http://www.exoticworldart.com/ufodbase/index.php?board=27.0

I agree,

Thank goodness more and more organic operations are opening up. But, I live in California where more people know what's up.

Beyond the hurendous treatment of animals in the proccess is the danger to the GP who chow down on it with eyes wide shut. Just like I did.

As far as 'organic' produce goes, be careful. Too many companies play fast and loose with the term. The best source of 'organic' produce is if you know (and trust) a farmer that uses these methods. Barring that, if one has the time and room, one can grow a lot oneself. The 'salad vegetables' for instance, are relatively easy to grow. Many others are not that hard to grow either. Purchasing organic (or indeed any) produce at a market should be one's last resort. You not only have to trust the market, but the market's distributors and so on back the chain to the grower. Remember, you don't really know where that supermarket spud has been, even IF it is labeled 'organic'.

Everything changed into heartless, efficient "meat and milk production", no real farming anymore.

No rituals about these vids, although that is an interesting interpretation I'll have to chew on. (No pun intended.) Just corporate America squeezing pennies out of the equation.

I don't know if I can bear to watch another movie like those but will try for you and report soon.

Thanks Fuzzy Noodle

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

No rituals about these vids, although that is an interesting interpretation I'll have to chew on. (No pun intended.) Just corporate America squeezing pennies out of the equation.

I don't know if I can bear to watch another movie like those but will try for you and report soon.

Thanks Fuzzy Noodle

You don't have to. It's disturbing enough that those slaughter houses exists, where they don't shoot the animals before slaughter. I won't comment at all about the ritual slaughters, except I don't buy meat from a halal slaughter here, even they say the meat is better and cheaper.

I eat meat, but I prefer that the animal has been killed in "humane" ways, mostly shot with a bolt pistol in the head before slaughtering. Hunters don't always kill their game in first shot, but usually they are shot and die very soon after.

Here chicken are being killed with electricity before slaughtered. I try to buy meat where I know how the animal has been killed.

But I am horrified by that attitude people seem to have to animals, here there are cases in the press where animals are being transported 500 - 1000 kilometers for being slaughtered, because it's cheaper than slaughter them here at local slaughter houses. They are being transported without any rest, water, or food, and lots of them have already died when they arrive. That is a scandal!

No rituals about these vids, although that is an interesting interpretation I'll have to chew on. (No pun intended.) Just corporate America squeezing pennies out of the equation.

I don't know if I can bear to watch another movie like those but will try for you and report soon.

Thanks Fuzzy Noodle

You don't have to. It's disturbing enough that those slaughter houses exists, where they don't shoot the animals before slaughter. I won't comment at all about the ritual slaughters, except I don't buy meat from a halal slaughter here, even they say the meat is better and cheaper.

I eat meat, but I prefer that the animal has been killed in "humane" ways, mostly shot with a bolt pistol in the head before slaughtering. Hunters don't always kill their game in first shot, but usually they are shot and die very soon after.

Here chicken are being killed with electricity before slaughtered. I try to buy meat where I know how the animal has been killed.

But I am horrified by that attitude people seem to have to animals, here there are cases in the press where animals are being transported 500 - 1000 kilometers for being slaughtered, because it's cheaper than slaughter them here at local slaughter houses. They are being transported without any rest, water, or food, and lots of them have already died when they arrive. That is a scandal!

I'm a tree hugging animal lover,

I'm trying to go vegan but it's hard breaking old habits and facilitating the life style when I visit non vegan friends so much. I'll get there soon.

Chickens have it bad here in America. I have a hard time with this having had many friends/pets being birds. All animals are intelligent. Our DNA's show the truth of our extended family here on our little blue marble; Earth.

It pains me.

I think many beans and legumes will cover the aminos,

I switched to soy milk and lost 10 pounds over the last few weeks. Down to 290 now, which is average for a 6'3" polynesian. lol

Thanks for the tips. I will certainly keep them in mind before jumping off the animal cracker boat express!

.

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

I'm a tree hugging animal lover,

I'm trying to go vegan but it's hard breaking old habits and facilitating the life style when I visit non vegan friends so much. I'll get there soon.

Chickens have it bad here in America. I have a hard time with this having had many friends/pets being birds. All animals are intelligent. Our DNA's show the truth of our extended family here on our little blue marble; Earth.

It pains me.

I applaud your (and Jeffrey's) stated desire to avoid eating animal products. In my opinion, the average American eats way too much meat.

That said, I must caution you about totally eliminating animal products from your diet. As far as I know, there is only one plant-based source of protein that is 'complete'. And it is a Genetically Modified variety of Black Bean.

Our bodies can manufacture most of the amino acids from other amino acids. However, there are 4 amino acids (if I remember correctly) that we cannot manufacture. Also important are the ratios of the relative abundance of the various amino acids in our diets. To make the average human tissue, we require that the amino acids in our diets to be at least close to certain ratio values. If we run out of one (or more) amino acids during protein synthesis in our bodies, it tends to waste good portions of the others.

Animal proteins are complete and are somewhat close to the correct ratios already. As I stated previously, the only single plant-based protein source (that I have heard about) that is complete and anywhere near being balanced is that one GM variety of black bean. There may be others now, but I will almost guarantee you that they will be GM as well. With plants and protein completeness, many plants with appreciable amounts of protein might have one or two of the 'essential 4' amino acids, but lack the others. Eating plant-derived protein only will require you to juggle various sources to make sure that all the essential amino acids are present, and that the protein consumed is at least near the ratio values that it should be.

I would strongly advise you to not go totally vegan, but to supplement your mostly vegan diet with somewhat reduced numbers of servings of healthy animal-based protein sources, at least 2 or 3 servings a week, perhaps as many as 1 serving a day (depending on your age, fitness level, and activity level). However, if you wish to go totally vegan, you must take stock of what vegetable foods are available at what times of the year in your area. Then, spend a little money and go find a registered dietitian/nutritionist to help you design a diet that will provide complete proteins in the proper ratios, and also take care of all your other nutritional needs. Avoid mass market 'self-help' books. Not all of them are on the level, and those that are might require something in your diet that might not be available for much of the year in your area. Its much better to trust a duly educated and licensed professional in your area.

One thing that I *will* guarantee about being vegan is that, sooner or later, your diet will become somewhat boring. I know. I tried this out for myself about 27 years ago. It lasted about 6 months before I went crazy and raided the local Burger King. But, even today, I don't consume near as much animal products as the average American. But, dangit! I still like the occasional burger or steak.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of success at it.