs.V64", "H:\\Programs.XP"
for installations of programs under different OSes).


Does it make any difference if BOINC is in "E:\\BOINC" or in "H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\"?
No. It just cannot be in a UAC protected directory.


Can you estimate the danger of disabling the UAC if I have
antivirus and antispyware software installed (0...10)?
(0 = no danger ... 10 = big danger)
You are no worse and no better off than with XP.


(By the way: in Win XP I didn't reinstall BOINC - I just made shortcut to
"H:\\Programs.Vis\\Science\\BOINC\\boincmgr.exe"
and BOINC seams to work fine.

This was After I had Startup problem in Vista.)


P.S.
Actually, there isn't a way to disable UAC per process.


But Microsoft must have somewhere info about trusted Vendors/programs?



AIt depends on the signing of the executables. You have to pay money to bedcome trusted, and you have to meet many other requirements. The BOINC projects run on a shoe string.
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Message 647221 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 16:27:49 UTC - in response to Message 647206.

AIt depends on the signing of the executables. You have to pay money to bedcome trusted, and you have to meet many other requirements. The BOINC projects run on a shoe string.


I'm sure MS would be willing to set up an "cheaper" or alternate solution for cases such as this if you talk to the right people. I'm sure MS has heard of BOINC, SETI@Home and Folding@Home amongst many others. There has to be a way for them to become "trusted" without the large prices being involved.
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Message 671034 - Posted: 2 Nov 2007, 5:41:23 UTC


I think that there is also "ending" problem in Vista -
I have to manually Exit the BOINC Manager before restarting the OS.

If I don't - the currently running task is interrupted with
"Compute error".

Does anybody noticed the same?

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Message 671215 - Posted: 2 Nov 2007, 18:29:25 UTC - in response to Message 671034.

Does anybody noticed the same?


No, I don't have that issue on any of the six Vista machines I manage.
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Message 671325 - Posted: 3 Nov 2007, 1:24:26 UTC - in response to Message 671034.


I think that there is also "ending" problem in Vista -
I have to manually Exit the BOINC Manager before restarting the OS.

If I don't - the currently running task is interrupted with
"Compute error".

Does anybody noticed the same?


There have been sporadic reports of this. I don't have any idea why it is happening to some machines.
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Questions and Answers : Wish list : Win Vista - BOINC Startup

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