BIOS Hell

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Profile KWSN - Chicken of Angnor
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Message 611475 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 4:06:04 UTC
Last modified: 30 Jul 2007, 4:10:14 UTC

Hi Neo,

I once had a similar problem, but was lucky enough to have a similar board with an identical Flash chip (this is important) in a socket (like you).

Quick explanation - after booting, your computer does not actually need a BIOS chip to run.

Warning: the following is NOT for the faint of heart, though at this point your reservations may be nearing zero ;o)

AFTER successfully booting up the other system, remove the original BIOS chip and insert the "dead" (flashus interruptus) one in the socket. While it's running. Yeah, I mean it :o) Make sure you use a non-conductive tool so you can't short anything. Stiff plastic tweezers work nicely.

Flash your BIOS with the tool for the motherboard it's in, not for the one it came from! Replace BIOS chips again either while running (cause you could the first time) or after powering down your system. Do NOT boot up with the wrong BIOS chip inserted. You have been warned :o)

Well, if everything went okay, you'll have working BIOS chips in both systems. By the way, removing the chip from the working MoBo should not harm anything provided you do it AFTER bootup is finished.

The system I restored this way is still running as a Linux server.

Regards,
Simon.
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Message 611496 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 5:51:36 UTC - in response to Message 611475.  

Of course! BIOS gets shadowed! Brilliant, Simon.
*tips hat*
You deserve that Linux server's functionality.

I'd probably keep it as a last resort, but if push comes to shove I'll try your "flashus interrputus" method. All I'd need at that point is a sucker - uhm, I mean good friend... to lend me their machine.

I'm going to try one last time from disk before packing it in for the night, but by Jove! that's brilliant, Simon.
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Message 611607 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 15:31:56 UTC

Note to self: Never use Microsoft's Virtual PC - use Connectix's. USB floppy support was so much better in version 6... *sigh*

The good news is that I've finally gotten the P4 back up and running. Once again, many thanks to all for their help. The bad news is that the damn box still automagically powers-off without warning, even when the watchdog timer is disabled. I guess I should be grateful that I didn't have to resort to "flashus interruptus"...

So that leaves one last question, and since I'm not as familiar with x86 hardware as I would like to be, I pose the question to those whose brains are the size of a planet: Should I revert to the temperature-insensitive BIOS, or continue using the narcoleptic BIOS?
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Message 611615 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 15:56:08 UTC

Hm,

not knowing what you mean by "temperature-insensitive" BIOS, I don't really know what to tell you - however, maybe there's a switch like "use CPU thermal management" or the like, which should throttle your P4 if it gets too hot.

Personally, I'd prefer a BIOS with temperature issues because that's something you can remedy with a better cooling solution; random shut-downs are a bother especially if you don't have quick access to that box.

HTH,
Simon.
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Message 611622 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 16:00:36 UTC

Jolly good you have gotten past the corrupted bios problem! Just one other thought....is it possible you are dealing with a power supply that is going thermal rather than a bios issue? Or are you certain it's the bios shutting things down? Originally you thought it was the watchdog timer, now you are asking about bios thermal issues. I might try subbing the power supply with a different one just to rule that out.
Best of luck jousting with your problem.
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Message 611658 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 17:01:15 UTC - in response to Message 611622.  

By "| temperature-insensitive" I mean that BIOS reports the "Current System Temp." as zero degrees Celsius in New York City during summer. The updated BIOS seems to report the system's temperature accurately (I don't have a CPU-friendly thermometer on me, but 43C makes a lot more sense than 0C).

I have a nasty feeling that msattler might be right: I think my immediate problem may very well be an overheating power supply. I've set (and unset) spread spectrum, thermal throttling, thermal delay, and the watchdog timer enough times that I've covered every possible BIOS-induced narcoleptic attack with no result. In essence, Ockham seems to trump Murphy POST-BIOS.

Unfortunately the power supply is not replaceable (it's firmly affixed to the case, and I'm rather fond of that little black box) but I'll try to put it in a place that has better ventilation. Hopefully that'll do the trick.
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Message 611733 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 19:50:49 UTC - in response to Message 611658.  

...Unfortunately the power supply is not replaceable (it's firmly affixed to the case, and I'm rather fond of that little black box) but I'll try to put it in a place that has better ventilation. Hopefully that'll do the trick.

What strange PSU is that?

Remove the motherboard, drill out the PSU rivets, and install new?

For the price of a good PSU, it's just not worth losing your work to a power glitch!

Hell, one of the reasons I gave up Microsoft for my own use was because I got tired of having to pussy-foot around the system to avoid trashing my work... And also of the many multiple reboot-reboot-reboot silliness for any minor change...


Happy crunchin',
Martin

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Message 612165 - Posted: 30 Jul 2007, 23:57:00 UTC - in response to Message 611658.  
Last modified: 30 Jul 2007, 23:57:12 UTC

Unfortunately the power supply is not replaceable (it's firmly affixed to the case, and I'm rather fond of that little black box) but I'll try to put it in a place that has better ventilation. Hopefully that'll do the trick.


That little black box you like so much is probably the least reliable part in your computer! Do whatever it takes to replace it with a proper power supply.



Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....
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Message 612631 - Posted: 31 Jul 2007, 20:40:20 UTC
Last modified: 31 Jul 2007, 20:44:49 UTC

Yes, the PSU was removable. It turns out that the screws holing it in place were on the sides of the PSU and not on the back (where I had seen fasteners). Getting all the wires unplugged took about 90 minutes (I forgot how cramped it is inside there).

Anyway, I did the usual routine: check for dust bunnies (none), the smell of smoke (none), made sure that it was set to 110VAC (it was)... all in all the PSU was fine. So without a reason not to, I reattached it, hooked up the mobo and floppy with power, and turned it on.

All went well for about 15 seconds until I saw the heatsink pop out of position. A split-second later, the processor pooted a puff of gray smoke the likes of which I had never seen before and the stench of which I hope never to smell again.

The funeral will be held at the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Is., with shiva observances taking place at Hopscotch (formerly known as Alt.café) by Tompkins Sq. Pk. in the Lower East Side. ;-(
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Message 612645 - Posted: 31 Jul 2007, 20:56:14 UTC - in response to Message 612631.  



All went well for about 15 seconds until I saw the heatsink pop out of position. A split-second later, the processor pooted a puff of gray smoke the likes of which I had never seen before and the stench of which I hope never to smell again.

The funeral will be held at the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Is., with shiva observances taking place at Hopscotch (formerly known as Alt.café) by Tompkins Sq. Pk. in the Lower East Side. ;-(


May it rest in pieces, I mean peace :-D



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Message 612672 - Posted: 31 Jul 2007, 21:42:48 UTC - in response to Message 612631.  

All went well for about 15 seconds until I saw the heatsink pop out of position. A split-second later, the processor pooted a puff of gray smoke the likes of which I had never seen before and the stench of which I hope never to smell again.

Good excuse to get a faster (and cheaper) CPU to replace it!

Also good for checking the fastenings for the heatsink...

Happy crunchin',
Martin

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Message 612729 - Posted: 1 Aug 2007, 0:01:16 UTC

No good deed goes unpunished.
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Message 612868 - Posted: 1 Aug 2007, 7:09:26 UTC - in response to Message 612631.  

Yes, the PSU was removable. It turns out that the screws holing it in place were on the sides of the PSU and not on the back (where I had seen fasteners). Getting all the wires unplugged took about 90 minutes (I forgot how cramped it is inside there).

Anyway, I did the usual routine: check for dust bunnies (none), the smell of smoke (none), made sure that it was set to 110VAC (it was)... all in all the PSU was fine. So without a reason not to, I reattached it, hooked up the mobo and floppy with power, and turned it on.

All went well for about 15 seconds until I saw the heatsink pop out of position. A split-second later, the processor pooted a puff of gray smoke the likes of which I had never seen before and the stench of which I hope never to smell again.

The funeral will be held at the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Is., with shiva observances taking place at Hopscotch (formerly known as Alt.café) by Tompkins Sq. Pk. in the Lower East Side. ;-(


Ouch! The kitties send their condolences. A sad ending to a long saga. Are you gonna replace the cpu or build a faster rig?

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Message 613001 - Posted: 1 Aug 2007, 15:09:22 UTC - in response to Message 612729.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2007, 15:15:33 UTC

No good deed goes unpunished.


Do they ever, Misfit, do they ever? ;-P

Sorry for your loss, NA. Have you set up a site where respects can be paid?



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Message 613224 - Posted: 1 Aug 2007, 23:53:29 UTC

(Now that the headache's gone, I'm able to type properly...)

There's no "shrine" page planned as it might not yet be needed. I don't remember what exactly what was said (I was distracted from the conversation between toasts to St. SCSI of a'Stiction and an philosophical debate on byte-order) but a friend of mine insisted that I hold onto the rig until he could check it out. He's the most x86-savvy guy I know, so either he'll make use of whatever parts remain, or I'll have to pay the next bar tab (I hope he meant exclusive-or and not inclusive-or which is a very meta statement in and of itself).

In any event, I have an x86-based PC/104 SBC on its way and a Power Mac 9600 that's finally got a large enough hard disk, so the crunching will continue.

Thanks again to all, and see you guys in a few days !-)
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Message 613274 - Posted: 2 Aug 2007, 1:03:06 UTC - in response to Message 613224.  

(Now that the headache's gone, I'm able to type properly...)

There's no "shrine" page planned as it might not yet be needed. I don't remember what exactly what was said (I was distracted from the conversation between toasts to St. SCSI of a'Stiction and an philosophical debate on byte-order) but a friend of mine insisted that I hold onto the rig until he could check it out. He's the most x86-savvy guy I know, so either he'll make use of whatever parts remain, or I'll have to pay the next bar tab (I hope he meant exclusive-or and not inclusive-or which is a very meta statement in and of itself).

In any event, I have an x86-based PC/104 SBC on its way and a Power Mac 9600 that's finally got a large enough hard disk, so the crunching will continue.

Thanks again to all, and see you guys in a few days !-)


I can't believe you burned one of my babies alive! crying!

who?
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Message 613655 - Posted: 2 Aug 2007, 21:40:09 UTC - in response to Message 613224.  

(Now that the headache's gone, I'm able to type properly...)

There's no "shrine" page planned as it might not yet be needed. I don't remember what exactly what was said (I was distracted from the conversation between toasts to St. SCSI of a'Stiction and an philosophical debate on byte-order) but a friend of mine insisted that I hold onto the rig until he could check it out. He's the most x86-savvy guy I know, so either he'll make use of whatever parts remain, or I'll have to pay the next bar tab (I hope he meant exclusive-or and not inclusive-or which is a very meta statement in and of itself).

In any event, I have an x86-based PC/104 SBC on its way and a Power Mac 9600 that's finally got a large enough hard disk, so the crunching will continue.

Thanks again to all, and see you guys in a few days !-)


Oh, I see.

So, what will the corpse be? Organ donor or reincarnated?




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Message 613806 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 1:55:10 UTC

It's suffered enough, put it out of it's misery.



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Message 614976 - Posted: 4 Aug 2007, 19:31:06 UTC
Last modified: 4 Aug 2007, 19:32:17 UTC

First let me say that even though the hangover's gone, my wallet still hurts. Second, the explanation I was given doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm not one to argue with someone better versed in x86 than I about Intel hardware.

We began gutting the box since I could still put various parts to use, but as we got to the Northwood my friend stopped dead in his tracks. After a little poking and prodding he came to the following conclusion: the guys I hired to put the box together were overly generous with the thermal paste, and that the scorching weather caused the paste to "liquify" and come into contact with the pins on the underside of the CPU.

I wasn't 100% satisfied with this reasoning (I had to question his sobriety). It did explained the 'puter poot, but I still can't figure out why this hadn't happened last summer. We cleaned out the socket, removed the paste on the motherboard, swapped processors and BIOS chips (Flashus interruptus - messy, but it worked!), put the heatsink back on, and the next thing you know it's asking for an operating system.

At this point my friend turns to me and says "You're paying the bar tab", but before I could say "Yay!" it turned off again! He looked stumped, but I dropped into BIOS, turned on spread spectrum and set thermal throttling to 50% (just to play it safe) and restarted.

The good news is that she hasn't shut down automagically since; the bad news, the bar tab !-D
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Message 615456 - Posted: 5 Aug 2007, 21:56:59 UTC - in response to Message 614976.  
Last modified: 5 Aug 2007, 21:57:37 UTC

First let me say that even though the hangover's gone, my wallet still hurts. Second, the explanation I was given doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm not one to argue with someone better versed in x86 than I about Intel hardware.

We began gutting the box since I could still put various parts to use, but as we got to the Northwood my friend stopped dead in his tracks. After a little poking and prodding he came to the following conclusion: the guys I hired to put the box together were overly generous with the thermal paste, and that the scorching weather caused the paste to "liquify" and come into contact with the pins on the underside of the CPU.

I wasn't 100% satisfied with this reasoning (I had to question his sobriety). It did explained the 'puter poot, but I still can't figure out why this hadn't happened last summer. We cleaned out the socket, removed the paste on the motherboard, swapped processors and BIOS chips (Flashus interruptus - messy, but it worked!), put the heatsink back on, and the next thing you know it's asking for an operating system.

At this point my friend turns to me and says "You're paying the bar tab", but before I could say "Yay!" it turned off again! He looked stumped, but I dropped into BIOS, turned on spread spectrum and set thermal throttling to 50% (just to play it safe) and restarted.

The good news is that she hasn't shut down automagically since; the bad news, the bar tab !-D


So you say that all she needed was a brain transplant and a little TLC, and now she's in recovery? That is truly a happy ending. Congratulations. I'm sure she'll serve you with love many years more.


As for the bar tab, well, was it higher than what a new computer would cost you? You know that there are expenses connected with having females in your life, and since you know you get way more back for than what you pay, you really shouldn't complain. Females are wise to invest in. So be happy that you got her back again. Remember your grief when you thought you had to bury her.


So, let us know when she's back crunching again. :-)


"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

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