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MrGray
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Message 608629 - Posted: 25 Jul 2007, 21:53:37 UTC

Loose Change Movie

1 hour 29 mins 22 secs



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Message 608696 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 0:31:51 UTC

As an aviation enthusiast and a plane mechanic I can honestly say that most of what is said about the planes is true.

I will post more on this later.

~BoB

P.S. Personally I prefer the 1st edition better.
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Message 608719 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 0:59:30 UTC

Thank you, popandbob,

I haven't seen the first, and have only seen a part of the second. I have no opinions but have noticed many anomalies.

Never heard that Osama was cared for at a US hospital around the time of the attack. Could be hearsay for all I know.



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Message 608747 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 2:40:00 UTC

Thanks for the link, MrGray.
I just have seen the entire movie - well, the version with German subtitles.
It's as moving and disturbing as the first edition which I saw a quite long time ago.

But, what I think is made very good by the producers, it does not say: "look we have the only truth, believe only us", but it says "here are some evidences which led us to question thinks. Investigate by yourself, ask questions and demand answers yourself to get your own conclusion."

This, to tell the truth (and I'm quite sure they showed the truth according to what I read in several online media during the last almost 6 years) and to say then: find out for yourself if this what we showed you is the truth -- this makes them even more credible.
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Message 608751 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 2:52:21 UTC
Last modified: 26 Jul 2007, 2:56:53 UTC

By the way: As a person who've been there earlier, and saw this place myself, I'm interested in what really happened to these fantastic Twin Towers.

In 1991 and in 1994 I was in NYC, and visited the World Trade Center.
I even was on top of one of the towers 13 years ago (actually my 1994 trip throughout the States started on the 25 of July):


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Message 608760 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 3:30:55 UTC

Thank you, Thorin,

We all hope to have answers. Even though the film tried to examine the situation and missing pieces, a maker of the film is now in jail without bail. See link on movie page for more info.




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Message 608783 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 6:35:37 UTC - in response to Message 608760.
Last modified: 26 Jul 2007, 6:38:04 UTC

Thank you, Thorin,

We all hope to have answers. Even though the film tried to examine the situation and missing pieces, a maker of the film is now in jail without bail. See link on movie page for more info.




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Korey Rowe was arrested on the basis of a military arrest warrant Monday for alleged desertion from the US Army. Of course there is no bail set yet... Rowe is being held in Otsego County jail awaiting pickup by US Army officials. The time for bail being set has not yet arrived. In civilian matters, bail is not set until after the arrested person is brought before a judge and officially charged with a crime (arraignment). Since desertion from the US Army is a military crime, Rowe won't be charged until he is brought before the military equivalent of a judge. But, given the nature of the offense Rowe is alleged to have committed (Desertion), he would be a flight risk, so is not likely to get any kind of 'bail'. On the bright side, he probably won't be given a court-martial. Most deserters nowadays are just returned to their units to complete their 'hitch'.

Here is the story

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Message 608795 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 7:14:19 UTC

Would you take the court martial or the hitch completion?
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Message 608808 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 7:43:44 UTC - in response to Message 608795.

Would you take the court martial or the hitch completion?


Neither. If I had been in the military, I wouldn't have deserted.

I can see that some people might have had reason to desert back in the days of 'Nam, but even then I wouldn't have. Back then, there was a draft, and many found themselves in the Army, like-it-or-not, no choice in the matter.

Today, the US Military is 100% volunteer. If you *choose* to enlist, you need to be a 'man' about it, and stick with your choice. Those that desert nowadays made the choice to enlist. Nobody made them do so. They need to honor their commitments, and not run like a frightened rabbit the first time they brown their underpants because someone is shooting at them. Those that desert before their units even go somewhere dangerous have even less of a dishonorable excuse.

The situtation today makes me long for the way things were when my dad told me about the military when he was in WWII, and my granddad told me about it when he was in WWI. They shot deserters back then.

Quite a bit different from today, when at best the deserter gets a few years in prison, and at worst just sent back to their unit. What ever happened to the days when a person kept their commitments out of honor, because their 'word' meant something? Why is it that today, so many feel they can ignore giving their word, ditch their honor, and take off running the first time someone else says 'Boo!' to them? Fsck'in honorless cowards.

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Message 608810 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 7:56:02 UTC
Last modified: 26 Jul 2007, 8:35:28 UTC

Maybe they found out the war was bogus and figured if the leaders of our country were willing to send them to potential death on lies they'd decline to honor their commitment since the government declined their commitment to protect the American public, including them.

But if you had a choice would you choose the CM or the Hitch? Especially considering their unique situation? You made it seem like an easy out to go back to war so I wanted to be clear about that.

Your my friend so don't get me wrong.


I've predicted the return of the draft in the "Political Predictions" thread.

more:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4628461537770214767&q=en




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Message 608897 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 13:54:26 UTC - in response to Message 608795.

Would you take the court martial or the hitch completion?

Finish your enlistment. Completely. Assuming that they offer that. The military justice system is brutal.
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Message 608900 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 14:05:32 UTC - in response to Message 608810.

Maybe they found out the war was bogus and figured if the leaders of our country were willing to send them to potential death on lies they'd decline to honor their commitment since the government declined their commitment to protect the American public, including them.

Jeebus is that naive. Politicians send soldiers to die, period. Generally for bogus "reasons," to use that term lightly. And every single one of them that wasn't drafted knew it, because they've been doing it for generations.

When you volunteer to commit yourself to an organization that is designed solely to efficiently kill and break things on the order of the commander in chief, you have effectively given up your right to pick and choose when and where you'll offer those services. You aren't contracting to wash someone's car.

You volunteered, you knew what you were volunteering for, you demonstrated that any number of times with the oath, the forms you sign, and the actions you took. That is why they no longer have the right to decide "the war was bogus," generally they all are. Trying then to take the coward's way out is the weak and criminal.

"Judge, send them back to their combat units, because the Iraqi's are getting smart... lots of them end up dead, with an American M-16 round in their back. I don't know how that keeps happening, but it does."
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Message 608942 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 16:19:49 UTC

Naive sounds right,

Still hard for me to accept.




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Message 608989 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 18:11:08 UTC

What's hard for you to accept about expecting men and women to complete the jobs they volunteered to perform and holding them legally responsible for breeching the contract they signed of their own freewill?
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Message 609008 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 18:30:17 UTC

Rush:

Jeebus is that naive. Politicians send soldiers to die, period. Generally for bogus "reasons," to use that term lightly. And every single one of them that wasn't drafted knew it, because they've been doing it for generations.


Me:

Naive sounds right,

Still hard for me to accept.



Stopping in and typing without reading is a bad thing. Apology?



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Message 609009 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 18:31:00 UTC

Breech of contract is a punishable offense at all levels and your "acceptance" is irrelevant.
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Message 609012 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 18:32:02 UTC

lol
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Message 609015 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 18:33:56 UTC

I see, expecting a man to complete a job is a joke in your opinion, right?

I bet you vote Democrat too, huh?
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Message 609029 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 18:40:51 UTC - in response to Message 609008.

Rush:

Jeebus is that naive. Politicians send soldiers to die, period. Generally for bogus "reasons," to use that term lightly. And every single one of them that wasn't drafted knew it, because they've been doing it for generations.


Me:

Naive sounds right,

Still hard for me to accept.



Stopping in and typing without reading is a bad thing. Apology?



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Message 609202 - Posted: 26 Jul 2007, 21:32:04 UTC - in response to Message 608989.

What's hard for you to accept about expecting men and women to complete the jobs they volunteered to perform and holding them legally responsible for breeching the contract they signed of their own freewill?


Even in military service there are laws to uphold and situations where you are forced to disobey your superior. It's much more easier to talk about a single issue, but someone might argue about the whole assignment. There are rules how to handle such situations, though (not saying that there are usually big chances of success, though) and desertion is not an option, that's true.

KWSN - MajorKong, your posts are usually pretty interesting and intelligent. Just don't get why you call the iraq deserters cowards. There are for sure some cowards amongst them, but you should not generalize. In fact I think that you should enlist and try it out yourself. Come back and speak of cowards again and I will respect your opinion. And yes, I have served - stayed even a year longer to make my "officer of the reserve".


I bet you vote Democrat too, huh?

BrainSmashR, just assuming you are one of that conservative, patriotic guys like myself. But if you really love your country you need to make sure no one is just abusing it for it's personal profit (even if he is the president and claims so)and the values the US were built upon are still valid. Elsewise that Democrat fighting for the US to stay the way it was meant to be is more of a patriot then you are. No insult intended, just think about it.

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