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AMERICA: Income taxes ILLEGAL?
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MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173 1 hour 51 mins "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
thorin belvrog Send message Joined: 29 Sep 06 Posts: 6418 Credit: 8,893 RAC: 0 |
Here you can find a trailer of and information about "AMERICA: Freedom To Fascism." In her review, Devra Hill wrote: I don't know anyone who enjoys paying income taxes but most people think it's the law. This eye-opening film exposes the fact that there is no law saying the average American citizen has to pay income taxes. Aaron Russo is an award winning filmmaker who produced "The Rose" and "Trading Places." Recently, he decided to discover the truth behind this "no law" rumor concerning the ratification of the 16th Amendment also known as the "Tax Amendment." Account frozen... |
MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
The entire movie: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173 http://www.freedomtofascism.com 1 hr 51 min 16 sec - May 5, 2007 www.freedomtofascism.com . "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
Not the entire movie. Sorry Enough to get the wheels turning, though. Keppler: I meant that this should be enough to get you thinking. "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
Overview/director interview: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3254488777215293198 "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
John McLeod VII Send message Joined: 15 Jul 99 Posts: 24806 Credit: 790,712 RAC: 0 |
This theory has been tested in court several times. The IRS always wins, and the consequences for those that attempt to not pay taxes are fairly severe. BOINC WIKI |
MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
Not if everyone stands up. Divided we get the shaft. Is "Home of the brave" as false as, "Land of the free?" See: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=40927 "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
Rush Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3131 Credit: 302,569 RAC: 0 |
Not if everyone stands up. Hmmmm, if everyone "stands up," and doesn't pay their taxes, how are you and Moore going to fund your precious "free" health care system? Cordially, Rush elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com Remove the obvious... |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, this is getting good..... heh heh heh.... The Federal Income Tax *is* expressly forbidden under the original US Constitution. Yes, there had to be an Amendment to the Constitution to explicitly authorize it. Down through the years, I have heard that there are questions as to whether or not that Amendment was actually and correctly ratified. But, you know what? It just doesn't matter. Down through the years since the Income Tax started, there have been many, many court challenges to its validity. Without exception, these cases have been decided in favor of the Income Tax. As far as the court system in the US is concerned, that Amendment is valid and the Income Tax is legal, and in this case thats the ONLY thing that matters. The IRS is an evil organization, I will grant you that. If the IRS has a problem with what tax you have (or have not) paid, you don't get a trial in a regular court. It goes before 'Tax Court'. The Judge and all the Lawyers in Tax Court are IRS employees. There is no jury. You don't have very much in the way of rights of appeal to the regular judicial court system. To put it bluntly, you are screwed. The IRS has the power and authority to, at will, seize any and all of your assets, and to have you jailed for LONG periods of time. Remember, they didn't 'get' Al Capone on charges of him being a thief, murderer, mafia boss, or bootlegger. Al Capone was 'got' on Tax Evasion charges, and spent the rest of his life in jail. In the case of a nationwide Tax Protest, the IRS wouldn't need to have all of us jailed. All they would need to do would be to start jailing people and seizing their assets. When the IRS gave enough people 'the Treatment', the rest of the American People would fall in line and start paying again. I'm sorry to have to admit this, but the American People have precious little in the way of 'balls' anymore. And the Federal Government, upon seeing its 'money source' threatened, would give the IRS even more powers and authorities to do evil upon the citizens. Even if everyone in the USA managed to stand united against the IRS, the Federal Government would shut down most of its payments. There would be severe economic hardship, as millions of senior citizens and disabled people failed to get their SocSec checks, for instance. It would be an unmitigated economic disaster. The only way to change things is to get another Constitutional Amendment repealing the Income Tax. But that is about as likely to happen as cheese is to sprout wings and fly. The most common way of Amending the Constitution requires congress to propose the Amendment, and enough of the State Legislatures to ratify it. Well, Congress is not likely to want to give up not only their main cash cow, but also their primary tool for 'social engineering'. And the State Governments all currently get Federal Funds as a large percentage of their budgets. I seriously doubt that many State Legislatures would vote to ratify an amendment repealing the Federal Income Tax. The states then would have to raise their own taxes to make up for the revenue shortfall, a move that would be very unpopular indeed with that state's voters. So, is the Income Tax & the IRS legal? The US Federal courts say it is. Can anything be done about it? Not a dang thing. Similarly, the Federal Reserve system in this country does not appear to pass Constitutional muster. However, the Federal Court system has time and time again ruled it constitutional and legal. You aren't going to be able to get anything done about that either. The Federal Reserve system allows the Government to create new money 'at will' so that Congress could spend it. Congress is not going to want to give that up. So, the Federal Income Tax is not constitutional under the original Constitution, but the Constitution was amended to allow for it. The Federal Reserve system does not appear to be constitutional, but the Government doesn't care. You are not going to get anything done about either of these. Why waste your time worrying about them? |
AC Send message Joined: 22 Jan 05 Posts: 3413 Credit: 119,579 RAC: 0 |
Not if everyone stands up. That's a separate argument that doesn't address the constitutionality of income taxes. While there is no doubt that the government would lose the ability to pay for a lot of things if they didn't have the money from income taxes, it's not a right reason for the law (?) itself. When the Federal Government collects income taxes, it is infact seizing something that belongs to you. Something that you've earned. Otherwise the money that you earned and put in your bank/house isn't really yours. Think about it: You are actually being told by the goverment that you owe them money and must pay them or else you'll go to jail. |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
the Federal Income Tax is not constitutional under the original Constitution, but the Constitution was amended to allow for it. Yet another distortion of our founding fathers original vision... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Rush Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3131 Credit: 302,569 RAC: 0 |
That's a separate argument that doesn't address the constitutionality of income taxes. Which, of course, is why I wasn't addressing the constitutionality of income taxes. I was pointing out the glaring inconsistency. While there is no doubt that the government would lose the ability to pay for a lot of things if they didn't have the money from income taxes, it's not a right reason for the law (?) itself. I have no idea what the second half of this means. There is more to U.S. law than the Constitution, which in fact only regulates gov't conduct. When the Federal Government collects income taxes, it is infact seizing something that belongs to you. Something that you've earned. Otherwise the money that you earned and put in your bank/house isn't really yours. Think about it: You are actually being told by the goverment that you owe them money and must pay them or else you'll go to jail. Duh. That's the whole point. You can't advocate a "free," or "universal" health care system, and then crab about taxes. They're mutually exclusive. Cordially, Rush elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com Remove the obvious... |
AC Send message Joined: 22 Jan 05 Posts: 3413 Credit: 119,579 RAC: 0 |
That's a separate argument that doesn't address the constitutionality of income taxes. First. In the second half of the sentence, I was referring to laws not being right according the Constitution. Specifically, under Article One, Section 9. I disagree that the two issues, the constitutionality of income taxes, and a "free" or "universal" health care system, are mutually exclusive. Again, the two are separate issues. EDIT: However, I do understand how "universal" health care would benefit from income tax. Obviously. |
Darth Dogbytes™ Send message Joined: 30 Jul 03 Posts: 7512 Credit: 2,021,148 RAC: 0 |
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! I have heard all the arguements myself, and if I may say so, your writing is spot on and lucid; the simple distallation of the facts as they are in real life. Account frozen... |
Rush Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3131 Credit: 302,569 RAC: 0 |
First. In the second half of the sentence, I was referring to laws not being right according the Constitution. Specifically, under Article One, Section 9. I don't know what to tell you, U.S. law is also created in other ways beyond the Constitution, and the Constitution is subject to interpretation. I disagree that the two issues, the constitutionality of income taxes, and a "free" or "universal" health care system, are mutually exclusive. Again, the two are separate issues. They are separate issues, of course. However one cannot be consistent in supporting a program that could only be paid for by massive tax increases, and then advocate that taxes themselves are illegal and should not be paid. In that sense they are mutually exclusive because without the tax revenue, there could be no "free" health care. Cordially, Rush elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com Remove the obvious... |
MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
Compelling, KWSN - MajorKong, But I believe you made a mistake. I'll work on prema facia evidence, as I'm sure you will. (Hope you will.) :) . "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
Compelling, KWSN - MajorKong, Please tell me, MrGray, what was my mistake? I am interested in hearing your evidence. If I turn out to be wrong, I will be among the first to admit it. |
AC Send message Joined: 22 Jan 05 Posts: 3413 Credit: 119,579 RAC: 0 |
Yes, but I would hope that any U.S. law is also constitutional as well. While some things in the Constitution could be considered somewhat more difficult to interpret than others, it is mostly very clearly worded. Especially when it comes to the limits that are placed on the power of Congress.
I suppose that the people who are making the case for "free" health care would probably invision the money to pay for it coming mostly from income tax revenue. But I personally don't think it would be the only way to achieve something very close to that. Without income taxes, it will be much easier for many more people to pay for their own health insurance because they'll end up with more money. |
MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
Working on it. :) Compelling, KWSN - MajorKong, "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
MrGray Send message Joined: 17 Aug 05 Posts: 3170 Credit: 60,411 RAC: 0 |
All of my posts here are in the form of questions. I have never been political and am prone to make mistakes similar to those of younger persons. I have used catch phrases and promises of payment for proof against because I don't know for sure. I will debate with you but there are always two sides to every story. I may very well be wrong in much, if not all of what I post but can only learn by having people respond to my posts. I am not anti American. I am not a Communist sympathizer. I'm just looking for answers to my questions. I don't want to fight with anyone for any reason, though I can be grumpy when attacked. I realize many people can't help me in this quest for knowledge and can't put down in writing what I'm looking for, but you must realize I am not an enemy. I love my country. Otherwise I wouldn't question things. . "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
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