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Message 624595 - Posted: 23 Aug 2007, 2:51:37 UTC - in response to Message 624064.

Of course I already tried all solutions suggested by Seti@Home

Does it still happen with the screen saver off?


Yes. I finally was able to confirm this, on both my trusty Win98SE machine, and the new XP machine I recently set up. Something is wrong with 5.27.

Can you try installing an optomized application without graphics? At the moment, I can't remember where these are.


I can try. Is that something I would download from this site? How does it run, in comparison to the regular application?

Also, I've noticed earlier posts in this thread (from uapel and Grunneger), virtually the same problem reported. With that in mind, I'm trying to understand if (or how) this might be somehow unique to me, especially since it affected my older Win98SE machine, and new XP system, which have nothing in common with one another.

This is an interesting puzzel.


Yes, it is an interesting puzzle.

No, the optimized applications are not downloaded from this site, they come from third party sites. A good optimized application will run faster than the stock application. This is because the optimized applications are for specific CPUs rather than being for all windows intel machines.


I see. So where would I go now?

http://lunatics.at/index.php


No go. Anything that's current that I download and install locks up the machine a couple minutes after the science application starts. I rolled back my machine (GoBack) to the date when it was working fine (under the 5.15(?) science application version, I think), and no troubles (the computer was disconnected from the internet and thought it was a couple weeks ago, running the previous version). No lockups. I then immediately install the latest version of Boinc (after uninstalling the current one), and everything is fine, until it finishes the FFT at the begining of a workunit, then the PC locks up hard. The software seems okay - maybe something to do with the composition of the new work units. I don't know. Intel Celeron 766MHz Win98SE.

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Message 626070 - Posted: 25 Aug 2007, 0:43:39 UTC - in response to Message 624595.

Of course I already tried all solutions suggested by Seti@Home

Does it still happen with the screen saver off?


Yes. I finally was able to confirm this, on both my trusty Win98SE machine, and the new XP machine I recently set up. Something is wrong with 5.27.

Can you try installing an optomized application without graphics? At the moment, I can't remember where these are.


I can try. Is that something I would download from this site? How does it run, in comparison to the regular application?

Also, I've noticed earlier posts in this thread (from uapel and Grunneger), virtually the same problem reported. With that in mind, I'm trying to understand if (or how) this might be somehow unique to me, especially since it affected my older Win98SE machine, and new XP system, which have nothing in common with one another.

This is an interesting puzzel.


Yes, it is an interesting puzzle.

No, the optimized applications are not downloaded from this site, they come from third party sites. A good optimized application will run faster than the stock application. This is because the optimized applications are for specific CPUs rather than being for all windows intel machines.


I see. So where would I go now?

http://lunatics.at/index.php


No go. Anything that's current that I download and install locks up the machine a couple minutes after the science application starts. I rolled back my machine (GoBack) to the date when it was working fine (under the 5.15(?) science application version, I think), and no troubles (the computer was disconnected from the internet and thought it was a couple weeks ago, running the previous version). No lockups. I then immediately install the latest version of Boinc (after uninstalling the current one), and everything is fine, until it finishes the FFT at the begining of a workunit, then the PC locks up hard. The software seems okay - maybe something to do with the composition of the new work units. I don't know. Intel Celeron 766MHz Win98SE.


Bump.
Any ideas?

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Message 628541 - Posted: 29 Aug 2007, 0:11:28 UTC - in response to Message 626070.

Of course I already tried all solutions suggested by Seti@Home

Does it still happen with the screen saver off?


Yes. I finally was able to confirm this, on both my trusty Win98SE machine, and the new XP machine I recently set up. Something is wrong with 5.27.

Can you try installing an optomized application without graphics? At the moment, I can't remember where these are.


I can try. Is that something I would download from this site? How does it run, in comparison to the regular application?

Also, I've noticed earlier posts in this thread (from uapel and Grunneger), virtually the same problem reported. With that in mind, I'm trying to understand if (or how) this might be somehow unique to me, especially since it affected my older Win98SE machine, and new XP system, which have nothing in common with one another.

This is an interesting puzzel.


Yes, it is an interesting puzzle.

No, the optimized applications are not downloaded from this site, they come from third party sites. A good optimized application will run faster than the stock application. This is because the optimized applications are for specific CPUs rather than being for all windows intel machines.


I see. So where would I go now?

http://lunatics.at/index.php


No go. Anything that's current that I download and install locks up the machine a couple minutes after the science application starts. I rolled back my machine (GoBack) to the date when it was working fine (under the 5.15(?) science application version, I think), and no troubles (the computer was disconnected from the internet and thought it was a couple weeks ago, running the previous version). No lockups. I then immediately install the latest version of Boinc (after uninstalling the current one), and everything is fine, until it finishes the FFT at the begining of a workunit, then the PC locks up hard. The software seems okay - maybe something to do with the composition of the new work units. I don't know. Intel Celeron 766MHz Win98SE.


Bump.
Any ideas?


BUMP.

Any resolution with the PCs that are locking up after the switch to 5.27?
I've pretty much exhausted resolution here, and haven't heard a solution via PM with other folks here with the same problem.

Jeff

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Message 628746 - Posted: 29 Aug 2007, 8:30:16 UTC - in response to Message 628541.

...other folks here with the same problem.

If they could post in this thread the issues they are having it may help solve the problem; as it is you're the only one i'm aware of having this issue.

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Message 628894 - Posted: 29 Aug 2007, 15:19:47 UTC

I also have been running seti@home for many years, and in the last few weeks I've started having probs with the program myself. Running XP Pro edition here with 3.5ghz intel chip with 1g ram. Suddenly I seem to get work units that just won't finish... I've had to abort a few of them and fetch new work units. They don't seem to crash my system, but after 48 hrs of working on them they are like .001% finished? The last few work units I've recieved have run fine though so maybe they've gotten this problem figured out.

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Message 628904 - Posted: 29 Aug 2007, 15:50:59 UTC - in response to Message 628894.

Suddenly I seem to get work units that just won't finish... I've had to abort a few of them and fetch new work units. They don't seem to crash my system, but after 48 hrs of working on them they are like .001% finished? The last few work units I've recieved have run fine though so maybe they've gotten this problem figured out.


Yes, that problem was discovered and fixed about a week ago.
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Message 629217 - Posted: 30 Aug 2007, 0:01:37 UTC - in response to Message 628746.

...other folks here with the same problem.

If they could post in this thread the issues they are having it may help solve the problem; as it is you're the only one i'm aware of having this issue.


See Post #3 (uapel), and #6 (grunneger), in this thread.
Machines lock up shortly after new science app (5.27) starts up.
No additional indications.

I myself have gone through the effort of a complete format and reinstall of WIn98SE, reinstall BOINC, and same behavior present. If I put the hard drive back in with the image containing the pre-5.27 version of the science app, all runs well, as it has fine for years. But as soon as it updates to 5.27, computer locks up hard. No disk activity, no response. Must cycle power.

That's about all the detective work I'm able to do here. Something has changed with 5.27 to cause this.

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Message 629788 - Posted: 30 Aug 2007, 20:54:16 UTC - in response to Message 620048.

Hi Jeff,

Could you please unhide your computers so we can see the details of your machine(s)?

Thanks,

Eric

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Message 629822 - Posted: 30 Aug 2007, 22:20:54 UTC - in response to Message 629788.

Hi Jeff,

Could you please unhide your computers so we can see the details of your machine(s)?

Thanks,

Eric


Done.

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Message 632189 - Posted: 2 Sep 2007, 18:02:20 UTC - in response to Message 629822.

Hi Jeff,

Could you please unhide your computers so we can see the details of your machine(s)?

Thanks,

Eric


Done.


BUMP.

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Message 634693 - Posted: 6 Sep 2007, 12:55:45 UTC - in response to Message 632189.
Last modified: 6 Sep 2007, 13:07:53 UTC


BUMP.


Hi there, just some thoughts if I may. Assuming you have eliminated the possibility of overheating, does the machine still lock up if you do not use the graphics button or screensaver at all? If it runs ok like that then I would be suspecting something about the video drivers and the new seti version's OpenGL capability. I run ATI Radeons in my 2 machines and have disabled screensavers and don't use the graphics, since last year, as I used to get occasional computation errors and occasional lockup. Using the drivers without catalyst control panel seemed to correct that for me, but I went to optimised applications without graphics after that anyway (for the extra ~2% crunching).

So I guess some good questions might be, What video card are you running? Are the drivers up to date?....do any other OpenGL graphics applications exhibit strange behaviour sometimes ? (Like sometimes I used to get textures go strange... drivers seem better on my card lately but it might point to something)

(Note that my video card works fine for everything else I do... and I don't really want the graphics anyway)
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Message 634697 - Posted: 6 Sep 2007, 13:04:09 UTC - in response to Message 634693.
Last modified: 6 Sep 2007, 13:11:44 UTC

Oh I see one other small possibility from looking at your machine, [This won't be an issue if it's been working fine with the same hardware configuration for ages] it lists as 318MB RAM... I guess that might be about 512MB minus some for shared motherboard video ? That's probably okay but ... I had a PIII running win98se, and as soon as the total of video ram + system ram went above 512mB then win98SE would go ballistic [...You might want to try pulling 1 stick out and see if that fixes it... you also tested the RAM 'recently' with memtest86 right?] ended up putting XP Pro on that machine just fine (until it eventually died from aged capacitors) just another thought.
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Message 634713 - Posted: 6 Sep 2007, 13:36:30 UTC - in response to Message 634697.

it lists as 318MB RAM... I guess that might be about 512MB minus some for shared motherboard video ?


I'm guessing 384MB with 64MB used for video would give roughly 320MB (Windows reserves some RAM that it doesn't report, so I could easily see it reporting 318MB).

It's hard to guess, but it's probably not the video card if they've already tried disabling the screen saver (as per earlier in the post) and the fact that the old SETI app (v5.18) worked fine.

If I have some time this weekend, maybe I'll pull out one of my Win98 machines and see if I experience the same problem.
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Message 634722 - Posted: 6 Sep 2007, 13:44:40 UTC - in response to Message 634713.
Last modified: 6 Sep 2007, 13:54:04 UTC


I'm guessing 384MB with 64MB used for video would give roughly 320MB (Windows reserves some RAM that it doesn't report, so I could easily see it reporting 318MB).

It's hard to guess, but it's probably not the video card if they've already tried disabling the screen saver (as per earlier in the post) and the fact that the old SETI app (v5.18) worked fine.

If I have some time this weekend, maybe I'll pull out one of my Win98 machines and see if I experience the same problem.


Sounds about right, Wish I still had that win98se pIII running to give the new stock app a try on it, it is possible they altered something in the new stocker. however This problem just sounds too familiar, In my case with the older stock app it turned out to be RAM gone bad (finally found with memtest86) . Funny thing is it only seemed to show up with Seti [after a version change] too.. otherwise the machine seemed just fine.
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Message 638434 - Posted: 10 Sep 2007, 22:51:08 UTC - in response to Message 634697.
Last modified: 10 Sep 2007, 22:55:39 UTC

jason,

Thanks for giving me some things to check. I really appreciate it and would like to get this thing "fixed" :-)

Now for some answers:

Hi there, just some thoughts if I may. Assuming you have eliminated the possibility of overheating, does the machine still lock up if you do not use the graphics button or screensaver at all?


Yes. Graphics on or graphics off. No difference. With BIONC open, I clicked the "Show Graphics" in a window button just to see at what point the machine is freezing up. Its right after completing the "performing fast fourier ..." something process, if memory serves. With graphics off (or running one of those alternative "optimized" science science apps that don't do graphics), the PC appears to lock up at about tne same elapsed time as when I watched it with the graphics window showing above.[/quote]

If it runs ok like that then I would be suspecting something about the video drivers and the new seti version's OpenGL capability. I run ATI Radeons in my 2 machines and have disabled screensavers and don't use the graphics, since last year, as I used to get occasional computation errors and occasional lockup. Using the drivers without catalyst control panel seemed to correct that for me, but I went to optimised applications without graphics after that anyway (for the extra ~2% crunching).


Again- happens with no graphics running.

So I guess some good questions might be, What video card are you running?


An older Voodoo 3500 (3dfx).

Are the drivers up to date?....do any other OpenGL graphics applications exhibit strange behaviour sometimes ?


Yes. Never.

Oh I see one other small possibility from looking at your machine, [This won't be an issue if it's been working fine with the same hardware configuration for ages]


Exactly- no other problems ever, until the new science app downloaded. Do not believe video is an issue.

it lists as 318MB RAM... I guess that might be about 512MB minus some for shared motherboard video ?


No shared video- AGP video card with its own 16MB onboard.

That's probably okay but ... I had a PIII running win98se, and as soon as the total of video ram + system ram went above 512mB then win98SE would go ballistic [...You might want to try pulling 1 stick out and see if that fixes it... you also tested the RAM 'recently' with memtest86 right?] ended up putting XP Pro on that machine just fine (until it eventually died from aged capacitors) just another thought.



Tried it with each memory stick (128-128-64) removed (one at a time). No difference. Memory all tests good.

I really believe there is something wrong with the new science app. Now what?

Jeff

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Message 638810 - Posted: 11 Sep 2007, 13:25:22 UTC - in response to Message 638434.

Tried it with each memory stick (128-128-64) removed (one at a time). No difference. Memory all tests good.


Well that explains the odd amount of memory. 128+128+64=320MB (318MB reported by Windows).

I really believe there is something wrong with the new science app. Now what?

Jeff


I didn't pull out my Win98 machine due to the server issues (and a busy weekend), but now that all that is hopefully resolved, I will see about pulling it out today after work.

I wonder if this problem is related to the new inclusion of MMX/SSEx into the science app. Your Celeron 766 should be a Coppermine core that supports SSE, so theoretically it shouldn't be an issue. The machine I'll be pulling out is a Pentium II 333MHz that only supports MMX, so we'll see if I have a problem too.
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Message 639050 - Posted: 11 Sep 2007, 22:58:48 UTC - in response to Message 638810.

I wonder if this problem is related to the new inclusion of MMX/SSEx into the science app. Your Celeron 766 should be a Coppermine core that supports SSE, so theoretically it shouldn't be an issue.


I concur with that. The only thing that changed for me was when the science app upgraded from 5.15 to 5.27. I'm betting its an obscure processor-dependent bug or oversight in the code. Perhaps related to the multi-beam processing.

Thanks again for any assistance you can come up with.

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Message 639058 - Posted: 11 Sep 2007, 23:07:06 UTC

OK, I fired up my Win98SE PC and I've had no freezes. You did say that it froze early on during the "Fast Fourier Transform" stage, right? Or was it after a few minutes/hours?

Some standard questions:

Do you have all the Win98SE updates from WindowsUpdate.com installed? Have you scanned for adware/spyware recently? Have you tested your system RAM with Memtest86+?


My PC's config:

Pentium II 333MHz (MMX)
512MB PC100 ECC SDRAM
7GB UDMA/33 HDD
Voodoo3 3000 16MB AGP 2x
10/100 3Com nic (3C905B)


Not too much different from yours (other than the CPU).
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Message 639291 - Posted: 12 Sep 2007, 6:38:04 UTC - in response to Message 639058.
Last modified: 12 Sep 2007, 6:49:50 UTC

Following all your tests and trials please have in mind I do have the same behaviour on different xp machines. They all run xp sp2 with all available patches.

Here is the hw of three of them:
1) intel xeon 2.0 ghz with rage xl pci
2) intel pentium 1.6 ghz with ati mobility radeon 9600 series
3) intel pentium 3.4 ghz with radeon x600

It seems to me that the problem is in any way related to the graphics as it is posssible to remotely start a task when the machines are freezed but you can not get control of the task on the freezed machine and the screen seems to be locked.

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Message 639399 - Posted: 12 Sep 2007, 11:58:51 UTC - in response to Message 639058.
Last modified: 12 Sep 2007, 12:01:25 UTC

Do you have all the Win98SE updates from WindowsUpdate.com installed? Have you scanned for adware/spyware recently? Have you tested your system RAM with Memtest86+?


Fresh WIN98SE install with all patches. No Adware. Memory tested, again.

The first thing that starts at the begining of a work unit is that fourier transform, which takes just a few minutes, during which the machine is responsive. The as it appears to go to the next step (can't remember what its called from the previous 5.15 version when it was working) the machine locks up.
Same sequence of events with NO graphics. Always locks up right near the begining of these new work units, after just a couple minutes.

What's interesting is that Uapel (above) is having what appears to be a similar issue under XP, on considerably newer hardware. Hmmmm.

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